Ever had a...

[ingagroznaya]

Ever had a student so old, that he died of an old age... while taking your lesson? I am in this situation right now and I need a word of encouragement.

[quantum]

He died while enjoying something he liked to do 

[pianistimo]

he's dying as we speak?  you are too attractive for him.  put a bag over your head.

[leucippus]

He died while enjoying something he liked to do 

Exactly.

Besides, I wish people would get over the extreme sadness associated with death.  It's a perfectly nature thing.  It's just the other end of life from birth.

I personally believe that it's impossible to cease to exist.  We merely change form.

It's no big deal really.  People have been dying to get out of life for ages.

Be happy for him.  There are probably better pianos where he's at now anyway. 

[thierry13]

Exactly.

Besides, I wish people would get over the extreme sadness associated with death.  It's a perfectly nature thing.  It's just the other end of life from birth.

I personally believe that it's impossible to cease to exist.  We merely change form.

It's no big deal really.  People have been dying to get out of life for ages.

Be happy for him.  There are probably better pianos where he's at now anyway. 

I'd love it to be the way you describe it...

[lau]

so your student died while taking a piano lesson from you? aren't you traumatized?

[ingagroznaya]

There are probably better pianos where he's at now anyway. 

God with you! He is not there yet!

[leucippus]

God with you! He is not there yet!

Ok, well I'm confused now.  In your opening post you said he "died" of old age.  Where I live they use that to mean the past tense.

Do you simply mean that you have a very old and feeble student who looks like he's going to kick the bucket at any momment?

You might be surprised at how tenaciously those old geezers can cling to life.  Look at Artur Rubinstein!  He was giving concerts into his 100's.

[penguinlover]

I'm impressed that a person that old is still interested in taking lessons.  Can't say I've taught anyone that old (other than myself, and I'm getting up there!)

[jpianoflorida]

I had an adult student in her 70's pass away suddenly(not in lessons)....i was asked to play for her funeral--her family said she looked forward to her weekly piano lesson..it was the highlight of her week..it was an honor to play for her funeral...i'm smiling now thinking about how she loved the piano, even though she was just getting started good.

Just remember how you touched your students life and how they touched yours.     ON a different note, have you ever had a student current of former that committed suicide? that is a different story...for me , it was a former students, he was 16..it was still tough to deal with.

[penguinlover]

I haven't.  But that would be hard to deal with wouldn't it?  How sad.

[ingagroznaya]

Ok, well I'm confused now.  In your opening post you said he "died" of old age.  Where I live they use that to mean the past tense.

Do you simply mean that you have a very old and feeble student who looks like he's going to kick the bucket at any momment?

You might be surprised at how tenaciously those old geezers can cling to life.  Look at Artur Rubinstein!  He was giving concerts into his 100's.

I don't know where you live. I said " If you ever had"..." your student".
Yes, he is already in a bucket with one foot. Sometimes I do not know if he is alive and kicking ...or already kicked. Then moment later, he opens his eyes and a lesson continues.

I feel blessed to meet this man.

[pianistimo]

this is too funny.  one foot in a bucket.  ingagroznya, you simply must write a book.  leucippus can edit it for tenses and add some poetry.  between you two, i am at a loss for words which rarely happens. 

[pianowolfi]

this is too funny.  one foot in a bucket.  ingagroznya, you simply must write a book.  leucippus can edit it for tenses and add some poetry.  between you two, i am at a loss for words which rarely happens. 

haha

[pianowolfi]

I f Thalbergmad was a teacher the foot in the bucket would probably be his and not the student's...

[ingagroznaya]

I don't know, guys. The student really not in shape to show up for his lesson and yet he's always here. We started from scratch some years ago (  than he was obviously in much better shape ). He is in such condition now, where he can't find the energy to practice. We are still "working" on a piece which we took several months ago. He barely can play through it all during the lesson time. I mean the guy is really dying! I am not kidding - sometimes I do not know if he is alive or not.
My problem is - from an ethical point of view, he's seeking a companion, not a teacher now. He is extremely stubborn. I have already suggested for him to take some time off. He refuses. I can't fire him. I do not want to fire him. I do not have a heart to fire him. I wish him well. He is a rare kind of guy...I like this man a lot, but I am not a nurse. One day his pants was covered in his poop, another day -  nose running ( he just can't tell - that's what happens to us, when we get really old and sick ). On top of that, his mind is very sharp and clear. I fear when he walks up and down stairs to get to me! He does not have much balance. I fear he will not die comfortably in his bed or honorably at the piano, but flying down the stairs...

He used to flirt endlessly with my other studenette who was then 89, she did not see him in a while. She would be in shock. The guy used to be a major flirt. He still has the same mind, but not the body. I am afraid he's unaware of his situation to the full extent.

I do not know how to handle it.

Anyone has something wise to say?

[berrt]

I do not know how to handle it.

Anyone has something wise to say?

Let the dying old man take his "lessons". I guess it's an important part of his (obvoiusly) rapidly ending life. If he dies on your stairs, then how it comes.
Perhaps you could reduce the frequence of lessons (bi-weekly or something).

B.

[penguinlover]

I think I agree with berrt, maybe having shorter lessons.  Treat him with the love and respect he deserves.  You are privileged he chose you to teach him music, which he obviously loves.  It must be sad to watch him week after week as his body weakens, just remember, we'll all be there someday (maybe).  Treat him like you would want to be treated.

[ihatepop]

Sad...

I think that your student is a man that we should honour very much. 'Live till you're old, learn till you're old' (chinese idom).

O, cruel fate, why must you do us so!

ihatepop

[keyofc]

Ingragonaza,
sorry for spelling,,,
It does sound pretty severe in problems there.  I am sure you admire him for wanting to play piano and sticking with it like he has.  However, if he is unsanitary at the piano like that, and you are truly concerned with his well-being - only you can truly judge the situation.

I've never had a situation like that. 
If I was going to continue lessons, some things that I might do is:
1. Start a new song
2.  Provide him an opportunity to play in front of friends and students that would be supportive.  (I know this sounds overly optimistic, and maybe it is, but sometimes people really change when a small forum opens up like that and get more into it>
3. Come up with a goal sheet  (I know it sounds crazy, but maybe he has gotten into a rut, and new goals may actually stimulate him.
4.  Shorten the lessons.   You may not even need to tell him.  I would say I'm restructuring my lessons around people's hectic schedules and length of attention spans and feel that they will get a lot more out of the focused shorter classes.  Give an example of someone you know that started getting a lot more out of a shorter lesson if you can.
5.  Ask him more questions.  Not all musically related, some just to get him talking about his golf game, or whatever.  I have noticed that this helps some people get into their music with a new energy when they share a little bit about their life.
6.  If you are a praying person, I would make sure I prayed for him and myself before each time I taught him and pray for creative ideas.

It sounds to me like this is a very trying situation - I wish you luck and will pray for wisdom for you.
He is probably on heavy medication and is doing all he can do to keep going forward.
Stopping lessons would be hard on both of you, but only you can decide what is the best.  I think that would be very difficult.  I don't envy you.  Then again, maybe I do envy you.  If your students are that committed you can't tear them away from the piano - that is saying something pretty big.
   
 

[ingagroznaya]

Thank you for all of your comments.

I also feel he got into a rut with his peice, but he is not willing to change it. I offered. It actually sounds pretty good by now. He insist :" I want to nail it down before I die ".

He is not that "unsanitary" at the piano. He is unsanitary because he's very old and not feeling well. His wife past away long ago and he is living alone. He is very very ill.

Now my problematic situation became even more problematic. I really do not know what to do. We have a party-recital for my adult students. I do not know if other students will welcome his state. The state is far from sparkling... I do not want to offend other students, I want them to enjoy them selfs, but even worth I fear that if he'll find out that he is not invited - it would crash him. ( Pardon my poor English ).
We have our share of disagreements with this man, he is not easy,  but at the end when he is finally makes his way up to my studio and day begins - I am extremely happy to see him.
He can be a pain in the neck..., but I enjoy his company whether he's ill or not. I hope that's how others will see him?

I must say I had one experience, where I regret inviting one family to attend a recital in the past. I had some concerns before the gathering and after it was over, one of my parents confirm that by simply saying " Never invite this family to a recital again". It's sounds harsh, as 3 children were involved, but it was only sane.... considering how it all turn out.

[henrah]

One day his pants was covered in his poop

Oh man, what did you do? Was it on the outside or from the inside?


I have no idea why I'm asking this...
Henrah

[ingagroznaya]

Oh man, what did you do? Was it on the outside or from the inside?


I have no idea why I'm asking this...
Henrah

Thank you for trying to make the situation lighter then it is. Both.

[pianistimo]

you really should become a writer, ingagrozyna (in case you aren't already).  i suggest inviting as many really good looking girls as you can - and make him think he's died and gone to heaven when he reaches the top of the stairs.  remind him, before the recital, that he has to clean up really good - and perhaps use a little aftershave.  tell him the girls expect it.  don't let him know that none of them play piano.

[penguinlover]

That's a great idea pianistimo!  You appeal to his sense of dignity, but get your point through in a subtle manner!

[ingagroznaya]

You, guys, are really priceless sometimes...

Pianistimo, you've described the reality, not a dream. Most of my students are female. It just happened that as of today - ALL of them are in fantastic shape, very attractive, sophisticated, and secure young women ( I fired all the rest... for attitude and lack of practicing ). I'll tell the guy that he's invited directly into heaven, so he better clean up and sleep enough before the event. Or else! Or... or... there'll be no flirting for the "poopy pants"! ( I know him, he'll listen. )


p.s. Dear Pianistimo you can call me "Grozyna" only behind my back, as it's a teasing version of "Groznaya" in Russian and I am very serious about being "Mean" ( that's what "Groznaya" stands for ).

[gyzzzmo]

I only had students who almost fell apart because they were so reumatic. But dying? nope

gyzzzmo

[arbisley]

you seem to have the weirdest students..... and weridest stories to tell!
Like my stories, i have a lot to tell and they're all very long, but I can;t be bothered now.
and I'm only 16 and sound like an old man.

And I admire you for your courage in actually doing all of this for him, he'll remember you as one of the most generous and friendly people in his life.

I just don't know what to say, it's hard having to get on with sick, tired, old, disabled people, but when you do, the effort is every inch worth it.
If you can get him to finish off the piece nicely (what is it by the way?), that would probably be the most you can do for him.

Have fun at the recital!

[ingagroznaya]

He pass. He past away over two months ago. I went to his funeral. I guess there was no fu... I guess there are no funerals in America. It's all looked good. There was his smiling photograph in the dining room and he looked way too present to grieve. It was for the first time I met his son. He is a professional musician. Well known... His son in law he never liked. I could see why. He was terribly handsome and liked American football ( not classical music ).
I smiled. I laughed. The atmosphere was very cheerful. Maybe it was just me? I was keep pinching my self, why am I so happy. The gathering was not a funeral at all, it's called "the celebration of his life". The was no Chopin Sonata played by some awful squeaky instruments.

His tuition invoice was packed neatly in the envelope .... with a perfect late fee. He was never late. In all four years he never missed a lesson...he would come even for 15 minutes when he was very very sick. His legs would swell up so much, he could not put his socks or shoes on. Sometimes I'd see him in this state and thought to my self :" He'd drive here nekid if he would only manage to drive". I was not kidding about dying at the piano. This guy was not willing to waste a moment of his life.

His son wrote me an e-mail to meet for lunch. I JUST COULD NOT. I could not even answer... I was postponing to...too late. He lives in another city.  It's very odd because all of my students also got his son's  e-mail ( we have a cool network  to keep us together. His son answered, using his dad's computer ).
I can not grasp that he is gone. I stressed over a grace note and lost my confidence... over what? Over a grace note?
I sleep with my lights on . I feel like he will walk in one day or night and I'll be startled. I have been sleeping with my lights on for over two months. I don't feel he is dead. I do so much regret not meeting his son, because it probably would give me some sense of closure. Yet, I was not ready.

This men had such a wonderful influence on me, why do I feel as I feel?

[ingagroznaya]

I am so grateful to you, guys, because he played on that recital. It was his first and his last.
He could not wait to get started... He went first, when everyone was so fearful .

I want to thank you again for all of your thoughtful comments.

[pars]

Gosh, what a thread. I can understand how you feel. In my occupation, theres rarely a month goes by when one of my older peeps doesn't kick the bucket, and it's sad when you have got to know them so well, caring for them.

When I was young I made a point of not going to funerals at all. I just could not do it. I guess over the years I must have got used to it.

Sounds like you did exactly the right thing by your old friend. Don't beat yourself up for not contacting the son, at the end of the day you are a professional, just providing a service, and maybe best not to get too emotionally involved now. You have done admirably.

Pars

[pianistimo]

he went first?  first with piano and first with death.  there always has to be someone to lead the way.  the thing is - even if someone does it gracefullly - there has to be a bit of fear and trepidation to take the final plunge.  don't think about it yet, ingagroznya.  you're way too young.  this is a topic for 60 plus.  they get newsletters and health bulletins.  it keeps them thinking positively about dying.  they learn 'how to die without pain.'  there's tricks and tips people learn.  walk around the emergency room when having a heart attack.  it's better than waiting in a cot for 2 hours - only to have the nurse turn around backwards and you fall over straight on your head without pillow supports or bed supports to hold you up.  much better to end up happy near a trash can in the back of the hospital.  free.  free of restraints.  free of paperwork.  free of cellular phones.  or better yet - when you feel that day approaching - just taking up mountain climbing and getting frozen near the top.  it's painless.  tax free.  nobody knows where you went.  the kids don't have to worry about burial expenses.

about that 'grace note.'  that's like what happens near the end of life.  you trip and some minor fall - causes you to end up in a wheel chair or something.  that's the grace note?  those unexplicable moments that forever change the rest of the piece.  but, is it all fate?  no. i don't think so.  i think some of it is relaxing and leaving it to God.  the parts that are needful of 'grace.'  then, the notes can be fast or slow or whatever - and the 'grace' is still there.  amazing grace notes.   

[penguinlover]

Ingagroznaya,
   I am sorry for your loss.  I know you will miss him, and I think it is OK to turn off your lights now.  I haven't gone through this with a student, just parents.  You will always miss them.  I like the idea of celebrating his life.  My mom's funeral was the most uplifting service I have ever been to.  The church was packed, and we had just a great worship time.  I go to a lot of funerals, it is kind of in my line of service (my husband is a pastor).  And I don't wear black!

   Again, let me say I feel for you.  Time doesn't heal the hurt, but it lessens the pain after a while.

[pianistimo]

perhaps my joking was out of line.  actually, if a student or friend has symptoms of a stroke - my husband said to use the STR method.  ask them to 'smile' (if they have had a stroke - they'll only get one half of their mouth up).  ask them to 'talk' - they won't be able to complete the sentence you tell them to repeat.  and lastly, ask them to 'reach' or hold both arms up at shoulder height.  if one arm is down - possibility of stroke there.  get them to the hospital.  and seriously, if treated within three hours - there is huge chance of recovery.

i'm sorry to for the sadness and sleeplessness induced by having a student die.  really can't imagine it.  perhaps it is never too late to call the son.  after all, there aren't deadlines for these kinds of things.  you could tell him that you were deeply affected by his death and appreciate having the time to reflect on his 'presence.'  or, just send him a card and explain - wishing him peace.  really, life is hard for those that are left and probably pretty good for those that are dead.  after all, the bible refers to it as 'sleep.'  if you believe in the ressurrection - you'll see the person again - and that is a source of great comfort.