Rachmaninoff Sonata in D minor

[liszmaninopin]

Has anybody on this board played the whole piece?

[thracozaag]

Has anybody on this board played the whole piece?

 Yes, the 2nd movement is probably my favorite piece in all of Rachmaninoff's output.  The finale is the only weak point of this magnificent work (and sadly underplayed), in my opinion.

[liszmaninopin]

Are you referring to the end of the final movement?  I have to agree, I think the second sonata's ending is much stronger.  It is underplayed-I tried to find a cd locally, and couldn't!  I have heard it on the internet; but I'd swear that the area I live in has the worst selection of classical cd's and sheet music of any area I've ever been.  To get a Dover book of Chopin etudes and preludes I had to order it off sheet music plus.

[eddie92099]

To get a Dover book of Chopin etudes and preludes I had to order it off sheet music plus.

First 9/11, then the Bali bombing and now this!
Ed

[liszmaninopin]

I'm not kidding.  In the cowtown where I live, about the only sheet music I can buy at our music dealer is popular music, Moonlight Sonata, Revolutionary Etude, Fantaisie Impromptu, and perhaps a couple of other things.  I have to order all my music-and most of my cds.  How good is the selection in the towns were all of you live?

[schnabels_grandson]

It's a little better in my town.  The local piano store has Schirmer editions of headliner composers like Chopin, Bach, and Mozart.  Then they have Alfred editions of Rachmaninoff and Scriabin and other lesser know composers.  They also have a wide selection of non classical sheet music.  Then there's the guitar store which has one small rack of classical sheet music.  Then theres Barnes and Noble who carry a small selection of dover classical books.  If I want anything more than common pieces I have to go to sheet music plus.

[liszmaninopin]

That would be one of my wishes: if locally we could have a really great sheet music store (better yet several), where one could find almost anything.

[schnabels_grandson]

I was thinking of opening a music store with music from all publishers.  It would be like a warehouse with at least two copies of every printed score known to man.  Maybe a Steinway D for people to try out the music on,  plus other intstruments for the same purpose.    

[liszmaninopin]

To those who have heard cd recordings of this piece, I have a question.  The only version I have heard is by a Mi-Jung Im.  Here is the address:

https://www.webconcerthall.com/archive/artist/mijung/

How does this performance compare to others you have heard of the piece?

[comme_le_vent]

idil biret is good on naxos, on the naxos.com website you can listen to streams of just about all of their cds. so you can hear the whole thing for free(but in lesser quality)

[liszmaninopin]

comme, do you enjoy this sonata?  I'd think that you'd like the first movement alot, as the climax is quite intense.

[comme_le_vent]

yeah, i live for musical climaxes, i havent listened to this piece very much, cos i bought it with about 198576638 other cds at the time, but i remember it stood out. still i dont think ANYTHING could beat the MEGA-COLOSSAL-CLIMAX from the 1st movement of alkan's symphony for solo piano - woo - just thinkin about it gives me chills.

[liszmaninopin]

Perhaps I should get the cd of Alkan's Concerto some time.  I downloaded a pdf file off the internet, but for some reason or another it is password protected that I can't print it.  Are there any sheet music editions of this work?

[eddie92099]

Dover publish a book with the Concerto, Symphony, Le Festin D'Esope and the Barcarolle in,
Ed

[liszmaninopin]

Thank you.  Also, be careful, I suppose that you meant "published."

[eddie92099]

Not at all. They continue to publish it,
Ed

[liszmaninopin]

Oh, I see.  I'm not an English teacher, and am just asking to see; might "Dover publishes..." be better in that case?

[eddie92099]

might "Dover publishes..." be better in that case?

S/he publishes.
They publish.

Ed

[liszmaninopin]

That is true, but you're using Dover as a singular noun (I think), it's not a "they."

Anyway, here's how I would probably write the sentence:

Dover publishes a book that includes the Concerto, the Symphony, Le Festin d'Esope and the Barcarolle.

Notice that I also left out "in" at the end.  It's kind of funny, but you're the only one who I would debate grammar with on an online forum.  Usually forums contain such wretched abominations of the English language that I wouldn't know where to begin.

[eddie92099]

That is true, but you're using Dover as a singular noun (I think), it's not a "they."

Dover can be regarded as singular, but also as plural (which is obviously how I was regarding it - 'the people at Dover').

Anyway, here's how I would probably write the sentence:

Dover publishes a book that includes the Concerto, the Symphony, Le Festin d'Esope and the Barcarolle.

Notice that I also left out "in" at the end.

Yes, I did notice that. Both sentences are correct, are they not?!
Ed

[liszmaninopin]

I suppose that if you got rid of the "in" and added a period, your sentence was okay, but a trifle confusing perhaps.  Let us drop the subject and move on to something more constructive.

Actually, I think that this thread talks as much about grammar as the Sonata.  And to think I started it all, sorry.

[comme_le_vent]

ed, unlike me, gives a rats ass and grammar about spellnig.

Anyway I was the one who informed ed about the dover book, and it also includes the 'mental' toccatina and the whacked out on drugs like a spiff of squiff 'saltarelle' with one of the most wickedly rhythmic endings ive ever heard.

in case your forgot, alkan rules.

[eddie92099]

I suppose that if you got rid of the "in" and added a period, your sentence was okay, but a trifle confusing perhaps.

What are you talking about? The pieces are "in" the book, hence the "in" in my sentence. If anyone is confused by something being in a book then I think they have greater worries than where to find Alkan scores. I resent you saying my sentence is confusing when it clearly isn't,
Ed

[liszmaninopin]

Apparently, then, you don't want to drop it.  Keep in mind that this is all meant good naturedly.  I apologize for causing resentment, as that wasn't my intention.

Perhaps the pieces are "in" the book, but it seems just kind of tacked on there at the end of the sentence.  If you wanted to keep the "in," add an "it" after it.

Okay, I knew what you meant, so in that sense your sentence was fine, but the wording could be worked on.  I really shouldn't have brought it up.

[eddie92099]

Perhaps the pieces are "in" the book, but it seems just kind of tacked on there at the end of the sentence.  If you wanted to keep the "in," add an "it" after it.

Okay, I knew what you meant, so in that sense your sentence was fine, but the wording could be worked on.  I really shouldn't have brought it up.

Seriously, what kind of English do you speak? Here in England the sentence is perfectly fine. I can't stand bloody foreigners telling me how to speak my own language,
Ed

[comme_le_vent]

bloody hell mate, make me some fish and chips with some bangers!

english ppl are so arrogant and inconclusive in their rants, eat a pie and try 3 more!
get fat!
then realise that grammar aint da end of da woyld

thank god for the non-english people out there

[liszmaninopin]

I speak American English.  Apparently the two countries have slightly different ways of saying things.  This will be my last comment about grammar, as this has gone too far.  I am not trying to tell you how to speak your own language.  When I first read your sentence, I thought that there had been a small grammar goof.  Knowing how you said jokingly in the past that you don't make mistakes, I thought I would correct what came across to me as an error, and I meant it jokingly, nothing more.  Somehow I have now become a "bloody foreigner," apparently having insulted you somehow.  (Or, you are playing with me, getting me to apologize for offending you when you're in fact laughing heartily about my gullibility)  If it's the latter, it's been a good joke.  If it's the former, accept my apologies for offending you, and let's drop the subject.

[eddie92099]

If it's the latter, it's been a good joke.

I'm not serious when I call you a bloody foreigner, but I still resent you trying to "correct" my correct English,
Ed

[liszmaninopin]

I remember a while ago you posted somewhere on this forum a link to a piece you composed, Cordoba.  What site is that on?

[comme_le_vent]

yeah, thats on the sibelius user-compositions thing site.
can you believe he didnt get an A?
I really liked it, reminded me of Albeniz - a good thing

[eddie92099]

Thanks guys. I had been listening to a lot of Iberia at the time! It's on www.sibeliusmusic.com,
Ed

[liszmaninopin]

I just listened to it.  That's really an interesting piece, Ed.  I hardly know anything about composition, but I can't really suggest anything that I'd change.  How does one create ideas for a composition?  I can't tell you how many times one of the following has happened:

1.  I hear piano music in my head, but it is too complex for me to notate or just sit down at the keyboard and play.

2.  I just sit down with a pencil and hand and start notating, but the result is either childlishly simple or doesn't make sense.

3.  I improvise on the piano, come up with something good, and then promptly forget it.

I'd say alot of this has to do with the fact that I have a poor aural (sp.?) memory.  The music I hear in my head is also very thick, with slight dissonance-if you've ever heard some Sorabji, that's kind of how thick the music is that I conceive, but my ideas are considerably less dissonant and have more clearly defined themes.

[thracozaag]

To those who have heard cd recordings of this piece, I have a question.  The only version I have heard is by a Mi-Jung Im.  Here is the address:

https://www.webconcerthall.com/archive/artist/mijung/

How does this performance compare to others you have heard of the piece?

 To get back to the original thread, and away from yet another ridiculous grammatical pissing match, I would HIGHLY recommend you get the Ogden recording, just be careful that it's the one that he made for RCA in the 60's, not the more recent one he did for EMI.  It's a magnificent recording.  I would also highly recommend the Kazmin recording as well.  

[liszmaninopin]

Thanks for the suggestions, Thracozaag! (interesting name)

I was just searching on amazon.com for recordings-and I happened across something I was very suprised to.  There was a cd where it claimed that the performer was S. Rachmaninoff, and the cd had both Sonatas recorded on it.  I had read somewhere that Rachmaninoff never made a recording of either of his sonatas, but that source could be mistaken.  Would you happen to know anything about this?  To find it, go to amazon.com in the classical music section.  If you type in "Rachmaninoff sonata," it should be #33 on the list of products, called Rachmaninoff Sonata 1/2.

[schnabels_grandson]

I listened to a sample of the Bb sonata and in the windows media player window it says "Kun Woo Paik: Rachmaninoff"

I think that this Kun Woo is the one playing.

[liszmaninopin]

You're probably right.  It is too static-free to be Rachmaninoff.  I suppose my high-hopes kind of covered that up.

[eddie92099]

I listened to a sample of the Bb sonata and in the windows media player window it says "Kun Woo Paik: Rachmaninoff"

I think that this Kun Woo is the one playing.

Most probably. He is a Naxos artist (and has incidentally recorded the complete Prokofiev Piano Concertos),
Ed

[liszmaninopin]

Some of those Naxos artists have amazing repertoires:  can you imagine all the stuff that Jando and Biret play?  It seems like alot to me, anyway.

[r.schaefer]

YES!!!!!!!!!
https://rachmaninoff.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=235

Does anybody know exactly when the first version of the sonata op.28 will be released and where to get it?


Ps:  I will play the third movement of the sonata next tuesday on a music concert of my school!!!

[superstition2]

Mi Jung Im's performance is outstanding (first two movements). She should be better-known.

Her third movement is definitely different than Biret's, which I prefer.

[rob47]

I agree with Thracozzaag that the 3rd mvt. of this sonata is unfortunately weak, relative to the rest of this epic piece.  However I find Mi Jung Im's cuts in the third mvt. a big help to getting the piece over with and maintaining some level of "fluidity"?  The section she cuts out just kind of detracts from the story in most of the other recordings I've heard, and  I would probably make the same cuts myself.  And the second mvt is on par with his 3rd concerto second movement, in fact I like it better.  Great piece.

[superstition2]

I agree with Thracozzaag that the 3rd mvt. of this sonata is unfortunately weak, relative to the rest of this epic piece.  However I find Mi Jung Im's cuts in the third mvt. a big help to getting the piece over with and maintaining some level of "fluidity"?  The section she cuts out just kind of detracts from the story in most of the other recordings I've heard, and  I would probably make the same cuts myself.  And the second mvt is on par with his 3rd concerto second movement, in fact I like it better.  Great piece.

I have to disagree. Cuts rarely work with Rachmaninov, even when he made them. I found her performance of the 3rd movement a bit disconcerting. Biret has better flow.

[fergal]

Well what a thoroughly pleasuarble read this thread has been to read.  I feel like i've been through thicj and thin just to reach the bottom. 
anywayz, yeah I played the whole sonata in my final recital at college about 6 months ago.  Wicked piece and grossly underated in my opinion.  Have a recording of me doing first mvt which I'll try to put on audition room if I can ever figure out how!
Best recording I've heard  has to be Boris Berezovsky. Genius! IWeisennberg has also recorded but the CD's out of production so I've never heard it, although I'd be very interedted to.