Learning a Bach Fugue

[fleah]

Hi,

Any suggestions for learning a Bach Fugue?
 
Would you take each voice separately from begining to end?  Then add one at a time?

Or would anyone have other ideas?

Thanks!

[gonzalo]

Hi,

Any suggestions for learning a Bach Fugue?
 
Would you take each voice separately from begining to end?  Then add one at a time?

Or would anyone have other ideas?

Thanks!

Yes. The idea of learning separate voices is the best way to see what each voice does, and how it develops subjects.
Another idea is:

1) Get a chart where you can see the structure of the fugue
2) Then ,learn first all the subjects, then all the counter subjects. This is really easy since  usually it's the same pattern but in different keys.
3)Then join the subj. and countersubj. together.
4) Now learn the episodes.
5) Join everything together.

You can also learn all the above steps with separate voices.

Take care,
Gonzalo

[jakev2.0]

Do slow, hands seperate practice, paying careful attention to holding notes for their required values. I don't think it's entirely necessary to play the voices seperately as long as you understand which are which when you play them!

I think a good fugue to start on is an easier three-parter like C minor from Book I.

[m1469]

General plan :

• Analyze (locating subjects, countersubjects, links... etc)
• Locate each voice part
• Write out each voice separately in music software program or by hand
• Learn/Memorize each voice separately (find fingering that will fit with everything else going on)
• Learn/Memorize each hand
• Play one voice whilst singing the other; all combos
• Everything together

With this as my basic format and these as my basic aims, I do still experiment with how I go about working the plan.  For example, I had decided at one point to assign as many practice sessions to a fugue as there are voices, giving each voice their own session.  So, if I am working on a 4 voice fugue, I would assign 4 - 20 minute sessions to the one fugue each day while I am in the stage of learning the voices separately.  Then I would learn as much as I can of each voice during their respective session assignments.  I have found this to be somewhat confusing, however.  

I have resorted to trying out different things like only learning one voice part at a time and assigning all of my practice sessions for that fugue to that one voice until it is learned and memorized in full.   This is what I am doing at the moment.  I find that I enjoy the focus this brings -- I feel like I can sink in a little better.  However, if I only have one session for this, I start feeling like I am not making enough progress each day, so I assign more than one session per voice if I am learning it like this.

Because progress is inspiring for me and stagnation is not, I aim to have my practice session plans be as conducive to my feelings of progress as possible.  That is not rocket science by any means, it's just that I have gone through long spurts of doing something that I didn't feel I was making progress with just because I thought I had to.  This has, more than once, brought my entire piano life to a screeching holt (and then it doesn't matter which "way" is best or not because by this point I am not touching the piano anymore and therefore all the theories in the world don't matter a bit).  I am less willing to do this these days and more willing to change my plans around if needed.

Experiment !


m1469



ps-  Which fugue are you learning ?

[jakev2.0]

Well, if you tried doing all that with pieces like A minor Book I, Bb minor book II,  or Contrapunctus IV you'd probably DIE of old age before you finished the first page!

[verywellmister]

You guys are coming up with way too complicated ways to learn fugues.  Just learn it like any other piece (hands separately, etc.), while paying heed to which voice needs to be brought out.

i would recommend Bach WTC I no.2, 6, or 9.(for something wickedly hard, do Shostakovich op.87 no.15.  fun fun...hehe)

[m1469]

I personally would not even *dream* of stepping out on stage and peforming counterpoint, *especially* Bach, without having gone through the steps I have outlined above.  The more complicated the fugue, the more this statement is true for me.

If I did ever dream about it, it would be a nightmare  .


m1469

[gonzalo]

I personally would not even *dream* of stepping out on stage and peforming counterpoint, *especially* Bach, without having gone through the steps I have outlined above.  The more complicated the fugue, the more this statement is true for me.

If I did ever dream about it, it would be a nightmare  .


m1469

Also , pick a notation software and re-write the whole piece one voice at a time. Thus you'll be able to hear one voice and sing the other one before you get near the piano. Separating the voices like this will allow you to listen to all details.
Count this as another practice session.

Take care,
Gonzalo

[m1469]

Also , pick a notation software and re-write the whole piece one voice at a time. Thus you'll be able to hear one voice and sing the other one before you get near the piano. Separating the voices like this will allow you to listen to all details.
Count this as another practice session.

Take care,
Gonzalo

Good advice, this is third on my list up above .


m1469

[gonzalo]

And watch out for fingering. Some fugues are really complicated in those matters. For example, the first one in C major from WTK I.
If necessary , make this a 5-10 min practice session. You shouldn't stay a long time with it,since if you do stay more than 10 min you won't be concentrating on musicality, and then you'll sound like crap.

Take care,
Gonzalo

[fleah]

Hi all,

thanks for your responses!  you know, I meant to post this in the student section, but that's okay.
the fugue is the G# minor one in Book I--my teacher assigned it to me.  I'll ask her to how to practice it, but I would love to get varying opinions.  It's my first fugue.  it is 4 voiced, but slow. 

your tips are very interesting and appreciated!

[m1469]

And then re-write the entire thing from memory as though you were composing the music out of your very own being  .



m1469

[mephisto]

Well, if you tried doing all that with pieces like A MINOR BOOK 1, Bb minor book II,  or Contrapunctus IV you'd probably DIE of old age before you finished the first page!

Please don't remind me of those days

[counterpoint]

I can't say anything about memorizing fugues - because I don't 

At Bach's times, nobody did learn and play Fugues by heart.


In learning fugues, it seems, I have a totally different approach as all those single-voice, single-handed practising people. I learn them as every other piece from beginning both hands together, no theoretical analysing, only play, hear and feel the music. The more musically and shaped the piece is played, the more themes and counterpoint are getting clearer. The main constructional principle of polyphonic music is parallel motion and contrary motion, from view of playing this is very simple. (It's not so simple from view of composing a fugue, but that's another subject.)

[pianistimo]

here's a good site to understanding a bit more about fugues:

www.kunstderfuge.com/theory.htm

to my ears - fugues sound best on the organ.  don't limit yourself to piano sounding fugues.  add some octaves.  use some sostenuto.  get dramatic. 

here's a complete analysis in real time:

www.kunstderfuge.com/theory/bwv861.html

[m1469]

At Bach's times, nobody did learn and play Fugues by heart.

Yeah, they just improvised them on the spot  .