Fait/destiny.

[zheer]

     You know i believe in destiny, in arabic they call it  "kismet" or fortune. Infact i would go as far as saying that most things that happen to us in life happens for a very good reason, a reason which is often out of our control. I can safely thats most peoples lives including my own has been a product of external events, events which are not within our control. For instance where i live , which school i went to, what i studied, the friends i had, the places i visited and where i am now has not been planed by me at all, "kismet".
     What are your beliefs on destiny and is it true to you, any storys to tell? 
 

[pianowolfi]

     You know i believe in destiny, in arabic they call it  "kismet" or fortune. Infact i would go as far as saying that most things that happen to us in life happens for a very good reason, a reason which is often out of our control. I can safely thats most peoples lives including my own has been a product of external events, events which are not within our control. For instance where i live , which school i went to, what i studied, the friends i had, the places i visited and where i am now has not been planed by me at all, "kismet".
     What are your beliefs on destiny and is it true to you, any storys to tell? 
 

I believe in karma. I think our destiny is, not only but also, caused by previous lives. That's one side of the coin. The other is that I believe our destiny is guided by our higher self. This higher self knows much more than our normal self. Its goal is to guide us more and more into freedom, wisdom and self-determination. the more we develop a relationship to this higher self the more we know about our destiny. the more we learn to enlarge our normal self into the dimensions of the higher self the more conscious we become. Conscious not only about what happens but also about the real  causes of what happens, the causes of life.

[zheer]

  That sounds very spiritual, i like spirtuality, but am not too sure about reincarnation. The fact is we know so little about the world we live in and the after-life. But what puzzles me is that if we are so equal, why are we so different, you know i was thinking this morning that through-out history we have had some amazing people, people that have changed our world, surly they have been sent by god.

[pianowolfi]

  That sounds very spiritual, i like spirtuality, but am not too sure about reincarnation. The fact is we know so little about the world we live in and the after-life. But what puzzles me is that if we are so equal, why are we so different, you know i was thinking this morning that through-out history we have had some amazing people, people that have changed our world, surly they have been sent by god.

Finally we're all sent by god i think, not only the outstanding personalities. Karma then makes us different. That's my explication for that phenomenon.

[pianistimo]

i believe only cats have nine lives.  that is because they live so long - it appears that they should have had nine lives. 

i think each of us is like a snowflake.  entirely unique.  noone else, to my way of understanding, has ever existed like us - nor ever will.  the reason i say that - is what would God do at the judgement if he got confused.  He'd inadvertently send the wrong person to hell (or the second death - the lake of fire).  i , for one, to not want to be mistaken on the chance that i'm going the other direction.

it is very interesting to know what 'kismet' really means.  i thought it was an arabic word for kiss a belly dancer on first meeting.  that is because i saw a musical entitled 'kismet' and so i just thought 'ok.  there's belly dancers and they probably get kissed.'  well, i did have an inkling it meant something else - but that's what it meant in my head.

today, after attending a messianic congregation meeting on the day of 'atonement' (yom kippur)- i heard a sermon about life and death and how life is very closely related to death because it is a reality for all of us.  past cultures incorporated death into their rituals just as much as life - and for them, perhaps burial wasn't such a tragedy because they also believed in the after life.

if one believes that there is something to come - then there is actually a sort of hope in 'whether we live or die to Christ.'  i add, to Christ - because i think we can also live for another 'god.'  this other god is the god of hades or death.  he has a certain control over death - because he initiated sin.  but, as i understand it from a judeo-Christian ethic - Christ overcame BOTH sin AND death.  so, if he now sits at the right hand of God - he is a sort of 'high priest' and 'king' at the same time.  he atones for our sins by his own faithful and righteous life (which we could never hope to attain in this lifetime). 

i think ancient people accepted this much more readily than 20-21st century people.  with the advent of so much knowledge - it is thought that God is not that important.  that somehow we control much more than we do.  i think the reason i identify with Beethoven is that he actually agreed that God is in control.  that we have to 'let go - and let God.'  the reason i say this is because he turned away from suicidal thoughts and let God be the final judge and arbiter in his life.  to my understanding...the likes of beethoven and mozart and haydn and handel and bach and mendelssohn- is that they used music to express a believe in a higher being (God) and worship came first and then self.  not the other way around. 

of course, all of us are tempted to think we are mostly in control.  but, take away one thing.  ie food/water - and we are reduced to nothing.  also, God controls the weather, the governments of the world (allowing who he wishes to be in control of so many people), the seas, the heavens.  He is awesome in power...  there is none like Him in the ressurrection of the dead.  i think there is one place that says something about the judgement and that ALL will give account individually.  if this is so - then we should fear God out of respect - and not fear Him because we love to sin.  of course, sin is more appealing.

during the service today - a litany (which is usual for a jewish service) of possible sins and transgressions was gone through.  one of which was 'light-headedness.'  now that one, i had to think about.  did they mean drinking or foolishness or simply being light-headed.'  anyway, as a congregation everyone prays that they will be righteous before God at the judgement - and that he will forgive our sins and keep our names in the book of Life.  often on this day - jews will go with their children and throw pieces of bread into a river - indicating the idea that we want to let go of sins and live a better life in the next year.  i'm not jewish - but i find these ideas encouraging because a specific action is taken to show that sin is not something that we should cherish and hold on to.

but, all the good action and all - is as 'filthy rags' because we can become over righteous and think too much of ourselves.  there is sin on both sides.  so - then - instead of giving up - we have an example - who lived a perfect life - and yet - as it says in isaiah was 'despised.'  He was actually despised when He lived among us - because He was righteous.  the curse of our sins fell on him - and He died a horrendous death.  it didn't signify that he was evil - but it signified that the penalty of sin (to God) is very bad.  it is a reminder to us of the final judgement.  something we don't often think about. 

several composers have written on themes of the dies irae which people used to literally believe.  nowdays, if you ask people if they believe there is a judgement - they might laugh.  some think life is hard enough now - why worry about a judgement.  but, as Christ gave a parable of lazarus and the rich man - He reminds us not to be carried away by our own lives and our own riches.  but, to care for others.  there is no condemnation in love.  love covers a multitude of sins.  so - if you're far from rightous - just start doing random nice things for people.  none of us is perfect anyways.  it's the attempt that counts to God. 

sometimes our own sins catch up with us physically.  i do believe that certain things happen in life to teach us a better way.  after David committed adultery with Bathsheba, even though God forgave him - he also dealt him a blow.  he said that 'the sword' would be against his house after that, also that other men would sleep with his wives in broad daylight, and that the firstborn child of bathsheba would die.  it is interesting on this note, too, because not many people today really believe that our actions have consequences.  but, in science - it is obvious.  you do this - this happens. 

in the bible days - israel was often admonished to not marry foreign wives - because they worshipped other gods.  but, israel has been lost and the 'covenant' has long been broken.  the only way that the bible says the covenant will be brought back to life - is the second advent of Jesus Christ - as our Lord and King.  to rule a new earth - one where swords will be turned to plowshares and spears into pruning hooks - neither will nation lift up sword against nation...'  isaiah was written WELL before Christ came and yet isaiah 53 prophecied his coming.

'who could have believed what we have heard?  to whom has the power of the Lord been revealed?'  (God shows who his prophets are by the fact that His Word never returns to Him empty or void - and prophecies are always fulfilled exactly as foretold)

isaiah goes on to say, 'He grew up before Him (God) like a tender shoot, and like a root out of parched ground (he had a difficult childhood); He has no stately form or majesty that we should look upon Him, nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him (this is confirmed by the times in the NT that say He easily got lost in a crowd).  He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows, and aquainted with grief; and like one from whom men hide their face, He was despised, and we did not esteem Him (he was beaten and killed for no reason).

Surely our griefs He himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; yet we ourselves esteemed Him striken, smitten of God (we thought he deserved it) and afflicted.  But he was Pierced (he was pierced after death by a javelin - after it was found there was no need to break his legs as He was already dead - and out came blood and water) through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well being fell upon Him, and by His scourging (even foretold his scourging before crucifixion) we are HEALED.'

something good came of all of this - and God foretold it before it happened so that we might BELIEVE!

All of us like sheep have gone astray...He did not open His mouth (he was silent before Pilate).  By oppression and judgement He was taken away (died); and as for His generation, who considered that He was cut off out of the land of the living (he had no living generation - as he did not marry or have any indecent relationship - and therefore no children).  For the transgression of my people TO WHOM THE STROKE WAS DUE.  (this is very plainly telling us that WE deserved this kind of death for SIN - but as a just God - he took the penalty Himself - considering us in mercy = the very opposite of the way HE was judged by us).

[ahinton]

i believe only cats have nine lives.  that is because they live so long - it appears that they should have had nine lives.

As a cat owner myself (although even as I so describe myself, I remember the opening of a letter-to-the-editor in a major UK daily newspaper a while ago that ran "a cat I know owns two friends"), may I be allowed to suggest that I think that "pianistimi" may have a not dissimilar quantity thereof...

'it must be.'  at the end of the 'grosse fuge' by beethoven ('hunka fudge' for thal)

No - it's not where you say it is but in the finale of Beethoven's last completed piece, his String Quartet No. 16 in F, op. 135 - "Muss es sein? Es muss sein!"...

i think each of us is like a snowflake

You mean the moment the outside air temperature gets above about a degree above the freezing point of water, we're a-goner; well, what a nice life, I don't think!...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

the grosse fugue WAS the last movement of the string quartet.  and, then a friend of beethovens decided to turn it into a two piano, four hands arrangement - and beethoven said 'no, no ... i'll do this myself - thank you.'  he changed a few things - like elongating the beginning 'G' - which makes me wonder if it is a reference to the eternity of God? 

interesting about cats owning two or more people - and i think it's fairly true for cat owners such as yourself (which i didn't know - and am pleased to find out).  the children do things out of necessity - but my husband and i have royally spoiled this cat.  but, she reciprocates sooo much.  she curles up and purrs like she is content to just be with us most all the time. and if i go outside gardening, she is right there watching.  she catches mice right and left ad shows them off at the front door.  and, despite her age with the last child- she saved her from a snake - by catching it and throwing it.  many years ago she also woke us all up in the middle of the night when a toilet was overflowing.  i know, crazy love - but animals always seem to return the favor.  even if they do demand feedings and going in and out at odd hours. 

maybe snowflakes imply freezing - but i was meaning individuality.  that noone could be past, present, or future - us.  (in the singular).  the fact that no two snowflakes are exactly alike seems to prove that the impossible IS possible for God.  there's nothing He can't do.  we just can't understand how one God can do so much.

[ahinton]

the grosse fugue WAS the last movement of the string quartet.  and, then a friend of beethovens decided to turn it into a two piano, four hands arrangement - and beethoven said 'no, no ... i'll do this myself - thank you.'

at least that's what i read.

Yes - but wrong quartet. The Grosse Fuge is the finale of Beethoven's Quartet No. 14 in B flat, but the "Muss es sein? - es muss sein!" comes from his final quartet, as i wrote eralier.

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

hmm.  i must have misread it.  i trust your judgement.  after all, you ARE a composer.  and, i tend to get things mixed up in my head.  in any case, it was the end of one those string quartets and the B-flat quartet sounds like the right one.

[thalbergmad]

As a cat owner myself

Let me try to guess its name.

Is it Opuss Catisclawhiskerium.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

eralier.

?

[ahinton]

Let me try to guess its name.

Is it Opuss Catisclawhiskerium.

Thal

Nice one, but I have two of them, neither of which has that name. Never mind - at least it evidences your awareness that "Opus Clavicembalisticum" means "Kitten on the Keys"...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

?

Yes, my typing often displays a Sorabjian virtuosity, for any confusion caused by which I apologise unreservedly.

Bset,

Asilnadir

[pianowolfi]

The fate and destiny of threads like this seems to be that they go way off topic very soon.

[berrt]

the fact that no two snowflakes are exactly alike seems to prove that the impossible IS possible for God.  there's nothing He can't do.  we just can't understand how one God can do so much.

What about the old paradoxon (medieval, i think):
Can god make a rock, so heavy, he can NOT lift it?

The prove that "almighty" is a contradiction in itself.

B.

[pianistimo]

His burden is light.  the heavy one belongs to the other 'god.'

If he were limited by time and space - which includes rocks - he would be limited to the physical.  Christ is 'likened' to a rock - but He doesn't have to lift himself because He is spirit.  Spirit is like energy.  you don't have to pick it up.

[penguinlover]

I believe that we were all created for a purpose.  My purpose is different than anyone else's.  Mankind was created first to be in fellowship with God.  Knowing Him should be our first priority in life.  Then our second should be becoming like Him.  We will never Be God, but letting Him change us into His likeness should be our goal.  People are so unhappy with life many times, and that is because they really do not know God.  After that relationship is secure, everything else falls in place.

[berrt]

His burden is light.  the heavy one belongs to the other 'god.'

If he were limited by time and space - which includes rocks - he would be limited to the physical.  Christ is 'likened' to a rock - but He doesn't have to lift himself because He is spirit.  Spirit is like energy.  you don't have to pick it up.

i did not really hope to get now and here an answer to a question many people are pondering about for several hundret years.

At least "he can do anything" cannot be.

B.

[leahcim]

What are your beliefs on destiny and is it true to you, any storys to tell? 

I imagine most successful people believe in destiny.

That is, in the sense, they're glad others believe in it