My Chromatic scale (Need Opinions)

[roflman05]

Hi.

I play chromatic scales in different ways, but descending I find this one going really fast.

What do you think?

I think its easier to play than 121212312121.
What pros and cons can you come up with.

[sarahlein]

Have you tried using -starting on C:1313123131312?
So basically 3 on black keys and 1-2 on the natural semitones (E-F, B-C)

[nicco]

this has been discussed in several threads, i suggest a search.

[loops]

Have you tried using -starting on C:1313123131312?
So basically 3 on black keys and 1-2 on the natural semitones (E-F, B-C)

I use sarahlein's fingering and I think it would be faster than yours. I think my fingers would
be too bunched up using yours (and my hands are not that big). With both fingerings you need
to keep track of where the semi-tones between white keys are so no advantage there.

[italianopalo]

Why use excess fingers when the orthdox 131312... fingering works perfectly?
Much easier too

[roflman05]

ok here's the deal.

I havent really given the 1313123.. a fair chance.

I have a video of yundi li, when he plays the chromatics  12121231212... and is fast!

so im working on it now and its getting better and better.

The reason i posted this was i have always played chromatics as the picture shows , and I havent really played many pieces with long, fast chromatic scales in it.

So I wanted to know if anyone played the way I did.
One advantage with the picture fingerings is that you are giving the thumb a rest but if I just keep practising I think the "orthodox" will come up to speed as well.

Thanks for all you replys!

[ramseytheii]

You should use 4 always in the same place!

Walter Ramsey

[netzow]

The manuvering to get finger one in place after playing finger four looks very stiff to me. It seems to me that this fingering would slow down the scale. I second ramseythell always use finger four ( or any other finger ) in the same place. Give the traditional fingering a chance

[faulty_damper]

What rolfman has come up with is indeed genius!

The fingering he has experimented with and has found is actually much easier to use than the "traditional" or "standard" method.  (The "standard" method is actually much easier on the mind but not so easy on the fingers.)

To this end, I severely disagree that you should keep the fourth finger on the same keys.  This is the easy-on-the-mind aproach, an aproach that causes many playing flubs, in all senses of the word.

I say it's genius because I, too, use a similar fingering.
And I originally learned chromatic scale fingering with the "standard" method.  It occurred to me that the excess repetition of the same fingers required excess motions and I started to experiment with easier, faster, more efficient means of playing chromatic scales.  And the results were similar to rolfman's.  Unbelievably easy, though getting to this point required much time experimenting.

[ramseytheii]

What rolfman has come up with is indeed genius!

The fingering he has experimented with and has found is actually much easier to use than the "traditional" or "standard" method.  (The "standard" method is actually much easier on the mind but not so easy on the fingers.)

To this end, I severely disagree that you should keep the fourth finger on the same keys.  This is the easy-on-the-mind aproach, an aproach that causes many playing flubs, in all senses of the word.

I say it's genius because I, too, use a similar fingering.
And I originally learned chromatic scale fingering with the "standard" method.  It occurred to me that the excess repetition of the same fingers required excess motions and I started to experiment with easier, faster, more efficient means of playing chromatic scales.  And the results were similar to rolfman's.  Unbelievably easy, though getting to this point required much time experimenting.

I don't disagree with this fingering which can obviously work, and anyways every person needs a different fingering.  But the whole point of using 4 in a chromatic scale fingering is so you in fact don't have an "excess repetition of the same fingers."  And what excess motions?  I don't see them.  Anyways, generations of people have used this fingering without flubs, and if you can't use it without flubs, you should find a new fingering - and you have!

Furthermore, using 4 always on A-# is not just a New Age copout as you seem to think, but is a natural physical arrangement if you stop to think about it.

Walter Ramsey

[faulty_damper]

Anyways, generations of people have used this fingering without flubs, and if you can't use it without flubs,

This is perhaps true but just because something has been done a certain way for a long time doesn't mean it's the most effective way of doing it.  Take the "standard" way of fingering scales, for example.  Clearly not the easiest or effective but who would know if they have never been given an alternative or tried an alternative?

[avetma]

What about Liszt's suggestion?

[henrah]

What about Liszt's suggestion?

I've tried that and it works well, it's just that for me I need more practicing on making it even and also sounding out the D# with my fifth finger. What's annoying is that when my fourth plays a white note, my fifth gets dragged down with it and therefore can't play the succeeding black note with much force.

Think I might go practice it in a while actually.
Henrah

[ramseytheii]

This is perhaps true but just because something has been done a certain way for a long time doesn't mean it's the most effective way of doing it.  Take the "standard" way of fingering scales, for example.  Clearly not the easiest or effective but who would know if they have never been given an alternative or tried an alternative?

Of course you are right, but I was only responding to the slightly irritating suggestion that this traditional fingering causes nothing but problems, which is obviously not true.

About Liszt's fingering, it is most effective played with the "cat-stroking" touch, and can be valuable for certain fastp assages, but only if the notes line up in an efficacious way. 

Walter Ramsey

[henrah]

About Liszt's fingering, it is most effective played with the "cat-stroking" touch

THANKYOU!!! You've just simplified something which - stupidly - has taken me a while to realise!!