What were your worst mistakes as a (new)teacher ?

[m1469]

I just think it could be really interesting to see how people have learned during the process of becoming a private teacher.  I am also curious how/what people have changed because of these "mistakes".  And it would be interesting to learn how students have reacted to any changes that you have made under these circumstances.

Please share as you like.

Thanks,
m1469

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Hey m1469, you are visible. !

I am also curious to hear the responces from teachers here.

[Bob]

Not being in tune with the culture of the teaching environment.  Coming out of college, you do what you are trained to, but that's not necessarily the way the real world works.   Forums like this are nice for figuring out the real world that way.  That's pretty broad, but probably my biggest mistake and something that has changed in my teaching.

[rhapsody in orange]

For my case it'd be expecting too much out of a student. After all, everyone is different and learn at different rate. I've learnt to be more patient and to make the best out of each student's rate of progress.

[m1469]

Would you both be willing to provide some kind of specific example ?

[cora]

Two biggies m1469.

One very young child 7, I taught 45 minute lessons. She was sighing from fatigue after the half hour. I figured it out, and switched her to 30 minute lessons.

Another child I spoiled with too much of the adulation type of attention. She was not well behaved but I was enamoured or entranced by her. So I didn't correct her behaviour. They ended up quitting within 7 weeks because she didn't progress, leaving me with two bounced cheques. I should have gone to her work site to "clarify" the money situation but I sent her a letter.

Greetings.

[hyrst]

I am still learning and finding my mistakes!

I think I have very high expectations. I am still trying to find the balance with that.  I get on really well with all my students and they are all very happy and usually enthusiastic during lessons, but I am wondering if some of the issues I am starting to see are because of my hgih expectaitons - or if I am expecting too much and that is why I am  'seeing' problems?! 

For example, I usually have my students reading music within a couple of lessons (even the littlest ones).  (I teach concepts in a parallel way, but perhaps that doesn't allow for as indepth development of  each skill or knowledge area as is needed - I am still trying to figure it out.)  One particular 7 year old I have taught for a year and she was going well, but we have hit a wall and I don't know where to go or what to do!  She still enjoys her lessons, and actually asked last week to change to 2 hours of lessons a week (I told her to ask her mother, and I am sure her mother would refuse), but I am frustrated.  She keeps playing pieces she could play months ago and has stopped reading music (She will if she is pushed, but she doesn't follow the music when she plays and when trying to teach her new songs she plays what she thinks the music says, rather than reading it.)  I don't know if this is because I had her reading too early, or what!  I am sure I must be doing / have done something wrong - but I don't know what or what to do about it.  I try getting her to read and follow the music, testing her where she is and getting her to read notes, and all the strategies that have overcome reading problems in the transfer students I have - but I am really frustrated in this case. 

Are my expectations too high?  Can students stall in progress this much for several months?  Lessons with this girl used to be so full and creative - there was never enough time, even in the hour lessons.  I just don't know where to go next!

But, I'd say that high expectations are almost definitely the area that has been / is my problem.  Also because of that, I have started students on pieces that I thought they could handle but they have not coped with.  (At least I listen and we desist after a few weeks, but I think it sets a bad precedent.)  I tend to underestimate the difficulty of pieces for students. Again, this is my high expectations! 

Ananh

[pianistimo]

being too rigid.  i still have a sort of 'formula' that i like to follow each lesson - a general pattern of what we work first, second, third, etc. - but with some students i now get diverted to spending more time on one area or another and sometimes the lesson goes over a little because we run out of time.  i used to think 'bad bad' not to get through everything.  but, even if you have a good lesson on a few items - it's not wasted time.  especially if the student understands the concepts of whatever it is you are trying to get across.

listening well.

not assuming anything.

you cannot help but become more aware of deficiencies when you meet other teachers, discuss different ways of approaching things, and become more flexible - as bob said.  children don't really care about 'perfection' as much as flexibility.  and, each child/adult is different.  and, there's probably no 'perfect' way to teach piano anyways.  results do count, though.  it's just that some want a certain result right away.  i've become (i hope not lazy) sort of - 'however long it takes.' not rushing a result.

[elisianna]

  I think my expectations are also too high.  I always expect that my students will have done so much better over the course of the week than they actually do.  I'm not sure if they can sense my disappointment.  I try to praise them, but I always end up giving them maybe too much critizism at once.

  I guess I expect all of them to progress at least CLOSE to the way that I did.  I started when I was 16 though, but when I started I was taking home 5 songs a week (yah, back then they were actually songs. XD) and had them perfect by the next week, which was why my teacher ended up moving me, after a year, to a level that usually takes people 6-8 years to get to. (He wanted to prove that all these grading systems are silly and we don't need them XD  I guess I just had good practicing habits.)

  I'm trying to learn to lower my expectations, but it's not easy. =P

[jpianoflorida]

high expectations ...I agree! that seems to be the general idea here.    For me, I had to work , but piano came fairly easy to me compared with what i see witht he average student!  I think we often think as teachers we have to get EVERY student playing well very soon! I don't want to lower my expectations because then I would not be an effective teacher, but I think we can have the "expectations" and at the same time somehow be positive with the student, realize that not every student will progress the same, and never forget to approach each student as and individual. Sometimes we need to just get rid of our "normal lesson structure" and go with new ideas.   Recently I had a student who was having trouble in every area, and also his attitude was so "I DON"T CARE"...    One day I decided to show him a blues scale--I never give up on trying to reach a student!! I've made that commitment to myself.(he's only 10).....WOW, he picked on on it, we then starting working on blues scales, improvising, major scales...he had great fun exploring outside of the normal lesson book. Now I can show him how to apply that to his reading, etc.   

[jpianoflorida]

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[jpianoflorida]

ok.....i'm having typing trouble......         is there a way you can remove a post once you've submitted when you find out you have mistyped?     

[m1469]

ok.....i'm having typing trouble......         is there a way you can remove a post once you've submitted when you find out you have mistyped?     

Not anymore.  But you can edit the post by using the "modify" button on the top, right-hand side of the post (next to the "quote" button) when you are logged in.

[Bob]

I would do too much for the kids who weren't really interested.  Whatever I would do wasn't enough.  They continued to do nothing because they really weren't that interested in the first place.  Being too flexible can be a problem.

I've learned to offer what I offer and that's it.  I can't afford to do too much just to be nice.  It must benefit me somehow -- more teaching skills teaching or financially.


Another one would be following college ideals too much.  There are other ways to teach -- like by rote -- that have their place.

Going too fast for students.  It's better to do a little well then too much and have nothing stick.

[rhapsody in orange]

The very first time I had to teach a 7 year-old, I talked to her as if she's an adult. It's then that I realised little kids require a different approach. They need more encouragement, they need to be convinced that a piece is not as difficult as they think it is and sometimes they do need a little coaxing too. There was this time she just spent half her lesson sulking and refusing to play anything and i just got frustrated with her. We got nothing done for half that lesson. But nowadays I would try a little more coaxing on her, maybe let her play something she likes for a while before getting back on lessons proper. That way I realise I actually waste less of lesson time and she actually gets more things done.

[lostinidlewonder]

I've always expected a lot from my students and still do. I always tell them, aim for the stars and you hit the moon, always stretch yourself further than you usually can, then you get somewhere, if you keep comfortable you will never acheive what you are capable of.

I think my expectations sin waved all over the place. I back off and give them a break, less work when I see they getting stressed out (or have extra pressure in non-music things in their life), I turn on the pressure when they look too comfortable. Usually when they are stressed I try to find answers to why it is hard for them, I think this process of determining what EXACTLY is hindering their progress is something I neglected a lot when I started out teaching, it wasn't something I could determine in the lesson. Usually I said, repetition, more practice, now it is much more direct, how to repeat, how to practice, how to target and remove what is stuffing them up.

Inefficient teaching is something I am always trying to act against. How can you in the time limit do as much work as possible and ensure that it has all been absorbed. I found that often I would just talk about the same thing and continutally beat in the same idea in many ways until the student became brainwashed. Now I tend to trust the student undertsands what I mean if they can explain or demonstrate it close to how I want it. I try not to get them to play it EXACTLY how I would like it, I trust that they will learn it during the week, so long I can see the foundation and the correct method to practice the right sound we should move on.

[penguinlover]

My mistakes are in expecting all my students to love the piano as much as I did when I was their age, and still do!  Not everyone is wired that way.  I have always loved to practice, and I don't understand students who don't love it. 

Another mistake is in not offering supplimental music, and relying solely upon method books.  The students get impatient to play "real music" and get bored easily.

Another big mistake is in not finding this forum until now.  I have grown stale through the years, and not challenged myself until recently.

[cora]

To Penguin Lover,

You probably just spend too much time with penguins...that's all.

[ingagroznaya]

Another deep post from m1469 from Okoshkino. Well, let me try.

Mistake number 1 - make up lesson 95% of the time will require another make up lesson.
Mistake number 2 - allowing to record a lesson. Student never learns to count on his own.
Mistake number 3 - forgetting a check book is ok. No it is not.
Most of my mistakes were about boundaries. Once such a boarder is crossed it is almost impossible to turn things around.
Mistake number 4 - people in general are somewhat reasonable. Wrong! Reasonable people are rare.
Mistake number 5 - piano teachers being treated good and universally considered to be a very respectful profession. Bzzzz, so wrong!

Miscellaneous learnings : Wealthier people in general demand discount. Their kids are often spoiled brats. Last not the rule though.
Emotionally messed up parents have very responsible children.

[hyrst]

I agree 90% with what Inga says!  Although I am still hoping people are basically reasonable, LOL!

Yes, allow a make up lesson and people think they can change lessons at the drop of a hat and will hold missed lessons over your head - avoiding payment!  (I've got one of those at the moment, and they're financially way better off than me.  This is happening even though my policies clearly state what happens with missed lessons - so I thought!) I am still developing a full-time teaching studio, as I was teaching high school about a year ago - I don't have awaiting list yet - so it becomes very difficult to risk pushing boundaries (especially when they know you have times available).  One day, when I have a full schedule, I am flatly going to refuse situations like this.  The complicated thing is that in this case it is not from lack of respect - it's just a certain amount of taking things for granted, and me letting it happen. 

I can handle people who really genuinely have financial issues - one client has currently rent and a mortgage to pay and both parents are working over time to try and keep up - they too frequently forget to pay - but with a letter of reminder very apologetically catch up.

Another mistake I made when I first started, despite all advice, was to charge less than the going rate for lessons and to allow short lessons (with half price) for the 4-5 year olds.  Now I have students whose fees are half what others are paying, and it is very awkward to quickly raise the fee to meet the standard.  One student, because he started with 15 minute lessons and then went to 30 without a fee increase (it kind of 'happened'), is now paying about 1/3 of my normal fees.  (There are going to be some rude shocks in the future!)

Boundaries are awfully hard to keep in the beginning.  The problem is that precedents are set that are harder to break later.  Still, time will eventually sort it all out - and if some don't like the changes more than they like my teaching, I guess they will leave, but they would have done anyway! :-) ]

In the practical side, I also find it difficult to keep to the allocated teaching time - especially when there are no studentswaiting next.  I guess there are a lot of practical thingsto learn as a new teacher.

[penguinlover]

To Cora,
   Probably.  Maybe another mistake is to reward my students with penguins, stamps, stickers, etc.  They don't seem to get as excited about them as I do!  penguinlover

[hyrst]

But, Penguin lover, kids do LOVE stickers and little certificates and prizes and things.  It makes a big differnece to some of my students - they will work for the tokens, even when they just want to get to the end of pieces!

[penguinlover]

I know that is true, but sometimes I think I should broaden my spectrum a bit, and offer more than penguins!  I can't imagine why, everyone should appreciate that cute bird!  Anyway, I should get sports stickers, flowers, 'excellent" stickers, etc. You get the idea.  I have penguin stickers, penguin rubber stamps, penguin erasers, penguin pencils, etc.  I guess the rule is, you had better love penguins for me to teach you!  (Not really)  I'd teach anyone, but it helps if they at least "like" penguins!  penguinlover

[ingagroznaya]

To Cora,
   Probably.  Maybe another mistake is to reward my students with penguins, stamps, stickers, etc.  They don't seem to get as excited about them as I do!  penguinlover

I know what you mean, but it feels kinda liberating to go to a store and whack $1000.00 on ...stickers. I've never got a sticker in my entire life!  Now days ,of course, I hold a sticker exchange conferences once per year. Those are fun.

[pianistimo]

perhaps the cheapest form of sticker is to make your own.  i forget where i posted a recipie for this.  ps.  i've never made my own - but been reminded that i ran out of stickers.  all of my students come to expect them with the exception of the adults.  i cannot imagine a lesson without stickers.  the dollar store is probably the cheapest.  they also have five cent rings.  i use these on the fourth finger of the rh when students are learning what finger to sharp for the scales of G and so forth.  also, i use other bribes.  parties.  (kindergarten teachers know what i mean - as my daughter gets a popcorn party on friday if everyone is appropriately quiet when the teacher is talking during the week).   

[cora]

Can anybody tell me why some posts only have one line of text with no arrow that you can travel up or down. How do I read the rest of their post?

As for stickers, after 10 yrs I gave up stickers this month. Not one child has mentionned that there are no stickers now. Very strange. Anyways, I just thank them, they thank me, and we part.

[hyrst]

My kids would really miss the stickers if I stopped using them - the 2 to 6 year olds especially.  They ask for stickers.  But, really, the sitckers are part of my merit system - for some they are tokens of attention and effort that accumulate for merit awards (that's when they need reinforcement every few minutes, like the younger ones or those with attention issues).  The stickers are really just a way of decorating the merit awards - that is my token system for reinforcement of learning and effort (or anythign else I want ot say "well done" about). 

 I use merit awards and the kids collect them.   When they have ten awards, they trade them in for a prize (just a $2 gift, but they love it).  I have students now with piles of these awards - and they keep every one of them.  The youngest ones will learn and practice for the awards, even when it menas hard work.  The young ones used to spend time at the end of each lesson counting how many they had - they asked to do it.  Now, I keep a record for them.  But, even the 12 year olds say "I now have X number of merits" every time they get a new one. 

A bit of positive reinforcement goes a long way - and a token gives them something tangible.

[penguinlover]

Hyrst,
   I love your idea.  I've been thinking of doing something along that line, earning rewards that go beyond stickers.  I think I'll try it.  penguinlover

[m1469]

For example, I usually have my students reading music within a couple of lessons (even the littlest ones).  (I teach concepts in a parallel way, but perhaps that doesn't allow for as indepth development of  each skill or knowledge area as is needed - I am still trying to figure it out.)  One particular 7 year old I have taught for a year and she was going well, but we have hit a wall and I don't know where to go or what to do!  She still enjoys her lessons, and actually asked last week to change to 2 hours of lessons a week (I told her to ask her mother, and I am sure her mother would refuse), but I am frustrated.  She keeps playing pieces she could play months ago and has stopped reading music (She will if she is pushed, but she doesn't follow the music when she plays and when trying to teach her new songs she plays what she thinks the music says, rather than reading it.)  I don't know if this is because I had her reading too early, or what!  I am sure I must be doing / have done something wrong - but I don't know what or what to do about it.  I try getting her to read and follow the music, testing her where she is and getting her to read notes, and all the strategies that have overcome reading problems in the transfer students I have - but I am really frustrated in this case. 

Are my expectations too high?  Can students stall in progress this much for several months?  Lessons with this girl used to be so full and creative - there was never enough time, even in the hour lessons.  I just don't know where to go next!

Ananh

Have you played duets with her or had her play duets with other students ?  I have found this to be a good opportunity to help them understand why it's important to follow what the score is saying.  When they get in a situation where they are trying to put something together with somebody else, they suddenly become very aware that they have to stay on the ball and this new awareness can carry over into solo playing as well.  Also, when playing duets, they feel like they have company in the game of playing the piano, and sometimes this simple fact alone does wonders for their motivation, focus, and attention.

Also, it sounds mean, but have you ever tried having her sight read something easy and cover her hands with another music score so she can't see them ?  They normally seek refuge in the music score itself and follow along exactly.  If you haven't tried this, you might want to give a try.  It presents a new challenge to them and a bit of an unexpected excitement.

Can you pinpoint something very specific that you can focus on in her learning process ?  If so, you can have your lessons with her focus on this in a rainbow of ways.  Games, activities and the sort. 

You may also want to try sending her home with a children's book about music where they read a story while listening along to the music.  I have a few that the kids seem to just love.  It doesn't hurt their overall interest in the subject and can even be educational for them.


m1469

[hyrst]

Thanks again, m1469.
Yes, I have had her playing duets - with me and other students.  These helped with counting in particular - I finally got her to understand why we count!  I have also used stories and classical music tapes - for general development.  She does actually love playing piano and has a lot of fun in lessons.  Although things have stalled a bit lately, she is usually / was very creative. 

I might try covering her hands.  I have been thinking about it, and I think this reading problem began when I started insisting she play hands together - that was her previous avoidance issue.  Maybe I started her playing hands together before she was ready with coordination.  But, the seperate work was just too easy for her.  (She plays scales and arpeggios and octaves very fluently, everywhere on the keyboard.) Maybe I missed something she needed in this development.  I am thinking she might have reverted to watching her hands to manage the coordination.  (Surprisingly, she is left handed but hates to play with her left hand.)  I know I can make this challenge fun, so it'd be worth a try.

I cannot work out what exactly needs attention in her playing.  Although I usually try to combine content in a wholistic sense - and I use as many games and fun approaches as I can imagine - I have decided I probably need to compartmentalise skill areas in her lessons.  She can manage the technical skills and work for grade 1 to 2 - she imitates perfectly and memorises easily.  So, if we play more complex works from memory that might be OK.  Then we can have different work for sight-reading - note flashcards and rhythms and small phrases where we don't write down letter names.  The other side is applying note reading to written theory work. 

Maybe I also need to relax a little and accept her enjoying playing pieces she could play a long time ago.  Maybe it just means she is having fun.

Does this sound OK?  Are there issues that I might create by separating these learning areas?  Thanks.

[m1469]

It's a good idea to have whatever is being isolated relate directly with something they are doing in the music, giving a distinct purpose to the task of working the problem out.  And then at some point being rejoined in context.  The main problem would come about by these isolated things never being brought together. 

You know, there is a possiblity that there is something big going on in her life and she may be just having a bit of a rough time with it.  Maybe she is distracted because of it and it's showing up in her lessons with you in the form of wanting to stay in a "comfortable/safe place" musically.  It happens, but there are ways of dealing with it, too .


m1469

[hyrst]

I have always avoided isolating areas of learning before, but I am thinking that this might be necessary clarity for this student - focusing on one task at a time, allowing her to develop at differnet rates in differnet areas.

It could be that she had a tough time.  I know she performed a reading badly a couple of weeks ago for school, and her mother says she said she wanted to quit reading because she was so disappointed.  I hadn't thought that the two might be related, although I should have thought about it.  Maybe she just needs a bit of time to bring things together in her self.

I will be gentle and patient.  MAybe she just needs to regain her confidence.  I can't believe I have been so slow in realising this! 

[rhapsody in orange]

Speaking of duets, yes I've a girl who loves it when I play with her. She loved it when she played the simple melody for "Frosty the Snowman" last year and I played the accompaniment part for her. This also helps her to be more accurate in her rhythm. She has a tendency not to count properly but to play by instinct so sometimes her rhythm (especially dotted crotchet followed by a quaver kind of rhythm) is not accurate.

Also, the slight change to what she usually plays makes the lesson less boring.

[Bob]

Not dealing with the kids and parents who are just yanking your chain and wasting your time.  You have to have a plan set up to deal with people who aren't really interested and end up wasting your time and energy.

[jpianoflorida]

Not dealing with the kids and parents who are just yanking your chain and wasting your time.  You have to have a plan set up to deal with people who aren't really interested and end up wasting your time and energy.

yep! i still have to work on that one..sometimes I put up with too much crap!

[penguinlover]

Me too, she says as she waits for a student who is more than a half hour late.  Probably won't show up now. Not even a phone call to cancel!   I'm far too easy going.  People take advantage of that.

[jpianoflorida]

Me too, she says as she waits for a student who is more than a half hour late.  Probably won't show up now. Not even a phone call to cancel!   I'm far too easy going.  People take advantage of that.

yep...i do the same...i'm flexible..but then again i think because i am flexible it allows me to keep more students..if people develop a dislike for your strictness, etc., they will badmouth you and then what have you gained? an empy studio! so i think it's ok to be a little easy sometimes, don't you?

[m1469]

so i think it's ok to be a little easy sometimes, don't you?

Not really.  Some of the worst mistakes that I have ever made have been being easy on people.  For example, giving one of my students a deal after they tell me that they can't afford it.  In the meantime they take multiple trips to other countries, weekends at the cabin, months off without paying... so on and so forth.   In the meantime my house falls apart and so do my cars and we didn't have the money to get them fixed because here I am giving charity to people who don't really need it.

Finally, they called one month and told me that they would not be coming that month because they could not pay for it.  I offered to have my student help me around my studio and office at $10/hour  (she is 10 years old !!)  to make up for the lesson time.  We agreed and she didn't follow through.  Later I find out they ran into financial trouble because they bought too many presents and went on too many trips.  My problem ?  *** no !  It was a big mistake to ever have given them a deal, I realized.

So, I had to change the situation instead of being angry about it.  Basically I was ready to let them go and told them they had to start paying full price or they would lose their spot in my studio.  They decided to stay.  Then I handed my student an updated studio policies to take home to ma and pa, and after they read, ma gave me a phone call saying that she didn't think something in it was fair.  I called back leaving a message explaining in brief why my policy was such, I completely didn't yield and hung up the phone.  A few days later I get a knock on the door and here is ma handing me another check to pay for the month that my student had failed to work for me in exchange for her lessons. HA !  They are still part of my studio.

Okay, I guess I had to get that one out.  Anyway, I have realized that people actually respect me and what goes on in the studio a lot more when I am strict (not unkind, just steady) and let them know how I run my business.  That's not to say that I *never* bend a rule.  But if I do, I make them feel very guilty about it first  . hee hee.. that's not entirely true, but in some cases it is.


m1469

[jpianoflorida]

basically it's your studio and what works for one person may not work for another....at the end of the day you have to do what makes you feel good.

[m1469]

basically it's your studio and what works for one person may not work for another....at the end of the day you have to do what makes you feel good.

Sure.  I will say that it feels *really* good to be able to pay my bills  .

Anyway, along the lines of what you have mentioned, I think that whatever one's policies are (or whatever makes a person "feel good"), if the teacher is true to the business policies they set up for themselves everything runs a whole lot smoother.  Of course, there are always exceptions. 

As the boss and owner of my own business, I make the policies, however, I become a mere employee of the business when I am enforcing them.  I have told many people "this is just what the studio policy is" as though I have no control over changing them, and that seems to work quite well (and I have kept students on WAY more often than scared them off by enforcing policies).


m1469

[pianistimo]

some people control everything by pricing or age.  i mean - after teaching quite a few years  - i'm starting to think 'only take rich adults.'  but, then again - i'd be missing out on half the fun.  and, it's probably much more difficult in the long run to find enough of those.

[penguinlover]

Well , my lifestyle is so different than most of you.  I don't have a full time studio, just my living room.  Maybe someday when I get rich and famous.  But for now, I have to remain very flexible.  I need flexibility for myself as I care for an aging parent in the house, work at a job, be a mom and wife.  So, I guess I shouldn't get upset when my students need flexibility.  But, I always let them know in advance what I need.  It would be nice if they would return the courtesy.

[keyofc]

I'm not sure this was my worst mistake or not, but I've been told that it was.

When I started teaching,  I was not familiar with the different levels of learning.  My first student seemed. so good with Book One that I thought she needed  a boost.  Something to give her a challenge and help her confidence.

I had a tape with various classical pieces on it that I loaned to her.  I really didn't even look at the names of the pieces.   I just told her to listen to it and select one she would like to learn.  One was Patheque..l Fur Elise was on it too. 

She decided on Fur Elise - so I bought the original.  She had only been taking piano for a couple of month.s  She perservered and learned it - but at the time it was really over her head. 

So - my friend that has a Master's in piano - believed it was a big mistake.
However, she did learn it.

Still, if I did the tape routine again, I would adjust the level acorrdinly when I buy the music.  I do like the idea of giving students a choice within a selection that I have found.
I know everyone talks about how easy FUr Elise is, but that's because they are not new on the piano.  She was only about 7 and had just learned the grand staff not that long before receiving the piece

[pizno]

OK, so she learned it.  But was she ready for it???  Did she have any control?  Tone?  Musicality?  How did it sound when she played it?  I have to agree that it takes a while to be really prepared for Beethoven.  There are a lot of lessons to be learned beyond learning the notes.

Piz

[penguinlover]

I also did something similar.  I didn't have a tape, but one of my students wanted to learn Fur Elise, and it was way over her head.  She seemed very interested in it, and wanted to play it badly, so I told her we would work on it.  Well, she learned the notes, a year later, and hated the piece by that time.  She never played it well.  Once she "learned" it, I doubt she ever played it again.  I think we wasted a year that she could have been doing much more enjoyable things.

[hyrst]

This is really funny - I have done a simlar thing with Fur Elise! 
I had an intellectualy gifted 6 year old start lessons with me.  He wanted to learn piano specifically so he could play Fur Elise.  I had an interview with him and he had already memorised a fair bit of the melody, even without knowing anything about the piano.  He had a very expressive touch and was passing thumbs under and all sorts of things without even thinking about it. 

So, I agreed to teach him - and to start working on Fur Elise.  Well, I pushed him in at the deep end!  He had memorised the theme with left hand arpeggios in two weeks, but he was getting frustrated because his memory kept slipping, so he was making mistakes and struggling with the left hand.  Never again! 

Being a perfectionist, after a few weeks he decided he wasn't any good at playing the piano and came very close to giving up.  That was when the emergency bells rang for me - a bit slow, I know!  I then had to explain to him very carefully that what he was trying to do was very unrealistic and that he was doing an amazing job to have achieved what he had done.  He accepted my explanantion, but he is not a kid with a lot of confidence and he didn't need to have this pressure. 

We are still working on Fur Elise, a little at a time when he feels like it, but I am trying to give him a better foundation in playing and reading. 

I think this is one of the challenges of teaching gifted kids - you have to work on different levels at once.  It takes a lot of foresight to get the balance right.  They get totally bored if you keep them on the easy method pieces, but they need some of this material - the foundations are often harder for them to grasp than the harder stuff.  At the same time, if you don't target exactly the right level of harder material, their perfectionistic tendencies can generate an unbalanced sense of failure. 

On the bright side, this morning I had a lesson with the 5 year old I mentioned earlier.  I was jumping up and down for joy.  I took him over some very simple material today, basic Primer reading level.  I have been trying to get this point across to him for months, but out of nowhere he said today, "You know, if you watch the notes on the music very carefully you can remeber them and if you think very carefully about the piano you notice where the notes are and you don't lose your place!"  How many different ways have I tried to 'make' this happen.  Oh, I am so hoping that this marks the beginning of him 'getting it'!

I also had another refreshing lesson this morning with a student I have struggled with for a little while, an 8 year old.  She was learning really well, and then suddenly stopped reading the music - it was just a total blank and I couldn't seem to get through to her that it was important to follow the score.  She would do nothing if I didn't show her what to do first.  Today, after a few weeks' break, she was very rusty - but she read the music.  She worked the notes out herself and followed the lines.  I am so relieved :-)

Annah

[pianowolfi]

The problem is that students who want to play Für Elise badly are often not pleased if you try to give them something easier. Sometimes they refuse that and insist. I currently have one boy who started his lessons with Für Elise as a beginner. Now he can play the whole thing, some parts sound still messy but he's making progress. I think if I wouldn't have allowed him to play it he would have been very disappointed. He seems to look for the challenge. It's a delicate balance between motivation and frustration.

[jpianoflorida]

The problem is that students who want to play Für Elise badly are often not pleased if you try to give them something easier. Sometimes they refuse that and insist. I currently have one boy who started his lessons with Für Elise as a beginner. Now he can play the whole thing, some parts sound still messy but he's making progress. I think if I wouldn't have allowed him to play it he would have been very disappointed. He seems to look for the challenge. It's a delicate balance between motivation and frustration.

always good observations and points pianowolf..i agree!

[keyofc]

Pizno,
She really did have good tone, musicality and control, but she worked on it for 9 months.
Not too many people would do that - but she is like that.