Britain's greatest pianist.

[ahinton]

Here is a quote from Ian Pace regarding the difficulty of Sorabji:

"While I am not familiar with the work "Symphonic Variations" of his [Sorabji's] pieces than I have seen I do not see any technical difficulties that could not be easily overcome"

The only piece I have EVER heard Ian Pace say was too hard was Vinko Globokar's "Notes".  Finnissy Solo Concerto No. 4, Barrett Tract, Xenakis Synaphai, Barlow Cogluotobusletismesi etc are completely playable, Sorabji is easy.

For Ian Pace, and only Ian Pace.

Whilst there can be no question that Ian Pace would be expected to have a view of the difficulties or otherwise (for him) involved in performing Sorabji's music, it is perhaps also worth noting that he has never performed any in public (as far as I know) and none appears on his repertoire list; however, he has, I think, played all the other works you mention above (except, I think, the Barlow, although I'm not sure about that).

Did Ian Pace actually say (or write) that "Sorabji is easy" (even to him)?

Best,

Alistair

[opus10no2]

From the evidence I have thus far witnessed; Pace is an astounding sight-reader, but not much above average dextral proficiency.

Pace may be very well endowed, but regretably not pysically.

[arensky]

i havent heard much from this pianist. ive only heard his balakirev, rimsky-korsakov, and harty concertos, and i can honestly say that its some of the worst playing ive ever heard. for one, he doesnt put a lot of passion into what he plays. also, his playing is extremely uneven. is there sometihng im missing out on that he absolutely owns? every pianist has at least one piece that he/she owns, i would hope.

I have all those records, and on vinyl Medtner Sonatas, Piano Quintet and best of all Gershwin's Concerto in F, the most unique, fastest and for me the best performance of that piece I've ever heard. I love his tone, it's beautiful, and I don't find his playing passionless.

Uneven how? In interpetation, technique or literaly that the hands are not together? I will listen to his Balakirev and Rimsky-Rorsakov, AND Igor Zhukov's for a comparison. Ah will be back with the results.

At any rate my other choice would have been Stephen Hough, but he sometimes seems facile to me, like he's sightreading. I think playing's very easy for him, that's his strength and his weakness.

ALL TIME (since recorded sound): Myra Hess

What does anyone else think of Malcom Binns, anyone heard him live? I've always wanted to.

[bflatminor24]

LOL

Best Living British Pianist: Ian Pace
Best British Pianist: Ian Pace
Best Living Pianist: Ian Pace
Best Pianist of all time: Ian Pace


Ok, first off, Hamelin is not anywhere near Ian Pace, Aki Takahashi, Jonathan Powell, Fredrik Ullen, Nicholas Hodges, Mark Knoop, Michael Finnissy etc.  These pianists are sick freaks of nature that God put on this Earth just to remind us how much we all suck compared to them.  Also, Hamelin is not the technique machine that Ian Pace is; I have videos of Hamelin missing notes in SCALES.  Second off, I would like to say that all of these comments about Pace's playing having no "emotion" or "substance" are just... well I personally find them nothing but hilarious.  Have any of you guys heard ANYTHING of his besides some Ferneyhough, Dench and Finnissy?  Because I've got some of his Sciarrino and Prokofiev that is nothing less than LUSH.  Raging jealousy is where these baseless comments come from, I presume.  Some highlights from Ian Pace's repertoire:

Everything.  You think I'm kidding?  He has, in his repertoire, something like 500 hours of music, including Xenakis, COMPLETE Finnissy, COMPLETE Ferneyhough, Hoban's "When the Panting STARTS", Dillon's Books of Elements and tons of other super-impossible stuff.  He can also whip out Alkan's "Comme le Vent" at tempo; Hamelin can not.

Over 100 world premieres of the biggest composers.  Finnissy, Ferneyhough, Rzewski, Skempton etc.

Ok and get this.  Ian Pace gave the world premiere of one of Jonathan Powell's compositions.


Here is a quote from Ian Pace regarding the difficulty of Sorabji:

"While I am not familiar with the work "Symphonic Variations" of his [Sorabji's] pieces than I have seen I do not see any technical difficulties that could not be easily overcome"


On Martino's "Pianississimo":

"This is most likely the most difficult piece written by an American composer, but is not particularly difficult compared to those of many of his European contemporaries."

On Flynn's "Trinity":

"This [Trinity] piece is of course difficult, but I would not class it as transcendentally so."

Similar quotes available for Stockhausen's Klavierstuck X and Xenakis' "Herma"- Musique Symbolique.



The only piece I have EVER heard Ian Pace say was too hard was Vinko Globokar's "Notes".  Finnissy Solo Concerto No. 4, Barrett Tract, Xenakis Synaphai, Barlow Cogluotobusletismesi etc are completely playable, Sorabji is easy.



For Ian Pace, and only Ian Pace.

I love reading Soliloquy's posts because they inspire a kind of unparalleled hilarity. John's description of Pace seemingly indicates his ardent obsession of technical difficulty over musical substance, and his extolment of Ian Pace borderlines on fellatio.

First of all, Hamelin's technique is inferior to none. Yes I have seen videos of him missing notes (e.g. Alkan Symphony Finale, Quasi-Faust). This doesn't inspire doubt in his abilities. He has an enormous repertoire (which to my knowledge is unrivaled) and his recordings are some of the most fluid and yet expressive in existence.

I also do not doubt the technical faculties of pianists like Powell, Finnissy, Takahashi, and Ullen. They are incredible at what they do and from what I have heard, possess similar techniques.

The only part I find somewhat disturbing in your once again ostentatious judgment of difficulty is how you value music written for its difficulty (which is inherently an inane value) and idolize pianists who build reputations for playing this music. Personally I find Pace's recordings to be wonderful, but not to the point of making me ejaculate, as implied in your post.

I place a special value on pianists who can bring warmth and inspiration to the audience through the music they play. Pianists with golden interpretative styles, such as Gould, Rubinstein, Richter, Ogdon, Goode, and Perahia.

As a last point of rhetoric for the nay-sayers out there who are still convinced Pace is the paragon of pianism, consider this:

1. Why don't pianists like Pace record Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Schubert? If they are so incredible, wouldn't their recordings of these composers' music stand out?
2. As speculation, I doubt any of these technical giants could come close to someone like Richard Goode, who has perfected his clarity and musicianship in his playing of Beethoven and Mozart. Goode's recording of the complete Beethoven sonatas is exemplary and is revered as the greatest interpretation of Beethoven's music.

~Max~

[leahcim]

This all seems very much like a case of what in UK is called "making a mountain out of a molehill"

Mea culpa, I forgot how small your world is. Those 2 posts must look really big and scary like a big mountain from there

[soliloquy]

Ok.

To quote my self:

I think Vinko Globokar's "Notes" was pretty easy, didn`t give me any problems at all.

John Knutsens "Havfrueherrens mystiske færder med hans eller hennes spøkelsesskip på alle de ni blå hav" on the other hand was too hard.

I guess I am a better pianist than Ian Pace

Pluss his repertoire list doesn`t say that he even can play some of the pieces you mentioned.

You might also notice that his repertoire list on his website has not been updated since 2004.  Forgive my scepticism, but did you honestly find Globokar's "Notes" easy?  I have the sheet music in my possession; were the four simultaneous cluster ostinatos not a problem for you?  If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a few questions about the piece, simply to verify your statement please.  First, what is the full name of the piece?  Second, why is the piece named that?  Third, please describe the pedalling in this piece briefly.  Fourth, how many staves is the opening measure on?  Fifth, what is the opening key signature?  Sorry to bog you down with this silliness, but I am simply unable to believe that anyone would find this piece easy; also, our past discussions on MSN messenger make me even more suspicious, considering some of the things you have told me about pieces you are working on, what you are having difficulty with etc.  Assuming you are the same "Mephisto" from PF, of course.  Assuming this was meant as sarcasm, the only possible explanation I can come up with that you would find these comments suspect is that you failed to read the rest of my post.

Whilst there can be no question that Ian Pace would be expected to have a view of the difficulties or otherwise (for him) involved in performing Sorabji's music, it is perhaps also worth noting that he has never performed any in public (as far as I know) and none appears on his repertoire list; however, he has, I think, played all the other works you mention above (except, I think, the Barlow, although I'm not sure about that).

Did Ian Pace actually say (or write) that "Sorabji is easy" (even to him)?

Best,

Alistair

You are correct; he has not played that particular piece by Clarence Barlow, although he has expressed interest in learning it, but from what I understand it is not on his list of priorities at the moment; he equates its difficulty to slightly about Zimmermann's (Walter, not B. A.) Wunsterwanderung.  Yes, in email correspondence I have had with him, I had asked him what he thought of Sorabji, and if he would classify his music in the same league of technical difficulty to that of the New Complexity composers.  That is a direct quote; it may be slightly out of context though, because I believe he was saying it was easy compared to some works he had cited earlier like the Barlow, Barrett, Globokar etc.  I don't think your aim in saying that he hasn't performed any Sorabji works is to insinuate that he can't play them, but just in case someone might take it that way, from what I understand he simply does not like a lot of Sorabji's music.

From the evidence I have thus far witnessed; Pace is an astounding sight-reader, but not much above average dextral proficiency.

Pace may be very well endowed, but regretably not pysically.

This seems to be what a lot of people who are not familiar with a larger body of Ian's work tell themselves; I suppose it is the most logical explanation for having such a rediculous repertoire    But I can say with full assuredness that neither his technique NOR his musicianship are lacking, the former being rather terrifyingly near-perfect.

I love reading Soliloquy's posts because they inspire a kind of unparalleled hilarity. John's description of Pace seemingly indicates his ardent obsession of technical difficulty over musical substance, and his extolment of Ian Pace borderlines on fellatio.

Thank you for being so courteous and pleasant; it makes you look like an intelligent person whose opinions count for something.  First off, I am glad you enjoy reading my posts.  I aim to please.  I find it rather interesting that you abase an interest in technical proficiency in a thread devoted to determining who is the best pianist from Britain; I suppose if I had chose someone with very little technical prowess I wouldn't have to be wasting my time with you, correct?  Perhaps I personally believe that a pianist who can play Alkan's Comme le Vent at the marked tempo, a feat which the pianist you will then proceed to "extol on the borderline of fellatio" (very classy) can not do, may indeed deserve just as much admiration as being able to play a Chopin Nocturne full of passion, but of course, my personal opinion must simply be wrong, because it is in contradiction with yours.

First of all, Hamelin's technique is inferior to none. Yes I have seen videos of him missing notes (e.g. Alkan Symphony Finale, Quasi-Faust). This doesn't inspire doubt in his abilities. He has an enormous repertoire (which to my knowledge is unrivaled) and his recordings are some of the most fluid and yet expressive in existence.

Hamelin's technique is inferior to Ian Pace's, which you admitted to through insinuation (albeit probably by mistake) in the previous quotation from you.  Might I ask how seeing Hamelin miss notes in simple passages in works of Alkan does not make you question his technique in comparison to that of Ian Pace, who can be seen not missing notes in the immensely much more difficult Etude No. 4 by Pascal Dusapin?  I am not going to say that Hamelin's technique is anything less than spectacular, but considering the evidence I have presented of Ian Pace's dominance compared to the substanceless fan gushing you have presented in Hamelin's name, I'm sure you must be right.  If YOU would like to present various evidence that Hamelin does have the superior technique, I would be open to hearing and considering it, but as of yet you have failed to do so.  It is true that Hamelin possesses a massive repertoire, but the comment "which to my knowledge is unrivaled" I find somewhat confusing, considering the fact that the other pianist (IE Ian Pace) in question does have a larger and more diverse repertoire than Hamelin, if I am not mistaken, although I could be.  If you intend to respond to this, would you be willing to show evidence to support your claim that Hamelin possesses a larger repertoire than Ian Pace?  I agree that his recordings (almost all of them) are incredibly expressive and fluid, but I would also say that Ian Pace's are similarly, particularly some of his recordings of the less avant-garde works like Sciarrino's.

The only part I find somewhat disturbing in your once again ostentatious judgment of difficulty is how you value music written for its difficulty (which is inherently an inane value) and idolize pianists who build reputations for playing this music. Personally I find Pace's recordings to be wonderful, but not to the point of making me ejaculate, as implied in your post.

I'm sorry, but your misuse of the word "ostentatious" and the grammar errors in this make it difficult for me to understand what you're trying to say, because not only is the grammar completely botched, but it doesn't seem to reference anything where it should.  I assume you are trying to say something along the lines of:

"The only part in your post that I find somewhat disturbing is how you seem to place emphasis on only the technical aspects of a piece when referring to the difficulty of proper execution of the work in question, when obviously there are other facets that must be examined when determining how difficult it would be to effectively perform a piece."

This is correct; indeed there are musical implications in the determining of the difficulty of a piece of music.  What I find disturbing in your post is that you seem to be under the (mis)impression that Ian Pace does not have any musical ability whatsoever, but is simply a note machine.  You also seem to be attempting to insinuate that the pieces Ian Pace plays most commonly do not require the musical skills necessary in works Hamelin plays, which is rather misguided.

I am glad you enjoy Pace's playing, and I am also glad that it does not make you ejaculate; no pianist should make you cream your pants, except possibly Helene Grimaud and the young Mikhail Pletnev depending on your orientation.  Might I ask where exactly in my post I "implied" that Ian Pace should cause people to spontaneously cum, because I don't remember doing that.

As a last point of rhetoric for the nay-sayers out there who are still convinced Pace is the paragon of pianism, consider this:

1. Why don't pianists like Pace record Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Schubert? If they are so incredible, wouldn't their recordings of these composers' music stand out?
2. As speculation, I doubt any of these technical giants could come close to someone like Richard Goode, who has perfected his clarity and musicianship in his playing of Beethoven and Mozart. Goode's recording of the complete Beethoven sonatas is exemplary and is revered as the greatest interpretation of Beethoven's music.

Even though this is apparently rhetoric, I will answer it, because its lack of logic needs to be addressed.

1.  How many labels has Ian Pace produced?  Less than 10, to my knowledge; you might also be interested in knowing that most of the composers he records are his personal friends, are of works written for him, are written by his students in the case of Dench, or are recorded in the quest to make this music more accessible.  When in concert, Ian Pace typically performs works from the Romantic, Impressionist and Classical Eras with modern works, and I'm sure if you took the time to look up reviews of his playing of Beethoven, Debussy, Bartok, Liszt etc. you would find not very many people (professional music critics who make a living at knowing what good music is) would agree with your, as you admit, "speculation".

2.  Once again, you make "points" which I assume you wish to be taken seriously, but offer absolutely no evidence to back them up.  If you could produce a horrible recording from Aki or Yuji Takahashi, Ian Pace, Mark Knoop, Jonathan Powell, Nicholas Hodges, John Ogdon or Fredrik Ullen playing Beethoven then your accusation would have merit, but unfortunately it falls short.



In closing, how do you feel about Hamelin's Scriabin Sonatas?

[sevencircles]

and his extolment of Ian Pace borderlines on fellatio.

First of all, Hamelin's technique is inferior to none. Yes I have seen videos of him missing notes (e.g. Alkan Symphony Finale, Quasi-Faust). This doesn't inspire doubt in his abilities. He has an enormous repertoire (which to my knowledge is unrivaled) and his recordings are some of the most fluid and yet expressive in existence.

Looks like yet another "my idol is better then yours discussions"

Hamelin is one of the greatest technical pianists in the world but not impossible to beat and he makes mistakes.

His recorded repertoire is very large (not up to Ashkenazy and Richter yet, though)  and so is his live repertoire.

I don´t think very many people agree that his recordings are the most expressive in existence.

I won´t forgive for him rushing through HR2 by Liszt in particular.

One of the most majestic pianomelodies known to man and he plays it like 

[ahinton]

Mea culpa, I forgot how small your world is. Those 2 posts must look really big and scary like a big mountain from there

No "mea culpa" required. I didn't say that your two posts were "scary" - nor are they so; far from it, indeed. Tthey are merely blathersome. In case you are unaware of it (which I doubt), "making a mountain out of a molehill" does not imply "scariness", merely the attaching of undue importance to something of comparatively little importance and using that as justification for going on and on about it.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

his extolment of Ian Pace borderlines on fellatio.

I think that this is a less than reasonable remark; his extolment of Ian Pace is indeed fervent and consistent, but I'm not sure that it really merits a remark like this.

First of all, Hamelin's technique is inferior to none. Yes I have seen videos of him missing notes (e.g. Alkan Symphony Finale, Quasi-Faust). This doesn't inspire doubt in his abilities. He has an enormous repertoire (which to my knowledge is unrivaled) and his recordings are some of the most fluid and yet expressive in existence.

Hamelin's physical/mental facility at the keyboard is indeed deservedly legendary. His repertoire is undoubtedly large, but Pace's is, frankly, enormous. The fact - and I believe that it is a fact - that Pace's repertoire is larger than Hamelin's is in no sense suggestive of any kind of value judgement of either pianist.

I also do not doubt the technical faculties of pianists like Powell, Finnissy, Takahashi, and Ullen. They are incredible at what they do and from what I have heard, possess similar techniques.

These are all excellent pianists, without a doubt. One of them - Finnissy - has, unlike the others, never really sought first and foremost to pursue a career as a solo pianist and I have never heard him playing Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, etc. (I did, sadly, miss a peformance of Gershwin's Concerto by him several years ago and I'm not aware that he's played it since).

Personally I find Pace's recordings to be wonderful, but not to the point of making me ejaculate, as implied in your post.

Again, as stated above, I don't think that this was - or was intended to be - directly suggested by that post.

Why don't pianists like Pace record Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Schubert? If they are so incredible, wouldn't their recordings of these composers' music stand out?

I'm not sure who else you mean when you write "pianists like Pace"; clearly, you do mean Ian Pace himself, but it is as yet unclear who else you have in mind to place in the same category as you mention here (perhaps you might elucidate). I do not know the answer to your question, so I will not try to pretend that I do - but there are various possibilities; I am not, for example, aware that Mr Pace has ever declined to record the music of any of those composers and, at the same time, I am aware that he has performed some of their works from time to time - not as often as some pianists, of course, but there are only so many hours in the day.

Best,

Alistair

[mephisto]

@soliloquy, I have of course not played the piece, nor have I even heard of the composer or piece. Naturally I used sarcasm. Following your insane logic, the greatest pianist is the one with the largest repertoire or best technic. If I can play a piece more technicly accurate than other doesn't make me a better pianist. Pluss every pianist can play some pieces more accurate than others. Do you think Pace could play every single piece in his repertoire with 100% accuracy?

Second, just because Hamelin have made mistakes in some pieces doesn't mean that his technic is bad. I have live recordings of Hamelin playing harder works than the quasi faust with 100% insane accuracy. Like everybody Hamelin is human, both Hamelin, Pace, me and you do sometimes play better or worse than other times. It is natural.

Third, Ogdon`s Beethoven isn't often not particulary good.

[ian_j]

It is somewhat pointless to argue about this pianist being better than that pianist, just as it is pointless to say that blue is better than green, or 4 is better than 7, or Sunderland AFC are better than Newcastle United (which *IS* true, of course, end of)

I may be in a minority but I go to concerts to hear Brahms, Shostakovich, Bach etc..., not Powell, Pace, Argerich. These superb pianists are projecting the music of others, and it is their music I go to hear, not the technical ability of the pianist.

However, before the flames arrive, some pianists are obviously better than others in certain types of repertoire. It doesn't make them better full stop.

[bflatminor24]

You might also notice that his repertoire list on his website has not been updated since 2004.  Forgive my scepticism, but did you honestly find Globokar's "Notes" easy?  I have the sheet music in my possession; were the four simultaneous cluster ostinatos not a problem for you?  If you don't mind, I'd like to ask a few questions about the piece, simply to verify your statement please.  First, what is the full name of the piece?  Second, why is the piece named that?  Third, please describe the pedalling in this piece briefly.  Fourth, how many staves is the opening measure on?  Fifth, what is the opening key signature?  Sorry to bog you down with this silliness, but I am simply unable to believe that anyone would find this piece easy; also, our past discussions on MSN messenger make me even more suspicious, considering some of the things you have told me about pieces you are working on, what you are having difficulty with etc.  Assuming you are the same "Mephisto" from PF, of course.  Assuming this was meant as sarcasm, the only possible explanation I can come up with that you would find these comments suspect is that you failed to read the rest of my post.



You are correct; he has not played that particular piece by Clarence Barlow, although he has expressed interest in learning it, but from what I understand it is not on his list of priorities at the moment; he equates its difficulty to slightly about Zimmermann's (Walter, not B. A.) Wunsterwanderung.  Yes, in email correspondence I have had with him, I had asked him what he thought of Sorabji, and if he would classify his music in the same league of technical difficulty to that of the New Complexity composers.  That is a direct quote; it may be slightly out of context though, because I believe he was saying it was easy compared to some works he had cited earlier like the Barlow, Barrett, Globokar etc.  I don't think your aim in saying that he hasn't performed any Sorabji works is to insinuate that he can't play them, but just in case someone might take it that way, from what I understand he simply does not like a lot of Sorabji's music.



This seems to be what a lot of people who are not familiar with a larger body of Ian's work tell themselves; I suppose it is the most logical explanation for having such a rediculous repertoire    But I can say with full assuredness that neither his technique NOR his musicianship are lacking, the former being rather terrifyingly near-perfect.


Thank you for being so courteous and pleasant; it makes you look like an intelligent person whose opinions count for something.  First off, I am glad you enjoy reading my posts.  I aim to please.  I find it rather interesting that you abase an interest in technical proficiency in a thread devoted to determining who is the best pianist from Britain; I suppose if I had chose someone with very little technical prowess I wouldn't have to be wasting my time with you, correct?  Perhaps I personally believe that a pianist who can play Alkan's Comme le Vent at the marked tempo, a feat which the pianist you will then proceed to "extol on the borderline of fellatio" (very classy) can not do, may indeed deserve just as much admiration as being able to play a Chopin Nocturne full of passion, but of course, my personal opinion must simply be wrong, because it is in contradiction with yours.


Hamelin's technique is inferior to Ian Pace's, which you admitted to through insinuation (albeit probably by mistake) in the previous quotation from you.  Might I ask how seeing Hamelin miss notes in simple passages in works of Alkan does not make you question his technique in comparison to that of Ian Pace, who can be seen not missing notes in the immensely much more difficult Etude No. 4 by Pascal Dusapin?  I am not going to say that Hamelin's technique is anything less than spectacular, but considering the evidence I have presented of Ian Pace's dominance compared to the substanceless fan gushing you have presented in Hamelin's name, I'm sure you must be right.  If YOU would like to present various evidence that Hamelin does have the superior technique, I would be open to hearing and considering it, but as of yet you have failed to do so.  It is true that Hamelin possesses a massive repertoire, but the comment "which to my knowledge is unrivaled" I find somewhat confusing, considering the fact that the other pianist (IE Ian Pace) in question does have a larger and more diverse repertoire than Hamelin, if I am not mistaken, although I could be.  If you intend to respond to this, would you be willing to show evidence to support your claim that Hamelin possesses a larger repertoire than Ian Pace?  I agree that his recordings (almost all of them) are incredibly expressive and fluid, but I would also say that Ian Pace's are similarly, particularly some of his recordings of the less avant-garde works like Sciarrino's.


I'm sorry, but your misuse of the word "ostentatious" and the grammar errors in this make it difficult for me to understand what you're trying to say, because not only is the grammar completely botched, but it doesn't seem to reference anything where it should.  I assume you are trying to say something along the lines of:

"The only part in your post that I find somewhat disturbing is how you seem to place emphasis on only the technical aspects of a piece when referring to the difficulty of proper execution of the work in question, when obviously there are other facets that must be examined when determining how difficult it would be to effectively perform a piece."

This is correct; indeed there are musical implications in the determining of the difficulty of a piece of music.  What I find disturbing in your post is that you seem to be under the (mis)impression that Ian Pace does not have any musical ability whatsoever, but is simply a note machine.  You also seem to be attempting to insinuate that the pieces Ian Pace plays most commonly do not require the musical skills necessary in works Hamelin plays, which is rather misguided.

I am glad you enjoy Pace's playing, and I am also glad that it does not make you ejaculate; no pianist should make you cream your pants, except possibly Helene Grimaud and the young Mikhail Pletnev depending on your orientation.  Might I ask where exactly in my post I "implied" that Ian Pace should cause people to spontaneously cum, because I don't remember doing that.


Even though this is apparently rhetoric, I will answer it, because its lack of logic needs to be addressed.

1.  How many labels has Ian Pace produced?  Less than 10, to my knowledge; you might also be interested in knowing that most of the composers he records are his personal friends, are of works written for him, are written by his students in the case of Dench, or are recorded in the quest to make this music more accessible.  When in concert, Ian Pace typically performs works from the Romantic, Impressionist and Classical Eras with modern works, and I'm sure if you took the time to look up reviews of his playing of Beethoven, Debussy, Bartok, Liszt etc. you would find not very many people (professional music critics who make a living at knowing what good music is) would agree with your, as you admit, "speculation".

2.  Once again, you make "points" which I assume you wish to be taken seriously, but offer absolutely no evidence to back them up.  If you could produce a horrible recording from Aki or Yuji Takahashi, Ian Pace, Mark Knoop, Jonathan Powell, Nicholas Hodges, John Ogdon or Fredrik Ullen playing Beethoven then your accusation would have merit, but unfortunately it falls short.



In closing, how do you feel about Hamelin's Scriabin Sonatas?

John,

I'll keep it short (something we should all attempt): I find it hypocritical of you when you take my sarcastic rhetoric seriously to the point of argument - obviously you aren't actually fellating Ian Pace. Obviously he doesn't actually make you cream your pants. If you possessed thorough comprehensive reading ability you would have no trouble understanding the message in my post. I was accusing you of valuing technique over interpretation, which I find equally (if not more) important in defining the greatness of a pianist.

Secondly, there was no "botched" grammar. I don't know what compelled you to yet again use pedantry as rebuttal, but it doesn't fly.

Regarding the "greatest pianist" debate, as I said before, I am not doubting the abilities of Ian Pace, and you inaccurately deduced. I am trying to broaden the discussion to include pianists with revolutionary interpretations, who have made their place in history because of this.

Ian Pace may have legendary technique and a legendary repertoire, but so far, I have not come across assessment of his playing as having a legendary interpretation. This may be a difficult assessment to make based on his limited recordings, since he records (and plays) many works of contemporary, avant-garde, and otherwise "new" composers, making his interpretations difficult to compare (since they made indeed stand alone). But nonetheless, if what you say is true, and he does indeed perform works of Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Schubert, Mozart, etc with the clarity and beauty you purport, why has he not gained a reputation for incredible interpretations of these composers' works?

I hope you know as well as I do when I say pianists like Rubinstein and Gould quickly made a name for themselves as legendary interpreters, as did Richter and Cortot. Although the debate may be limited to British pianists, your quite long and discomforting and perhaps even desperate attempt to unequivocally name Pace as the "greatest pianist of all time" goes too far.

As for Hamelin's Scriabin sonatas, I LOVE his interpretation of these works. He gives them enough fluidity and motion to give the music direction while also giving them enough spark and excitement to bring them alive. I absolutely adore Sonatas 2, 6, 9 and 10.

~Max~

PS - I am glad to see that you have begun to patronize less, and debate more.

[leahcim]

It is somewhat pointless to argue about this pianist being better than that pianist

Yes but it says greatest. At which point saying 4 is greater than 7, isn't pointless, but it is wrong

That said, it's called Great Britain. Mebbe they were saying Britain's not only Great but it's Greater than other Great things such as Alfred and the Western Railway?

[leahcim]

I didn't say that your two posts were "scary"

It's not quite Pantomime season yet, but I didn't say that you did.

We do bet which word you'll pick to do your Asperger's inspired pedantic dances with though hence mea culpa [I guessed your dictionary wouldn't have that one in and got £40 back for scary though, cheers ]

Question for you though I see a few people copying it here much like Bill Gates has staff that for some reason rock in their seat along with him "Hey if I rock perhaps I'll be like Bill", does it happen a lot to you IRL too?

[volodya]

Soliloquoy:

I just wanna say tha I agree with everythin you said! You obviously have a great ear!!!


Oh yeah, I saw a bunch of rep on Pace's site that is also part of Hamelin's repertoire. Do you think you could go ahead and post those vids of Pace out-unleazhin Hamelin, please? That would be awesome...






















(skepto)

[ahinton]

It's not quite Pantomime season yet, but I didn't say that you did.

You did at least imply that they might be seen as such from my location - or at least that is what your remark appeared to suggest.

We do bet which word you'll pick to do your Asperger's inspired pedantic dances with though hence mea culpa [I guessed your dictionary wouldn't have that one in and got £40 back for scary though, cheers ]

Question for you though I see a few people copying it here much like Bill Gates has staff that for some reason rock in their seat along with him "Hey if I rock perhaps I'll be like Bill", does it happen a lot to you IRL too?

If any of this actually means anything to you, then so be it; it makes no sense to me at all and I rather doubt that it does to anyone else that reads it, so I will ascribe to it an importance in accordance with its meaningfulness; at the very least, I can perceive not the remotest connection with the topic of this thread in what you write here.

Best,

Alistair

[leahcim]

so I will ascribe to it an importance in accordance with its meaningfulness

Indeed, you read it and then replied to it - that's pretty much the idea

[bflatminor24]

It's not quite Pantomime season yet, but I didn't say that you did.

We do bet which word you'll pick to do your Asperger's inspired pedantic dances with though hence mea culpa [I guessed your dictionary wouldn't have that one in and got £40 back for scary though, cheers ]

Question for you though I see a few people copying it here much like Bill Gates has staff that for some reason rock in their seat along with him "Hey if I rock perhaps I'll be like Bill", does it happen a lot to you IRL too?

Holy sh*t dude, that's worse than I am during my most euphoric high ever. Even an eigth of weed in an afternoon won't produce that kind of ultimate gibberish or Herculean stupidity.

M-pax.

[leahcim]

I just read an interview with Ian pace, a captain beefheart fan!

[ahinton]

Indeed, you read it and then replied to it - that's pretty much the idea

Indeed I did - by pointing out that what you wrote makes no sense in itself and is also  unconnected to the subject of this thread.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Indeed, I doubt any amount of weed would produce your kind of ultimate gibberish and Herculean stupidity.

Mine comes naturally though. :p

At least - and at last - you admit to your own "ultimate gibberish and Herculean stupidity", although how these come about - i.e. under the influence of "weed" (as has been suggested) or "naturally" (as is now claimed by yourself) - is arguably of little or no concern to anyone other than yourself. My only other observation in this context is my lack of susprise at your admission here; it would, after all, seem doubtful that the said kinds of expression had been encouraged by the use of a "substance", since the expressions themsleves contain so little "substance".

A return to the discussion initiated by this thread would now seem all the more welcome...

Best,

Alistair

[leahcim]

At least - and at last - you admit to your own "ultimate gibberish and Herculean stupidity"

Eh?

[arensky]

i havent heard much from this pianist. ive only heard his balakirev, rimsky-korsakov, and harty concertos, and i can honestly say that its some of the worst playing ive ever heard. for one, he doesnt put a lot of passion into what he plays. also, his playing is extremely uneven. is there sometihng im missing out on that he absolutely owns? every pianist has at least one piece that he/she owns, i would hope.

Listened to the Harty and Balakirev concerti and I still think he's great. I don't get how you think he's passionless. He has a very clear tone and articulation, which can get very powerful in fff passages without losing clarity or getting harsh, I really like his overall sound. But here's what I did notice; his openings of the Balakirev 1 and the Harty are somewhat akward, he seems to be afraid to take the octave plunge, or something. Apart from that I really enjoyed listening to these recordings attentively, heard a lot of good playing. To each his own, I guess.

[rob47]

he simply doesnt display the same level of dexterity and panache in the most difficult and dexterally demanding passages.

haha this alliteration

[elevateme_returns]

has anyone mentioned martin roscoe? i cant be arsed to look at the whole thing

[iumonito]

Sunderland AFC are better than Newcastle United (which *IS* true, of course, end of)

Hey, watch it with the Magpies already.

[ian pace]

Dear folks,

Indeed, I am the greatest British pianist. Thank you.

Ian Pace

[mephisto]

I think it is fair to asume, that "Ian Pace" is in fact not the real Ian Pace.

[minor9th]

I thought Ian Pace was Deep Purple's drummer...

I think at the rarefied level of Powell, Pace, Hamelin, et al, we're really splitting hairs. Each can play works of terrifying difficulty with relative "ease."

[elevateme_returns]

or Sunderland AFC are better than Newcastle United (which *IS* true, of course, end of)

haha im glad you stupid mackems are back in the premiership that means we can beat you AGAIN this season.

[iumonito]

We can do this even more interesting.  Who is the best pianist from Newcastle-upon-Tyne (among the ones I know from there, probably Sodi Braide)?

The Irish have reason to make corrections for putting Hough, Wilde and Douglas in these lists, although I think most people think of them as British pianists (something similar happens with Ukranian pianists, whom most everyone thinks of as Russian).

Anyone care to put together a list of whom has been discussed and we can have a poll and figure out where they are from on a more granular level?

Go Newcastle!

[elevateme_returns]

David murray

[franzliszt2]

David Murray

[jakev2.0]

John Ogdon (Pre 1973)

[opus10no2]

David murray

David Murray

!@#$ minds think alike.

I'd say right now, Hough and Freddy Krugah

[stevetrug]

John Ogden before his breakdown was a monumental player of extraordinary talent.
In term of Liszt's works, Leslie Howard must rank at the top of the tree in the UK. I believe he has recorded everything by Liszt.

[sevencircles]

Leslie Howard must rank at the top of the tree in the UK. I believe he has recorded everything by Liszt.

he has got a vey big ego too.

Claims that his repertoire is larger the any other pianist in history.

[opus10no2]

At least he doesn't make claims about his trousersnake.

Note that his discography is around 90-95% Liszt, I;m not really sure how much else he plays.

[the_duck]

At least he doesn't make claims about his trousersnake.

Note that his discography is around 90-95% Liszt, I;m not really sure how much else he plays.

he regularly concertizes schumann, rachmaninoff, rubinstein, balakirev, glinka, beethoven and others. but once he started on the liszt cycle it was difficult for him to give exposure to his other repertoire. btw, he also plays 75 concerti!!

[elevateme_returns]

David murray

David Murray

!@#$ minds think alike.

oh, im sorry. did you have any better suggestions for the greatest pianist from newcastle upon tyne? because if you do i'd be delighted to hear them.  hmm?

[franzliszt2]

Judging by opus10no2 we can tell that he is heavily into th musical scene of the north east of England  And he lieve in the north east of England. If ever you want piano lessons, I will happily show David Murray your comment 

[opus10no2]

I'm so scared!!!!!
 Whatever dirty scumbag, you ain't the ruler of my world.

Murrary is HARDLY the greatest british pianist.

[elevateme_returns]

Murrary is HARDLY the greatest british pianist.

no, we were referring to greatest from newcastle upon tyne. dont you ever get tired of being such a dick?

We can do this even more interesting. Who is the best pianist from Newcastle-upon-Tyne (among the ones I know from there, probably Sodi Braide)?

[opus10no2]

UR JUST PICKIN ON ME

[retrouvailles]

Stephen Hough and Steven Osborne are high on my list.

[elevateme_returns]

UR JUST PICKIN ON ME

youre the one that posted msn chats with us on piano street for no reason.
its you who is picking on us!

[elevateme_returns]

Now that we know who the greatest living pianist is, who do you think is Britain's  greatest pianist? I can think of none finer than John Lill.

who is the greatest living pianist?

[opus10no2]

Argerich..according to the poll.

[iumonito]

who is the greatest living pianist?

I don't know, but if she is not from Northumberland, she can't be that good, don't you think.  

https://www.northumberland.gov.uk/

..and by the way, I stand corrected.  Hough is not Irish, he is from Heswall, which is very much England (near Wales, right, but not in Wales).

[elevateme_returns]

Argerich..according to the poll.

argerich the greatest living pianist??? shes good, but not that good.

in my opinion martin roscoe is a lot better than argerich. and hes english