Boys, I need your help with what to say to this guy.

[lagin]

Okay, in a nut shell, I'm interested in this guy who sometimes works at the same construction sites as my dad.  I dropped an invoice off for my dad to his boss and he answered the door, and well, yeah......  so he doesn't actually "know" me, but my dad has talked about me to him before.  And I've only seen him once .  So I figure, nothing ventured, nothing gained.  I'm going to mail him a little friendly note telling him that my dad said some nice things about him and that he seems a nice guy, and does he want to swap emails, as I could always use another friend. 

Now the debate between my parents is, my dad says tell him that I think he's cute (cause apparently guys like a little forwardness), but don't include a picture of myself (to remind him of the time I met him cause it was quite a while ago).  My mom says, definately include a picture instead of telling him he's cute or even on top of telling him. 

Guys, how forward should I be?  What's too forward?  I need male opinions here because you guys think differently from us girls!  Thanks.

[jpianoflorida]

play the friendship thing....don't tell him you think he's cute, etc......he will think you are a stalker!   just my opinion.........come up with some reason for the email...ask him a question about his profession or opinion about something to do with what his job is, then mention that you got his email from your dad and that your dad said he was "knowledgeable"etc,      the way he responds will open the door for more correspondence or it will let you know where to go from there.     Basically you will be finding out if he's interested in a new friend, dating, or if he already has a girlfriend.   Personally I would get a "red flag" if a girl sent me an email saying i'm cute or she's interested, etc etc..play it cool....

[jpianoflorida]

ps: of course i may be a little paranoid, I've had a few intances over the years of married female students(ok, and one male lol) develop an infactuation that made me very uncomfortable.....this may be a new thread-----     students developing crushes on the teacher.

[leucippus]

I don't believe there's any such thing as being too forward (unless you're overbearing about it)

I wish women who were interested in me would speak up and make their interest known.  Otherwise I'm left to wonder whether they might be involved with someone else, etc, etc.

If you're interested in someone I say act on it.  And if you think he's cute would like him to know that you feel that way then say so.  Women seem to like confidence in a man, well nothing boosts confidence better than being reassured that someone is attracted to you.

I believe in open honesty.  Seems to me to be the best policy.

[_____]

Just grow some balls & do whatever you feel is necessary. Whatever happens after that is for future lagin to figure out.

[gruffalo]

yea, i would say just go for it. i agree with leucippus. i always find out that a girl liked me, but too late because they didnt bother saying or acting on anything. but saying that, theres a difference between showing interest in a guy and throwing yourself at him. respect yourself aswell.

Gruff

[thalbergmad]

Just grow some balls

If she did that, he might not be impressed.

Just a thought.

Thal

[sharon_f]

Wow, I'm not sure.

You dropped off an invoice, once, quite some time ago. That's it? Did you have a conversation with him? How much does your Dad know about him? Is he married? Does he have a girlfriend?

You said your Dad has talked about you to him. Did he express any interest in meeting you? If so, maybe your Dad could say something like "Well, she's not seeing anyone right now, did you want to give her a call?"

Can you manage to meet him again and try to strike up a conversation? If he shows any interest in you then maybe you can make the next move.  And the next move might be....?  I don't know, give him your phone number.

[_____]

If she did that, he might not be impressed.

Just a thought.

Thal

It'd be a conversation starter, at the very least.

[lagin]

Well, Sharon, in answer to your question, my dad has only chatted it up with him about me once after I expressed interest, and he did ask how old I was, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.  They way I look at it is, I really don't care what he thinks about me (it would be nice if he liked me, but if he doesn't that's okay too) so I have nothing to lose if he doesn't respond so why not just send a little card.  Going to work with my dad could be an option if he didn't leave from 3 - 5 in the morning (no joke! ), and come home after 6.  (He's self employed).  And there's really nothing I could do on a construction site.  My dad could be an excellant go between except wouldn't that kind of scare a guy off, dealing with a "dad?" 

[sharon_f]

Actually, I know of a couple of people who have been "fixed up", for want of a better term, by a parent. I actually think sending a note to someone you have met only once awhile ago is just a little too creepy stalker.

[pianistimo]

i can't help it!  i'm not a boy - but neither is sharon, and since you did include responses in the first message for girls - then i'm going to speak up.  i think you should just drop it for now.  focus on yourself.  not on any one particular guy.  if he's interested, he'll be asking your dad more about you as time goes on.

of course, out of sight out of mind.  just take a pillow along and sleep in until 8 am - and then, look lost.  tell him you don't know where you are.  that you were kidnapped and just happened to land in a construction site where your dad is working (and he).  try to touch everything.  that will force him to continually follow you around telling you not to touch.  electrocute yourself if need be.  just slightly.  you know, when he stops ignoring you - and looks over - hold onto a wire and start gyrating.  at least you'll get hit with a broom the first day.  that will make him feel guilty.  i say - go for the guilt factor.  you got hurt on his construction site.  he must make you feel better.  take you out to dinner. 

[lagin]

Right, but you guys do have to remember, that we will never see each other again, unless I make some sort of move, so even if he thinks I'm wierd, who cares?  I'm not even going to be in this province in another couple years, and I wouldn't see him even if I did stay.  I never go to the construction sites (that invoice wasn't even to a site, it was to a guy who my dad is building a house for, and this guy just happens to room and board with him and answered the door).  My dad only bumps into him maybe once a month for a day when they're on the same site, and he never knows when that will be.  My dad is good friends with his boss (the guy he rooms with), as his boss hires my dad to wire alot of house for him.  This guy I like just offered to hold something for my dad once, and my dad, knowing I was interested, chatted it up with him a bit.  So If I do drop it, which I can, that's it.  The end.  And if I don't drop it, and he thinks I'm wierd, then that's it, the end.  Same outcome!  BUT if I don't drop it, and he responds, then we've made some progress, no? 

Look okay, I was going to send him a letter along the lines of "Hey, we met very briefly a couple months back when I dropped off that invoice for my dad.  Anyways, I know this sounds ridiculously forward of me, but I was wondering if you wanted to swap emails or something.  My dad speaks very highly of you whenever he works with you, and he told me that you're a Christian, too, so you sounded like good friend material to me!"  And just go on to say that I have some girl and guy friends, but could always use another guy friend as they are more fun to talk to then girls because we can be so difficult sometimes!  You know, keeping it kind of funny.  And just saying if he's interested in another friend to let me know and give me email and phone number.  And just close with "nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?"  With my name and then maybe put in a p.s.  something like, "Besides, I'm not going to lie to you - I think you're really cute!"  Or something that kind of lets him know that I'm interested, but still keeping it sort of funny?


Yes?  No?

[thalbergmad]

Lagin - there is nothing worse in life than "not knowing".

The vast majority of men would be flattered to be approached by a woman, myself included.

Get down to the building site and talk to the man.

Thal

PS I apologise for this sensible post which is totally out of character.

[quantum]

Lagin, I randomly agree with thal's out of character post. 

Make contact. 

[ted]

Yes, I agree with Thal and Quantum. Psychological games and strategies are a tedious waste of time. Be straightforward, it's easier in the long run, both for you and for other people.

[lagin]

Okay, now one last thing.  My dad has just offered to "set us up," so to speak because he's planning on working in the same place as him mid - next week.  He was going to feel him out to see if he's the type of lad that would prefer me to just contact him personally, or if he's the type of lad that would feel more comfortable if my dad just said, hey why don't you take my daughter out for coffee, I'm sure she'ld love to go.  Of course, he'ld put it better than that and ease into it.  How would you guys feel about that?  Should I let me dad talk with him one dude to another on the building site, and do the offering for me?  Or should I just tell me dad to talk to him, but don't set anything up and I'll do it myself?  Or perhaps I should just trust my dad's judgement in assessing which the lad would prefer and then go from there? 

[thalbergmad]

There are certain things in life we let our parents do for us and certain things we do not.

Speaking as a male, i would think it very strange to be approached by a girls father. That would probably put me off completely. You gotta do this one yourself, however difficult you might find it.

The worst thing he can say is no.

Good luck.

Thal

He was going to feel him out ? 

I thought thats what you wanted to do.

Sorry, my normal stupidity has returned.

[pianistimo]

lagin,  stop!  before it is too late!  take a giant eraser and start erasing a few thoughts.  one of which is 'this man is the one.'  how do you know.  why must you become so desperate over this one guy.  you have not told us why he deserves you.  take 10 steps backwards and tell us all the things that you WANT in a guy.  how do you know this man will fulfill any one of them.  what if the guy next door that whines all the time about how you won't go out with him - is really the one - and this hot looking guy is a loser. 

start your list.  focus on yourself and your music.  forget the idea that you have to do anything.  take a class or go to the mall.  chill.  look at the thousands of guys out there.  there are many christians, btw.  pray.  if this guy is the one - he'll come looking for you.  start dressing just a little more on the less-really conservative side.  i mean - no ankle length dresses.  surprisingly, all it takes is a couple inches above the knee and a good pair of heels.  go for some dancing classes or something you love to do - and just get involved in that.  have a datebook and fill it up with things that you are doing and want to do.  then, when he calls  - say 'can you wait one minute, i have to check my calendar.'  put him off a day or two.  if he's serious, he'll wait. 

the problem is...imo, with good looking guys - you get sidetracked from your list.  read your list aloud in the morning and possibly at night.  perhaps a list of all the things you want.  and then, also, a list about yourself - of the things you are and the things you want to improve.  go about making improvements.  it's harder, once you are married to have all this complete time for yourself. 

[lagin]

Don't worry, like I said earlier, I don't care what he thinks, meaning if he says no, then okay, whatever, but it's worth a shot.  And I'm not asking him to go out with me.  I'm just asking to be friends with him so I can get to know him.  I mean, going out to coffee or swaping emails doesn't mean we're a "couple."  That's why my original question was how much, if at all, do I show any interest?  I totally know what I want in a guy, and my standards are extremely high, so no worries there.

 Let me share my life with you so you understand why I am making the first move per say (btw, my mom made the first move with my dad, too).  Monday, practice 6 hours, surf the net, watch movies.  Tuesday, practice 6 hours, surf the net, teach some nice elderly people piano.  Wednesday, practice 6 hours, surf the net, usually do laundry.  Thursday, practice 4 hours, drive 1 hour to my lesson, have my lesson in the middle of no where with my teacher with no students before or after me, drive 1 hour home, SOMETIMES swing into town on the way home to do some pressing errands, but never to just hang out.  Then teach another little girl piano.  Friday, practice 6 hours, surf net, movie, Saturday, the same, but add some yard work, Sunday the same.  I live in the middle of nowhere (nearest fast food restaurant is 40 minutes away).  My neighbors are my parents and an elderly couple and the bears and raccoons.  I do not "hang out."  And when I do it's once a month for a few hours when my friend comes back from working out of province for a weekend.  I don't go to youth groups, ect.  They all start too late at night for my taste.  I don't socialize.  Once a month I go to town with my mom and we hang out together.  So I besides my parents and the person that lives on the other side of them, oh, and my teacher, I only literally see another living soul about 2x a month.  Once with my mom, and once with my friend Dez.  Those are the 2 people I 'hang out' with.  Hence why it's impossible for anyone to ask me out. 

And no, I'm not shy, I'm just focused on my career, which requires alot of practicing and when I'm done that, my brain is fried and I just like to veg.  No, I'm not desparate.  Occassionally I do meet a guy, and occassionally they do fall for me, and I've turned everyone of them down to this day (hence the high standards).  Unless it counts when I was 13 and I asked my old neighbor if he wanted to be my boyfriend, to which he agreed, until later I said I didn't want him to anymore ( I don't even think we ever held hands, but we did have a cool tree fort we made!). 

Yeah, I'm rambling, but I wanted you to get a broader picture of what my life is like.  I don't think dressing differently would make a difference (btw, I'm not going to change the way I dress to please a guy.  I dress how I dress, and it's nice, it's femine, and it's conservative, and I don't care what any guy thinks.  Now, if I was going on a real date to somewhere special, then I would dress the same except extra nice.  My skirts stay below the knees 90% of the time). 

So yeah, I want to go on a friendly date with him.  Ideally, I would just rather swap emails and chat that way.  And who knows, we might just stay friends once I get to know him better.  Except most guys that I know take off when they can't be anything more.  Oh, and Thal.  in regards to your joke.  You are talking to an 100% virgin here.  In fact, I'm not even planning on kissing until I'm married.  (Did I mention I have high standards?).  If a guy is willing to respect that, and like me for me, and not me for how physical I get, then he trully could be a keeper.  And no, I'm not some silly little school kid who thinks idealistically - I am in my 20s.

So, you're not going to talk me out of trying.  Like I said, I have absolutely completely 100% NOTHING to lose - not even my pride because I will never see him again either way, unless he says yes to being friends. 

It's just a matter of decide how I will go about it, and how much interest do I communicate when I do, if any.

So, that's all for now folks.

[pianistimo]

sorry to go on.  my daughter is sure she is going to have a cook, a maid, a housecleaner - as she wants to be a professional.  i don't hinder her from her dreams - but try to make housework look attractive - to no avail.  in any case, my mother, and probably her mother before her - encouraged at least one or two classes in cooking.  after all, you're going to be doing a heck of a lot of it.  if there is one thing i would have done - it would have been to take classes II and III.  i took I and learned the basics.  can you imagine the happiness of that factor alone?  a wife who knows how to cook.

this may sound silly and strange.  but all these things take time to learn.  also, organization.  i used to be the world's worst mess maker and always claimed that time did not allow me to be organized.  now, you may be the exact opposite - but don't let it detract from your taking a few classes in financial preparation and how to keep things financially in order (and possibly some investing classes).

another things is home decorating and gardening.  not everyone loves the same types of things - but you have to admit - there are many things you can do that will SAVE MONEY.  and, also, right now is the time to get yourself as healthy as possible.  the next 10 -20 years may zap a lot out of you.  so the healthier you are - the better for yourself and your children.  take a fitness class and start eating and drinking and sleeping as healthily as possible.

there's a book at amazon.com entitled 'finding your knight in shining armour:discovering your lifelong love'  in this book, it explains a great idea.  to just set six months ahead of yourself as preparation.  just as with construction - you look for location (what sort of life you are wanting), and with prayer - a foundation that is solid, and also, to build upon it some kind of preparation for a man to be proud of.  you probably already have most of this - but sometimes it is good to just start buying stuff, too.  women in past centuries had many things already prepared.  today, it's almost unheard of.

start your list of registry items on a thread of your own and friends and family can contribute even before you are engaged or even dating.  who says you have to be engaged to have a registry.  i think this is the ultimate sort of pampering for any woman.  especially on birthdays and holidays- refer people to items you will need to live either on your own or with someone when married.  and, don't put out a list of cheap items.  pick what you really want.  sometimes, i think, christian women tend to think too humbly and not value what they want - and put themselves last.  put jewelry on the list, ok.  and furniture.  every year - get your dad to buy a couple of chairs.  in several years - at least you will have four for a table.  nice chairs.  who wants to start living with fold up chairs.

same with your wardrobe.  start expanding it and including things that you didn't have time to keep up with before.  perhaps get color analyzed.  this is a fun thing to do and something you can basically do on your own - if you don't want to spend a lot.  go to a fabric store - get 1000 swatches of different colored fabric.  put it into a ring.  and flip the fabric next to your face.  write down the colors that you like and that make you feel good - AND that have a good look when next to your face.  these are likely the same colors that you will feel comfortable and good in decorating your home with.

pick three or four colors and put them in your registry for towels, kitchen stuff, etc.  if you already have some kind of a color theme - things are much easier.  basically doing all this stuff keeps your mind occupied on what YOU want...what you are looking for... and not relying so much on a guy to fulfill or tell you about yourself.  starting to establish an identity of what your likes are. 

hope this doesn't sound too much like your mother - although as one gets older - you kind of listen to your mom more.  after all, they went through it first and probably have some tips for just relaxing.  lots of working out when you feel hyper.  get into shape and look and feel good.  that relaxes your mind too.  then, you can just let happen whatever is meant to happen. 

[lagin]

One, see the post I did right before you
Two, I already have my own place and is almost completely furnished and painted.
Three, I have been color analysed (I'm a "Spring")
Four, the book my mom has comes with all the color swatches already, and I just did redo my closet last month
Five, my mom cooks so healthy it's amazing.  We don't even eat almonds without soaking them first (aids in digestion!)  But you did remind me to take my vitamins which I've been neglecting!  (I live next door to them, and thus eat their food alot). 

Don't worry about me!  It's all good

[pianistimo]

i see what you mean about isolation.  hmmm.  and, you practice for quite a few hours per day.  sounds like you are serious about music.  it's great you have your own place, too. and, that you're so prepared.  good luck.  or should i say , blessings!

[lagin]

Thanks pianistimo!  Actually, when I was typing me life out, I was like, whoa, I'm a hermit!  I guess you don't realize how sheltered or out of the loop you are until you write it down!  Good thing it hasn't made me all wierd and antisocial!   Seriously, though, without the internet, I'd need to get out more.  But virtual friends are just as good as in person ones . 

Check your pm btw.

Also, sorry if it sounded like I was biting your head off up above.  My mom said I should be a lawyer.  I have the habit of arguing vehemently (sp?).

[jpianoflorida]

Thanks pianistimo!  Actually, when I was typing me life out, I was like, whoa, I'm a hermit!  I guess you don't realize how sheltered or out of the loop you are until you write it down!  Good thing it hasn't made me all wierd and antisocial!   Seriously, though, without the internet, I'd need to get out more.  But virtual friends are just as good as in person ones . 

ok....virtual friends aren't as good as in person ones, sorry!...you NEED to make some in person friends, we all need face to face talk, someone to have dinner with, someone to talk over a problem and just be there!   not to mention someone to help if you are sick, someone to take you to an appt when your car breaks down......   GET OUT THERE AND MAKE SOME FRIENDS...you don't need to stay isolated......

[jpianoflorida]

one more thing......         internet friends from this forum is great, but we don't really know much about each other , except what we all choose to tell and post! remember that!  we don't really see each others mannerisms, how we react to situations, etc......  and this forum is basically anonymous, you could leave it at anytime and that would be the end!  while is face to face friendships you have to face confrontations, etc which make us grow as people.     

[leahcim]

My mom said I should be a lawyer.  I have the habit of arguing vehemently (sp?).

Yes, but if you dressed up and went to ask, you'd have to stop doing something else to turn up to court if they said "yes" - if you see what I mean

That's to say, I'd just be surprised if someone who "won't do this, won't do that and won't do the other" for a guy is going to change their schedule either.

The schedule that you're saying is the reason you need to do this to get the guy in the first place.

Since you're going to have to change it if he says "yes" and since if you're asking, you evidently want someone in your life, then the same changes to your schedule now should mean you'd have some free time to be able to meet any number of friends and / or guys [the former of which will probably happily not kiss you ]

OTOH, if you really aren't going to change your schedule, what's the point in asking him?

[lagin]

Oh, I'm not going to change my schedule much.  I can't since I'm preparing to audition to university, but I can give up some internet/movie time to hang out!  I do make time for my friends when the come around, but like I said, my one friend that I hang out with is working out of province for this year, so we only see each other once a month.  My other friends all live everywhere but here, so we keep in contact with each other via the internet.  We all met at Bible school a few years back and still visit each other occassionally, but England and such is getting a bit far to travel~.  In fact, I'm attending a wedding of one this Dec.   But I might start going to the college and career group at our church because I met a girl a little while ago who invited me, so I'd go to hang out with her anyways cause we get on really well.   Just don't know because it's late at night again, and then I'm always so beat the next day.

If I have a friend, then I make time for them, but I'm not going to change my schedule just to go guy hunting.  You're definately right about that.  It so happened that I was just going to let this one go too, (due the impossibility of this working without some drastic stepping in) but my parents, (mainly my mom) are encouraging me to give it a try.  Which I'm only too happy to do!  And from what my dad tells me about him, I think we'ld get along great.  But even if we don't, that's okay too, because I'm not like my friends with a "need" to get hitched with someone, and even if we just stayed "friends" that's cool too, as I love talking with my guy friends (internet, of course, but I do know them in person as well).  I never have been really "into" boys.   I mean, I have the occassional crush, but if I were to stay single for another 7 years, that would actually be really convenient, because that's how long it's going to take me to finish my diplomas, get a bmus and a Master's degree.  Sure, I'm a girl, and it would be nice to have a guy, but it really isn't imperitive.  Btw, as super corny as this sounds, my mom is my best friend, and she would take me anywhere I needed to go, or to an appointment if need be, so no worries there.

P.S. I'm not actually a lawyer, but I'd be good at it if I was according to my mom.  I considered it, but went with teaching piano instead. 

P.P.S.  Don't misunderstand me.  I would dress up to meet a guy, but I wouldn't "change" my style of dress (ie, wearing shorter skirts just to be more "sexy") for a guy.  Sure, I might wear a skirt if the occasion called for it, but it would be a length that I am comfortable with. 

[jpianoflorida]

no offense meant here but lagin it seems to me you've just lived a very very sheltered life....if you are really happy with it, then that is great...but I'm not sure you are! you talk about your "high standard"...no one will ever meet your standards! and you are going to miss out on a lot in life by insisting that the people you are friends with meet your "standards".     Get to know people of all walks of life, relgions, ethnic backgrounds , etc.     I get the feeling you are in one of the "extremely conservative" religions...am i right about this?   and what is the reason you want even kiss until you are married? sorry I can't understand that at all!!    If you can find a guy who feels that way , i will be surprised.......  maybe I'm wrong....i hope some other guys will read this and give their opinion please.    I'm a Christian but I'm not dead--i have feelings and desires and I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all.   God made us sexual beings.   I use to be a lot more conservative when  I was in my former denomination, but I now I am much happier and realize the "legalism" of some churches is ridiculous and totallly nonbiblical.

[lagin]

Yes, I'm what you could say would be classified as "conservative."  And I'm happy with my life, very much so.  I feel very blessed to have had the life I have so far.  Totally agree with you, too, that many churches can be overly legalistic, though I find it more the opposite way these days.  I say, just stick with what God said on the lines, and stop trying to read between them!  But, my choice not to kiss, is trully a just a personal one. 

Btw, I have a date!  I totally just called him and was like, do you remember me?  Good, now bear with me as I go through the most ackward moment of my entire life......  And before I could even finish my speach, as soon as I mentioned going out for coffee, he was like, sure!  That's totally cool that you called me.  Turns out, he was wondering about me, too!  We just got of the phone after a 2 hour conversation that was simply wonderful.  My only concern now is that we're too much alike!

Anyhow, got to get to bed soon.  But of course, please don't let this shut down jpianoflorida's question.  I'd love to turn this into a thread about how guys feel about what I just said regarding kissing and such.  It could be totally interesting.   

[leahcim]

P.P.S.  Don't misunderstand me.

Sure, I wasn't implying that you are wrong in your choices.

TBH, Given that you just said you'd walk away I'd question your parents motives. Which you can obviously see better than we can from the few posts mentioning them.

But I'm getting the impression they could be encouraging your because they see your schedule and think you should "get out more". That said, perhaps their encouragement is simply because they saw your initial interest though. Your call, but I would do what you want to do - and indeed for the same reasons if you do send something I'd send what you wrote in reply #12 - because you wrote it, without the p.s.

[leahcim]

Get to know people of all walks of life, relgions, ethnic backgrounds , etc.

Yes, but I disagree slightly. We reject people based on such things every day for as many good reasons as there are bad ones.

Indeed, isn't it slightly patronising to get to know someone based on their religion, unless we accept that there is no political correctness is relationships - we pick who we want, it's not racist to only have black friends nor sexist or homophobic to only date women nor ageist to dance with 20 year olds or hang out with other folk from college.

I'm a Christian but I'm not dead--i have feelings and desires and I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all.   God made us sexual beings.

Whatever you do, extremely liberal or extremely conservative or in between, you'll find some it worked for and others it didn't - there's no right or wrong approach.

For example, I think you may find some men will happily sleep around because they aren't dead, but want a virgin bride who they'll happily not kiss because she's the one.

OTOH, people get married after long sexual relationships.

I wouldn't look for logic or the right way to act by listening to suggestions of what you will or won't find if you don't do this and that - your own ideas will probably be no more logical, will appear strange to others, but are no worse because of it.

Obviously it goes without saying, we evolved into sexual beings, and those emotions are powerful enough for guys and gals to say whatever it takes

[ada]

Well I am glad you've made contact and that things are working out lagin.

But I must say the concept of not kissing until you're married is just plain weird. Weird and pointless and wasteful and sad and ill-advised. The question is: why? This isn't a rhetorical question, I am really interested in understanding the reasoning behind this.

Also unfathomable is the though of a twenty-something-year-old getting her father to play matchmaker.

As is the thought of glory boxes, pre-marital cooking and investment classes and six month plans to finding your knight in shining armour.

Sometimes I read the posts here and think I must come from another planet.

[jpianoflorida]

I can understand what you are saying.....my point was more toward friendships and the fact that if she only chooses people who meet here "standards" she may be missing out on a lot of great people.....I'm saying get to know someone for who they are! especially in friendships... Dating is a little different.      Ok, no one has responded about what i said abou "internet friends"....      lagin said "internet friends were just as good as in person friends"...i disagree, let's here some opinions.

[ada]

Ok, no one has responded about what i said abou "internet friends"....      lagin said "internet friends were just as good as in person friends"...i disagree, let's here some opinions.

Internet relationships are probably more of an "easy cop-out" than offline ones.

I don't think you tend to have the same responsibility as when you have a 'real' relationship. If a friendship is entirely virtual you can cut out at any time; you can just disappear.

You can say things you might never think of saying face-to-face because you have the buffer of distance and the ramifications aren't as immediate. You can be a shameless flirt or a rude bastard, or an outspoken extrovery because you can hide behind anonmity. You can be whomever you want.

The virtual world is just a big illusion, isn't it?

By the same token, there are real people out there on the other side and you can fall for them or desire them or be hurt by them just as much as you can anyone in real life 

[thalbergmad]

Well I am glad you've made contact and that things are working out lagin.

But I must say the concept of not kissing until you're married is just plain weird. Weird and pointless and wasteful and sad and ill-advised. The question is: why? This isn't a rhetorical question, I am really interested in understanding the reasoning behind this.

Also unfathomable is the though of a twenty-something-year-old getting her father to play matchmaker.

As is the thought of glory boxes, pre-marital cooking and investment classes and six month plans to finding your knight in shining armour.

Sometimes I read the posts here and think I must come from another planet.

I agreed on all points, albeit i find it hard to admit.

If i was going out with a girl who refused to kiss before marriage, i would not be going out with them long. There has to be something to keep the interest going. Intellectual stimulation is not enough on its own.

Specifically, with the average Australian girl, you don't get any intellectual stimulation at all, but thankfully they don't seem to shy about the other.

Thal

[pianistimo]

and how would you know about australian girls?

[pianolist]

Sometimes I read the posts here and think I must come from another planet.

It's called Australia.

[thalbergmad]

and how would you know about australian girls?

I have been out with one and all the rest are clones.

Thal

[pianistimo]

oh.

lagin, do you see where this all leads.  it is a one way street to bringing up 'hot' girlfriends with no brains. 

walks off with lagin.   

and, as you for you ada, this is reprehensible.  you are responsible for the other half of the australian outback women who do have brains - but are omitted because they won't do pre-marital cooking or cleaning.

secretly, men always look for a little bit of that. 

shall i make a confession?  of a small sort.  i had made up my mind 'no kissing,' too.  it was sort of after the fact - because i'd kissed a previous boyfriend (or two).  but, i decided when i came to visit my now hubby that everything was going to be up and up.  so, we get engaged and then he says 'how will we know how to kiss for our wedding?'  so we had to practice, just a little bit.  it all seems kinda funny now - because my mom was sure i was pregnatn?  she thought that getting married in three weeks was due to some fooling around.  but, kissing was all.  and talking until 2 am.  but, i slept at another place (his office manager's house).   anyways, we decided to get married fairly quickly because kissing can and does lead to other things pretty fast - and we decided we couldn't wait a year.

[pianolist]

I was married to an Australian in the 1980s, and very happy indeed for seven years, until she swapped the nine cats and me for a newer model.

Having been absent for a few days, I'm glad lagin's life is sorting itself out, and it can only be good to have a variety of boyfriends when you are young, to grow a little and find out about yourself. But I do think music is a wonderful bond; my first wife was not a musician, and in the end this was probably important, though neither of us would have deliberately made it so.

You see what I mean, Pianistimo, about Australia being a different planet - I doubt Ada ever washes, and her diet probably consists of raw kangaroo and Vegemite, washed down with 4X.

See you all at Jonathan Powell's piano recital at 7.30 pm on Saturday 11 November, at the Warehouse, 13 Theed Street, London SE1. It's a Chopin and Beethoven programme, I believe.

www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formtype=address&addtohistory=&address=%5b14%2d10%5d%20Theed%20Street&city=London&state=&zipcode=SE1%208&country=GB&location=QuxrB0p%2f4%2f24T3x6ruGwSfOmmop7VQIPyg5bxQpq3c1bkoyy9wLGNAV99dVqmzzJ6%2brAgcI84ASzhIhLb433wb4Tk1XYTf9LXow7eTemci6YWtdgf3u1sgBV%2b4Sp580f&ambiguity=1

[pianistimo]

you're changing the subject slightly here, pianolist (btw, i didn't realize you were also an englishman! and - going to the powell concert, too?!  i've been dreaming about visiting england, but it is likely i will have to settle for a video recording of this show.  although now that i have a map - perhaps i'll just stand at the dock and wait).

so, you married an aussie.  now, what is it about australian women?  footloose and fancy free i guess.  always tanned?  stark white teeth?  a couple of years ago i was using a few bottles of sunless tanning lotion in the winter.  it did have a marked effect on attention.  but, it gets expensive to keep that up.  plus, i kidna wondered what it did to the skin.  i'm kinda pale in the winter.

[brewtality]

I was married to an Australian in the 1980s, and very happy indeed for seven years, until she swapped the nine cats and me for a newer model.

Having been absent for a few days, I'm glad lagin's life is sorting itself out, and it can only be good to have a variety of boyfriends when you are young, to grow a little and find out about yourself. But I do think music is a wonderful bond; my first wife was not a musician, and in the end this was probably important, though neither of us would have deliberately made it so.

You see what I mean, Pianistimo, about Australia being a different planet - I doubt Ada ever washes, and her diet probably consists of raw kangaroo and Vegemite, washed down with 4X.

If you're gonna stereotype, at least get your beers right. It's Foster's, the beer no aussies drink but everyone recognises as "australian". And XXXX is ghastly stuff enjoyed only by Queenslanders.

[leahcim]

Sometimes I read the posts here and think I must come from another planet.

You don't have change for a 100 drogna note?

[jpianoflorida]

thanks ada! you explained what i meant well!  I should have you edit my posts! lol

[ada]

If you're gonna stereotype, at least get your beers right. It's Foster's, the beer no aussies drink but everyone recognises as "australian". And XXXX is ghastly stuff enjoyed only by Queenslanders.

Too right about the XXXX. But wrong on the Fosters. Personally I prefer my raw kangaroo washed down a VB. When I don't have a Corona with a slice of lime and a Tequila chaser, that is.

I agreed on all points, albeit i find it hard to admit.

Thal

HAHA

You are so poned. That is the THIRD time you have grudgingly agreed with me. Ah is counting

[ahinton]

I doubt Ada ever washes, and her diet probably consists of raw kangaroo and Vegemite, washed down with 4X.

Doubt you may - but how can you be sure that she doesn't have three showers daily using expensive shower gels and enjoy a richly varied and nutritious diet washed down by Grange?

See you all at Jonathan Powell's piano recital at 7.30 pm on Saturday 11 November, at the Warehouse, 13 Theed Street, London SE1.
www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formtype=address&addtohistory=&address=%5b14%2d10%5d%20Theed%20Street&city=London&state=&zipcode=SE1%208&country=GB&location=QuxrB0p%2f4%2f24T3x6ruGwSfOmmop7VQIPyg5bxQpq3c1bkoyy9wLGNAV99dVqmzzJ6%2brAgcI84ASzhIhLb433wb4Tk1XYTf9LXow7eTemci6YWtdgf3u1sgBV%2b4Sp580f&ambiguity=1

I look forward to seeing you all there, too; thanks for supplying the map!

It's a Chopin and Beethoven programme, I believe.

And one other composer as well...

Best,

Alistair

[leahcim]

Internet relationships are probably more of an "easy cop-out" than offline ones.

Perhaps, but years before the internet, there was the disco, the hotel and the "I was going to call but I threw the cigarette packet away"

The virtual world is just a big illusion, isn't it?

A few years ago perhaps.

I think internet access used to be about computing, when Bill Gates hadn't heard of it.

Years passed, AOL gave away CDs and the internet was about computing, but more than that, about feeling superior to the other people on it.

Now I find it's computing, feeling superior yet more and more the people on my messenger program   / email inbox etc are friends and family I know in real life, because everyone's on the internet, just about.

The biggest danger now is stuff like my brother saying "Ever noticed on the internet yhu post a question to a computing board and some $"£% called 'leahcim' tells you you're a clueless £$%£" - "Really? That was you? Err, I mean...what are these people like...I'll come and fix it"

[ahinton]

Perhaps, but years before the internet, there was the disco, the hotel and the "I was going to call but I threw the cigarette packet away"

For those wishing to make use of them, there still is, n'est-ce pas? (apart from the fact that the "disco" as once it was has arguably changed almost beyond recognition)...

Best,

Alistair

[leahcim]

For those wishing to make use of them, there still is, n'est-ce pas? (apart from the fact that the "disco" as once it was has arguably changed almost beyond recognition)...

It sounds like you're still not sure.

Or in Aspergers "Years before x there was a b and c is not stating or implying that a b and c no longer exist but merely expressing the fact that chronogically they appeared first and thus if they were used together to "cop out" of relationships at that time the internet can be safely ignored as influencing the situation because it didn't exist. Whereas today, even if you used them it wouldn't rule out the possibility that the internet had been in some way involved. So I don't know why you asked, unless I am to assume that you are asking because you don't know if they still exist in which case I am reliably informed that cigarettes exist and are still put into packets at least that was true 3 months 1 week and 13 hours ago which is the last time I smoked possibly forever. Hotels exist, and discos can still be found"