Pianists and Pianophiles – scum of the earth?

[brewtality]

Are pianophiles the most intolerable group of pedants one is every likely to encounter? Perhaps as a bitter legacy of their own failed pianistic careers.

 Or is it just a small minority which broadcasts its crass ignorance the loudest?

I’d be inclined to agree with the latter, having encountered many generous, knowledgable and helpful people, who only care about the music, and pianism. But still the minority is raucous and their attitudes grating.

Maybe it is just a result of internet anonymity. One only has to go so far as YouTube to see arrogant fools flinging mud towards revered artists. Like this clueless hack attacking Rubinstein:

. Or step on over to RMCR and read the posts of Messrs Koren, Deacon, etc. I’m not guilt free myself btw.

Do you guys also find that piano (or classical music) lovers are often incredibly condescending? looking down on those who listen to popular music, from their exalted positions of musical enlightenment.

Often I think they are some of the most close minded people ever. It even occurs within pianophiles as a group, like those who look down on romantic music, 20th Century, da sdc etc. The culture of snobbery is something that I’ve never been able to understand; having found my way back to the piano later in life, after listening to all sorts of music previously. Like many here I’d imagine.

I guess my question is, why do people act like this? is it because they were picked on by “cool” kids in school? Social outcast needing to feel a sense of superiority over these people?

Ok enough random musing from me.

[tds]

Are pianophiles the most intolerable group of pedants one is every likely to encounter? Perhaps as a bitter legacy of their own failed pianistic careers.

 Or is it just a small minority which broadcasts its crass ignorance the loudest?

I’d be inclined to agree with the latter, having encountered many generous, knowledgable and helpful people, who only care about the music, and pianism. But still the minority is raucous and their attitudes grating.

Maybe it is just a result of internet anonymity. One only has to go so far as YouTube to see arrogant fools flinging mud towards revered artists. Like this clueless hack attacking Rubinstein:

. Or step on over to RMCR and read the posts of Messrs Koren, Deacon, etc. I’m not guilt free myself btw.

Do you guys also find that piano (or classical music) lovers are often incredibly condescending? looking down on those who listen to popular music, from their exalted positions of musical enlightenment.

Often I think they are some of the most close minded people ever. It even occurs within pianophiles as a group, like those who look down on romantic music, 20th Century, da sdc etc. The culture of snobbery is something that I’ve never been able to understand; having found my way back to the piano later in life, after listening to all sorts of music previously. Like many here I’d imagine.

I guess my question is, why do people act like this? is it because they were picked on by “cool” kids in school? Social outcast needing to feel a sense of superiority over these people?

Ok enough random musing from me.

i love randomness. i'll shout u a beer or two if your are in the vicinity.

[counterpoint]

...arrogant fools flinging mud towards revered artists.

Yeah, instead of saying "I don't like this sort of music" or "I don't like how he is playing the piece", they make comments like "there is no bar without a mistake".

Really weird guys. If they want to impress others with such comments, they are completely on the wrong ship 

Since we now have YouTube, everyone can upload his own playing and show, how the right notes sound 

[pianistimo]

BUT, if you have no opinion then you may as well not declare yourself a musician.  i don't think it's a matter of declaring all other music dead.  it's just dead to us.  i mean, if my daughter's pop music comes on - i'll put up with it - but as soon as she leaves the car - it's back to classical.

i heard the most beautiful chopin yesterday on xm113 at about 5:11 pm.  i'm going to try to get the schedule to look up who's playing.  just as knowing what you don't like - you should definately know what you like - so you can prove to someone that your thoughts are valid opinions.  what made me like this performer was the masculinity they put to chopin's polonaise in A.  dum da dum - da da da da da dum da dum  (doodily doot doot doot doot) dum da dum - da da da da da dum da dum.  usually people butcher this piece.

when i listen to classical, i actively critique whether i want to or not.  everything stops around me and i am only concentrating on the music (no matter where i am or what i am doing).  especially piano music.  i start listening first of all to the overall manner in which the person plays.  loud and boisterous, or controlled and perhaps understated or right at the level or slightly over the top but not obnoxious.  i used to think obnoxious was genius. now, i realize it's attention getting alright - but clued in musicians don't go for it.  you don't have to 'make something' of the music - it's already there.  you are just 'opening a present.'  making it seen in the light.  some artists are only playing for notoriety.  not, for the music's sake.  of course, some will never be famous that way -but at least they are honest.  i'm not saying speed and flash don't have a place somewhere - but not in every single piece they play.  there has to be some contemplativeness, some ability to play slowly as well, some dynamic shadings and a multiplicity of technical prowess and not the same thing over and over.   

[rc]

Snobs are everywhere, in every field.  Some sort of need to feel superior, hard to say why...  I've known construction snobs.

I remember I used to be a musical snob as a kid.  Often it was an overreaction to others, they'd see that they could push my buttons regarding music and I'd retaliate.  Related is having too much of my identity tied in music, all the eggs in one basket, so I felt no matter what I had to be better in this area...  Oversensitive ego, or somesuch.

Music snobs don't bother me directly, but I don't like the effect it has on others, who often hold it against the music.

there has to be some contemplativeness, some ability to play slowly as well, some dynamic shadings and a multiplicity of technical prowess and not the same thing over and over.

Agree big time, contrast is needed, the mind gets bored with too much of the same.  That was one complaint I had for a lot of local bands, not enough variety.  If it was a metal band, you heard song after song of the same metal vibe and by the end of the third song it becomes redundant.

[allthumbs]

Are pianophiles the most intolerable group of pedants one is every likely to encounter? Perhaps as a bitter legacy of their own failed pianistic careers.

 Or is it just a small minority which broadcasts its crass ignorance the loudest?

I’d be inclined to agree with the latter, having encountered many generous, knowledgable and helpful people, who only care about the music, and pianism. But still the minority is raucous and their attitudes grating.

I agree with you brewtality. In my own personal experience in having met several people who are at the top of their profession/artistic endeavours etc, I have found that the better they were, or the more accomplished and knowledgeable they were, the more humble, thoughtful and helpful they became.

After all, what did they have to prove or whom did they have to impress?

It's only the insecure who have to ridicule and belittle others for their own feelings of self-doubt.

Remember that it's easier to criticize than to do.


Cheers

allthumbs

[brewtality]

Thanks for replies guys. I was just ticked off by that youtube thing.
Btw, obviously I prefer classical music to popular but it isn't necessarily better. Not all pop is trash (although the current MTV stuff is not good imo) just like not all classical is musically superior (for lack of a better expression).

tds, I'll get the second round! as long as we're not drinking Fosters.

[tds]

tds, I'll get the second round! as long as we're not drinking Fosters.

howbout vb?

[thierry13]

just like not all classical is musically superior (for lack of a better expression).

No, but all the standard repertoire of people who aren't begginers ... is, and by a VERY large margin.

[arensky]

Are pianophiles the most intolerable group of pedants one is every likely to encounter? Perhaps as a bitter legacy of their own failed pianistic careers.

Maybe it is just a result of internet anonymity. One only has to go so far as YouTube to see arrogant fools flinging mud towards revered artists. Like this clueless hack attacking Rubinstein:

. Or step on over to RMCR and read the posts of Messrs Koren, Deacon, etc. I’m not guilt free myself btw.

I presume you mean Mr. Vano. I'll bet he wouldn't speak like that in person and you're right he is a loudmouthed jerk. In his defense ( briefly) that was not the best Rubinstein playing I've seen or heard, but Vano is one of those people who are looking at grains of sand, not the big picture. Also notice how many people came to Ruby's defense. BTW I really loved that vid, it's amazing, wrong notes/banging and all. We should all play that badly...

Here's one that pissed me off, this kid's playing Rachmaninov for his high school, the audience is unruly but they're diggin' it, he probably opened some minds that day, and look at what people say...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQpVGl3kBJw&mode=related&search= 

Do you guys also find that piano (or classical music) lovers are often incredibly condescending? looking down on those who listen to popular music, from their exalted positions of musical enlightenment.

Often I think they are some of the most close minded people ever. It even occurs within pianophiles as a group, like those who look down on romantic music, 20th Century, da sdc etc. The culture of snobbery is something that I’ve never been able to understand; having found my way back to the piano later in life, after listening to all sorts of music previously. Like many here I’d imagine.

Yes classical music lovers are often very condescending but so are "pop" people, particularly as Rock/pop whatever ya wanna call it develops it's own artistic pretentions (replete with critics, labels, stylistic debates and differences) while pretending to be the "music of the people". A jazz/pop musician friend of mine said to me last summer " I don't know why you play all that classical stuff what good is it nowadays" or something to that effect and my jaw dropped, and this is someone who purports to be culturally open-minded and "diverse" and all that. Seems his diversity stops at what he has been brainwashed  to like and dislike, just the way many classical musicians are taught to dismiss "pop" as irrelevant. So close-mindedness goes around everywhere, not just in classical music. OTOH I've had classical musician friends introduce me to other classical musicians as " a jazz pianist"  .  The important thing is to look beyond this and keep one's eye on the goal, which should be to play and appreciate good music, regradless of it's origin or complexity or "brand", if you will. I'm not saying we all have to like everything, but having an open mind is a  wise thing to do because our tastes and opinions can and do change.

I guess my question is, why do people act like this? is it because they were picked on by “cool” kids in school? Social outcast needing to feel a sense of superiority over these people?

Mostly the need to feel superior imo. 

[zheer]

Here's one that pissed me off, this kid's playing Rachmaninov for his high school, the audience is unruly but they're diggin' it, he probably opened some minds that day, and look at what people say...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQpVGl3kBJw&mode=related&search= 

  Well he had a lot of guts to play for so many people at his school, anyway thats obviously a very good school, possibly private, i mean you dont often see a grand piano like that in secondary school.

[prongated]

what made me like this performer was the masculinity they put to chopin's polonaise in A. dum da dum - da da da da da dum da dum (doodily doot doot doot doot) dum da dum - da da da da da dum da dum. usually people butcher this piece.

???I don't get it; are butchers feminists, or do feminists butcher???

In his defense ( briefly) that was not the best Rubinstein playing I've seen or heard, but Vano is one of those people who are looking at grains of sand, not the big picture. Also notice how many people came to Ruby's defense. BTW I really loved that vid, it's amazing, wrong notes/banging and all. We should all play that badly...

You know, I never get nervous whenever I perform in public. Reason is, when I walked onto the platform, I know that I will play at least one wrong note

Rubinstein described himself as one of the last great "wrong players". Sure he didn't play all the right notes, especially in his earlier recordings, but that is part of the reason why he is my hero