Is this exercise set worth it ?

[drooxy]

Hi everyone !

I gave myself the objective to be at ease with chord progressions in all keys... Ambitious goal !

Inspired by a book I recently bought, I have set the following exercises that I will describe in the key of C:

Exercice 1:

 Md: C-E-G-B / D-F-A-C / E-G-B-D / ...
 Mg: C-G        / D-A       / E-B / ...

 (chords: I, II, III, ... or in other terms in the key of C: C7M, Dm7, Em7, ...)

Exercice 2:

 Md: E-B / F-C / G-D / ...
 Mg: C-G / D-A / E-B / ...

 (chords: I, II, III, ... Md playing the third and the
      seventh - fingers 1-5
                                 Mg playing the root and the
      fifth - fingers 5-1)

Exercice 3:

 Md: B-E / C-F / D-G / ...
 Mg: C-G / D-A / E-B / ...

 (chords: I, II, III, ... Md playing the seventh and the  
       third - fingers 2-5  
                                 Mg playing the root and the
       fifth - fingers 5-1)

While I do these exercises on a certain key, I also work on the corresponding scale (M and m).

I am currently working in the keys of C and Db and it seems to be a real heavy work to repeat that in all keys !

So my question: is that set of exercises worth it ?
 If no what should I be doing instead ?
 If yes, is there some other 'connected' exercises that I
   could do ? Also, should I be able, each time I play a
   chord, to recognize it - at least by saying mentaly
   its name ?

Thanks really for any answers to these questions !

Cordially,
Drooxy

[bernhard]

What is it exactly that you are trying to achieve by doing this exercise? There maybe more efficient ways.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[drooxy]

Thank you, first, for your answer.

In fact, I would like to give myself the means to accompany (and maybe improvise...) in any key.

The book I bought recommend to play the scale (I, II, III, etc.) in any key, the root (and 5th) being played by the left hand and the two positions (3rd & 7th or 7th and 3rd) played by the right hand.

(Later in the book, they explain how to add a 9th, 11th, ... to the two positions of the right hand).

I thought adding in the first exercise the playing of the entire chord (C-E-G-B, D-F-A-C, etc. in the key of C for example) - and maybe their inversions 1, 2 and 3 - could not harm...

Eagerly waiting for your comments !

Have a very good one !
Drooxy

[bernhard]

Ok, Drooxy.

Your approach has some merit. However it is the equivalent of trying to learn a foreign language by memorising the dictionary. Will it work? Probably not for the following reasons:

1.      Meaning cannot be figured out by words alone (many words like prepositions have no meaning, they establish relationships).

2.      Words out of context are almost impossible to memorise, since you cannot make associations.

3.      It will take a very long time.

4.      You will probably give up midway.

5.      If you are guided by dictionary logic, you will have to start at A and proceed through the alphabet. However this organisation serves the purpose of quick reference, not a language learning purpose.

How does this relate to music and chord progressions?

1.      Chord progressions are like words (notes are like the letters of the alphabet). If your purpose is to learn music (the language), chords or chord progressions by themselves will not get you there, since they are out of context (like the words in a dictionary). In order to understand chord progressions you must get the “meaning” of music (more about that in a moment). Given that context chord progressions follow an irresistible logic.

2.      It will take a long time to memorise all chords/progressions in all keys as you are trying to do (I am not saying that you shouldn’t know all chords in all keys. I am saying is that trying to learn it through a dictionary approach will be hard).

3.      You will probably give up midway.

4.      Guided by this logic you will probably learn the progression chromatically, that is, you will start on C, then Db, then D, then Eb and so on. This organisation is fine on a reference book of chords, but it does not serve the purpose of learning about music. For that you must follow a different organising principle.

So what are you to do?

Consider how you would learn a language.

1.      Native speakers of any language do 95% of their communication using about 2000 words. This is a surprisingly small number (The Oxford Dictionary lists about 50 000 words in English). So it would abbreviate learning time tremendously if you would start by working on these 2000 words. And once you were fluent in these 2000 words, expanding your vocabulary would be easy and natural.

2.      Language follows a rigid structure (called grammar). The rules of grammar are so few that any grammar of any language rarely encompasses more than two hundred pages. So understanding the structural principles of a language can also cut a lot of work.

3.      Children up to age 5 are the most successful learners of language compared to any other group. I am not saying that if are over 5 your hopes of learning a language are diminished. What I am saying is that we should observe very carefully the way children learn language to see if we can find some useful patterns. Here are some:
a) Children are application oriented. They only learn what interests them, or what they need. They will not bother with any other stuff. So they will quickly develop a vocabulary to get what they want (food, affection, toys). They will not bother with acquiring a vocabulary to discuss religion.
b) Children will repeat endlessly a newly acquired vocabulary.
c) Children will learn by imitation and immersion.

So how can you apply these insights to your problem?

1.      Start by working on the most used chord progressions. The ones that cover 95% of harmony in tonal music. (Tonal music is European music of the past 800 years). Here it is: I-IV-V (C – F – G if you are in C major). Learn to recognise these three chords (keep to C major for the moment being) in several contexts: with missing notes, in different inversions; by their sound. Once you are thoroughly familiarise with C-F-G, then and only then you may consider working on a different key.

2.      Learn about the structure of music. This means understanding that the meaning of music is its final note (always the tonic). And that music is a journey that always ends on the tonic. The way you will travel is harmony. Most harmony treatises are like dictionaries. Good for reference useless for anything else. Here are two exceptions:

Harmonic Experience: Tonal Harmony from Its Natural Origins to Its Modern Expression - by  W. A. Mathieu

and

Understanding Harmony - by R. L. Jacobs

3.      At the same time, do not pay to much attention to theory and harmony (children can speak their languages perfectly without any grammar – however an adult learner can benefit a lot from its study)

4.      Work on chord progressions in context. Get your C-F-G progression and use it to harmonise a tune. I suggest that you start with nursery rhymes. Play twinkle twinkle little star in C (start on C) and see how you can harmonise it using only these three chords. Learn this by ear. Soon you will grow dissatisfied with the simplicity of the chord progression, and the nursery rhymes. At this point you can start exploring other vocabularies.

5.       Get your favourite piece of music in C major and identify all the chords. See which progression they follow. Mozart and Haydn sonatas (especially the easy ones) are excellent for this purpose, since they “follow the rules”. If you find them difficult, use beginner pieces collections with emphasis on the classical period (stay away for the moment from modern, romantic and jazzy pieces, since they break the rules all the time and you will get confused). When you find a particularly appealing progression in a piece of music (remember, you want to have a context) try to use it to harmonise a different tune. A lot of Chopin’s waltzes, for instance accept this treatment. If you just play the left hand, you can come up with your own melody. Notice how most of their harmonization are I-IV-V with slight modifications (e.g. I – II – V).

6.      Choose a piece you want to harmonise and stick to it (just like children will concentrate on a vocabulary that will give them what they want). Then want something else. Go from particulars to generals, rather than the other way around (which is what it seems to me you are doing).

7.      Repeat endlessly and imitate the harmony of your favourite piece/composer.

8.      Concentrate on the major scales to start with. And remember that to learn the chords you do not need to know scales (contrary to popular belief). Learn the chords in this order: major chords (all the others come form the major chords). Then minor chords, then seventh chords, then diminished chords and augmented chords. These are the basic ones and all that you will need for a long time (they are the equivalent of the 2000 words of basic vocabulary in any language).

9.      Finally, when you decide it is time to change key, do not do it chromatically, but follow the cycle of fifths (so after mastering C, master G major and F major; then D major and Bb major, and so on). This will be obvious once you know a bit more about the structure of music.

As you can imagine there is much more that can be said about the subject, but this should get you started.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[drooxy]

Thanks indeed fo the time you spent developping that very interesting answer !

I think your comparison between music learning and language learning really makes sense... I guess there would be a lot to say on that subject indeed !

So, I have amended (simplified ?) a little my exercises to insist on the common  progressions (I-IV-V and II-V-I... enough for now !).

Also, I have decided to focus on LH:1-5 and RH:R-3-5-7 (played as chords, arpeggios, etc.) or RH:R-7. I thought that latter two note chord could help "acquire" the correct hand position...

I will work later the "3/7 axe" as I presume its location on the keyboard can be figured out from the "base chords" while one is familiar with them...

I like also very much the notion of "context"... I will take care of that as well.

May I ask you two more questions then ?

Why do you prefer and recommend these two books ?
 and
What make the circle of fifhts the best way to go through the keys ? (note that the answer to that question is probably in the books you mention !!!  

Again, I want to thank you for your long and enriching answer ! (not sure of "enriching" in english... but I am sure you get the idea !).

Have a good day !
Drooxy

[bernhard]

Why do you prefer and recommend these two books ?

Usually textbooks on Harmony start with a list of intervals followed by a list of chords. You are supposed to know and memorise all of them. This is followed by a huge number of rules that you also must memorise. You are never told in simple terms why you should use this rules, and what happens if you don’t. At the same time as you explore the repertory you seldom see any example of such rules. Quite the opposite you see example after example of composers not using these rules and doing fine.

These two books are completely different in that they don’t require you to memorise anything. In fact they assume you are a beginner. They then proceed to explain why music affects us the way it does. They adopt a historical approach so that you see that there are no rules, it is more a case of “recipes”. They also give you a “logic” that fits most if not all of the repertory, so that as you study your piece all that information is exemplified and is directly relevant. In fact after you read these two books, you will even appreciate why traditional textbooks of harmony are written the way they are and you be able to profit from them. Both books are highly recommended.

What make the circle of fifhts the best way to go through the keys ? (note that the answer to that question is probably in the books you mention !!!

Indeed, the answer will be in the books. I will give you a brief and simplified overview. Think of the C major scale. It has seven different notes. Now, think of the G major scale. It shares with C major 6 out of seven notes. The only difference is the F# (which replaces the F). So you could say that these two scales are closely related. Now consider F major. Like G major, it shares with C major 6 out of 7 notes differing only by the Bb (which replaces the B). So these two scales, G major and F major are very close “relatives” of C major. Like cousins.

Now consider A minor. A minor actually shares all the notes with C major (the G# in harmonic A minor is an accidental – the key signature is the same for C major and A minor). So C major and A minor are even closer “relatives”, say, like brothers.

A piece written in C major will soon be very boring if it stays only within the notes of C major. Typically it will wander into other keys, and these keys will be the closest relatives: A minor, G major (and its brother E minor) and F major (and its brother D minor).

If you pick any piece of music (Haydn, Mozart are both very good for that since they follow the rules closely) in C, you will see that they follow just such an scheme.

As it happens, F and G are a fifth apart from C on each direction. So, if you get used to follow the cycle of fifths you also get used to the movement between keys that is the most used in Western music. You will not (very often at least) see chord progressions that go C to C# to D to D# etc., but you will see a lot of F to C to G. In fact, if you follow the cycle of fifths:

Gb – Db – Ab – Eb – Bb – F – C – G – D – A – E – B – F#

All you have to do to get the most usual chord progression in Western music (I – IV- V) is to chose a key and pick the key to the right and the key to the left. For instance Bb will be Eb (to the left) and F (to the right).

If you are trying to play an accompaniment to a tune, and you know the key of that tune (say it is D major), then most likely the only chords you will need are G (to the left) and A (to the right) plus the three relative minors: E minor, C# minor and B minor.

Does this make sense? If it doesn’t don’t worry. Follow the cycle of fifths anyway and you will be very happy you did later on when you understand all this.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[drooxy]

Bernhard,

Yes ! Your explanation about the circle of fifth is absolutely clear, valuable and usefull ! Many Thanks.

I have seen some excerpt of the two books you mention and they do seem interesting. I am going to try and find them.

Talking about musical litterature, I can see lots of non translated "US books" in our musical stores here in France. In general I like the way they are conceived: they generally present things in a very pragmatic and progressive manner (it is not only the case with music; it is applicable in lots of other domains... a matter of culture/teaching methods/... - call it as you want !)

Here in France, music is still often presented as a "rocket science" - I think that is the way you would say ! - and it is often like if everything was done to discourage beginners... (probably a left of frustration coming from my old classical piano lessons   )

Do you think there would be some interest (in terms of "pedagogy" - not sure of that one ! -  and in terms of business) to translate these books so that they can be more widely sold on the french market ? I do not know how all that work and you might not be the good person to ask to but, as your input has always been very relevant, I try !

Anyway, I thank you very sincerely again for spending so much time sharing your knowledge !  Have a wonderful musical day !

Cordially,
Drooxy

[bernhard]

Do you think there would be some interest (in terms of "pedagogy" - not sure of that one ! -  and in terms of business) to translate these books so that they can be more widely sold on the french market ? I do not know how all that work and you might not be the good person to ask to but, as your input has always been very relevant, I try !

I cannot answer the question of interest for you. Who knows if there is a market for this sort of book in France!

However, this is how the translation business works. (I don't know if it's the same in France, but it probably is].

1.      A publishing house buys the translation rights for a book they think it is worth translated (worth here has nothing to do with the merits of the book. The decision is purely economic).

2.      The publishing house either hires a translator to do the job (through an agency), or they will already have an “in-house” team of translators.

What if you want to translate a book? The problem here is that if you bring the book to the attention of a Publishing house there is no assurance that they will be interested, and if they are, that they will hire you as the translator. If you are not a professional (even free lancer) translator, it is doubtful they will hire you.

One possibility would be for you to contact the author, or original publisher of the book and buy the translation rights yourself. This way, no one could translate the book without your permission, and you could then demand to be the translator. This looks as a far-fetched idea, but as long as the book is not a huge bestseller (Shirley Conran, for instance), which is rarely the case with music books, the price for the translation rights maybe only nominal. You would have to investigate this.

In any case, you should first find out if someone already has the translation rights for the French, if so, you might want to contact the publishing house which has the rights and see if they would be interested in hiring you. Otherwise you could buy the translation rights (if affordable), translate it, and then try to get a publishing house interested in buying it from you.

That’s all I can think for the moment.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[drooxy]

Bernhard,

Once again, thank you for your input.

Coming back to Harmony, I just found a web site that seems interesting but as I might be fooled - just as an ignorant can be - I would greatly appreciate to know what your opinion is !

If you have a chance to go visit it, the URL is: www.harmony.org.uk...

Let me know what you think !

Cordially,
Drooxy

PS: by the way, I keep on working on chords progressions in keys C / G / D (and also C# as that one was already "in my fingers" before you cleverly suggested to follow the circle of fifth...). In each key I work on the basic "scale progression" (I-II-III-IV-V-VI-VII)  and I insist on the following progression:
(I-II-I-IV-I-V)-(II-I-II-IV-II-V)-(IV-I-IV-II-IV-V)-(V-I-V-II-V-IV)... hoping that makes sense !

[drooxy]

Bernhard,

I am looking for a web site selling the two books you suggest... without sucess !

Do you know where I can buy them (I do not find them on the french on-line sell sites).

Thanks again !
Drooxy

[bernhard]

Bernhard,

I am looking for a web site selling the two books you suggest... without sucess !

Do you know where I can buy them (I do not find them on the french on-line sell sites).

Thanks again !
Drooxy

Try these sites (I am sure there are more):

Understanding Harmony. - by Robert Louis Jacobs

https://info.greenwood.com/books/0313250/0313250928.html

Harmonic Experience: Tonal Harmony from Its Natural Origins to Its Modern Expression - by  W. A. Mathieu

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0892815604/002-5641049-9922439?v=glance&vi=reviews

Best wishes,
Bernhard.