Scales, chords, harmony ?

[benjaminb]

I'm practicing my major scales, but I would really like to know when you play for example in a C scale how come a G, C, F, D min, A min sounds OK.

I would like to know when I play in a scale which chords 'sound ok' in it ;-)

Any advice on a book or a good website, where i can practice/learn that stuff ?

thx !

[benjaminb]

For all you noobs just like me ;-)

I found a great site that explains a lot of my questions :

https://www.free-online-piano-lessons.com

[prometheus]

The chord scale for major is:

I Maj7
ii m7
iii m7
IV Maj7
V 7
vi m7
vii m7b5

[counterpoint]

Why do people make music theory so complicated?

There are three basic chords in every scale, they are named

tonica, subdominant and dominant

which are positioned on the 1., 4. and 5. note of the scale

Then there are parallel chords who can replace tonica and subdominant chords

they are a third lower in major keys
and a third higher in minor keys

Further you can add septimes, nones etc. to every chord

and you can precede original chord-notes by suspension notes (halftone or whole step lower or higher as the "real" note).

[jonslaughter]

I'm practicing my major scales, but I would really like to know when you play for example in a C scale how come a G, C, F, D min, A min sounds OK.

I would like to know when I play in a scale which chords 'sound ok' in it ;-)

Any advice on a book or a good website, where i can practice/learn that stuff ?

thx !

What you need to do is look at the overtone series of the chord your playing and see how well it relates to the notes that your playing.

The overtone series for a C note is

C C G C E G (Bb) C D E (F#) G A B C

notice that the chord Cmaj is in that overtone of the the C note. We also have other chords higher up in the overtones. What we do is get the complete lydian-dominant scale just out of a C note. i.e., when you play a C note you are hearing this scale as a harmony. Its just that the overtones fall off in sound very quickly so you mainly only hear the first 2 or 3 overtones.

But each note in the overtone series of C has its own overtones. This is explains why B is more prominant than Bb because B shows up before the Bb because its the maj3rd of G and the 5th of E.

Anyways, the point is that some notes are more consonant with others because of there relationship to each other and how well the ear can figure out this relationship along with the context setup.

i.e., a piece in Cmaj tends to focus C as the basis where everything revolves around. i.e., It sets our ear up to use the C overtone series and relate everything from that.  So if you play a Db it would sound strange because its not found in the C overtones(atleast not close). But, say, if you play in Db maj then play C its completely fine because C is found in the overtones of Db.

i.e., In C maj, Db is "bad" but in Dbmaj, C is "ok". What this should tell you is context is everything. Theres more to music than just immediacy.

When you play a Cmaj chord you can play several scales over it(really any scale you want). But some scales would work better than others... and this could change depending on what comes before and after the Cmaj chord.

i.e.

If you play something in the key of Bb maj like Bbmaj Cmin F7 Bbmaj Cmaj F7 Bbmaj

Then that Cmaj chord is not related to the key of Cmaj but to the key of Bbmaj.  Hence you shoudln't play a B over it because it might sound strange(because F7 follows and Bb is related more to F7 than B).  It might sound ok too depending on how you use it.

The best think I can tell you is to use your ears and try to make music. I spend many years trying to learn the theory and neglected my ear. When I started using my ear I made more progress in 1 month then all of those 5 years(thats not entirely true but).  Ofcourse I still use the theory but not as a crutch any more. I thought the theory alone could make music but it didn't(atleast for me). 

Your ears will tell you all the theory you need to know and in a natural way.  You usually learn "music theory" as a communication device and not as a means to make music(although many might act like you can use it to make music).  Its a tool either way. So just play around and try and figure things out with your ear... learn a little theory(the language) so you can communicate with others clearly. 

For example, Try this:  Get the tonality of Cmaj in your ear. i.e., by playing chords in Cmaj and establishing the note C as the tonic by playing harmonies and cadences that revolve around the note C. Then play the Cmaj chord and start on C and play the C chromatic scale up to C. You'll notice it sounds like everything seems to fit even though you used every note.  Now try starting on different notes instead of C.. or maybe even ending on different notes and see how it works.   Maybe try and do it on different chords(but still having the tonality of Cmaj in your ear).  Try playing Cmaj but then just the "black" keys in the melody and see how that sounds. It might suck but then try to "resolve" that sound to something that seems to put it in the right context.

Try not to get in the habit like I did of thinking that you can just play a "snippet" of something and that it will sound right.  Just about anything can sound good it put in the right context. Hence if something sounds good but is put in the wrong context it can then sound bad. Context is the key and it took me a very long time to understand it(and I'm still working on it). Its easy to intellectualy understand that its important but its hard to actually hear why its important.

[mdshimazu]

Really you're opening up a giant can of worms when you ask this. I would probably recomend either spending some good solid time studying music theory or hold the question off, and just go by ear untill you get into college and spend some 3 or 4 years studying music theory.

Of what i read above it all sounds good BTW.

[will]

I'm practicing my major scales, but I would really like to know when you play for example in a C scale how come a G, C, F, D min, A min sounds OK.

All those chords sound OK because they can all be built from the C Major Scale.
C Major scale is C D E F G A B C
G chord is G B D,   C chord is C E G,   F chord is F A C,   D min is D F A,   A min is A C E
All the notes in the chords above are found in C major.

[pianistimo]

often, beginning students start with three note chords  noted as 5/3 chords.  but, in jazz - you start with sixths and ninths.  i'm not trying to open a can of worms here, but with those chords you automatically get to play what you want and after a while you are not only feeling that they sound good - but starting to add in 11ths and 13ths. 

so, instead of your basic C chord, you have C E G D (keeps skipping thirds to make more than a ninth).  the D will give some 'flavor' to your chord.  you can play it as a cluster if you want.  CDE.