Sell Petrof Model V to buy Yamaha Silent GC1, C1 or C2

[aribe]

Hello everybody,

I am new to the forum. I am a non-professional piano player who had serious professional training for 5 years (I used to play 4-6 hours per day then). Now I play in and conduct an octet and practice 1-2 hours per day. We rehearse every week and give concerts. My level would be deemed by some, I suppose, "semi-professional".

My piano is an old Petrof Model V  (156 cm) bought in 1988 (has still ivory keys). I was never that happy with it, but it was a present and grand and a grand is a grand.

I just bought a small flat in a VERY noisy (anything but soundproof, that is) old building in Amsterdam. My problem is that I hate practicing in a flat with neighbours and I do not play as much as I would like or could because of this: I do not feel free and I really need to practice most of the time I play, it is 80% metronome repetitions of the same passage, in general contemporary chamber pieces in which the piano is anything but Chopin piano stuff. Thinking at the neighbours makes me very anxious. Buying an houseboat or a detached house or turning my flat into a soundproof studio is no option.

Now, here's the thing: I was just about to move and worrying about my neighbours complaining, when I saw in a shop some Yamaha Silent Grands. I was very impressed and I am seriously considering selling my Petrof to the shop and buying a Silent Yamaha from them (and they arrange the piano move).

If I really wanted I could afford a Silent C2, perhaps, but in fact I think it is too big for my flat. Also, I am sure I will play most of the time with the Silent system, and every now and then, say once a week, acoustically - to rehearse with my singer, for example, moving the piano to another place in the room. So isn't it better to have a smaller, cheaper and less well resounding instrument if it has to be a Silent played like this all the time?
 
If I do not go  for C2, then I should go either for  C1 or GC1 (slightly bigger than my Petrof, 161 cm). I was told that there is not a big difference between  C1 and GC1 in quality, but the GC1 costs considerably less, so go for GC1.  What do you people think?

My take is this: my dream piano I will never be able to afford (Fazioli 308) and anything really great for the moment I would be content to play every now and then in concerts.

I need a not too big soundproof tool that has the touch of a grand and sounds beautifully if played acoustically.

Any advice is appreciated!

aribe




 

[Axtremus]

I suspect the "difference in quality" between a C1 and a GC1 would show up more prominently only many years after much heavier use than your expected "1-2 hours per day," and I doubt you play lots of heavy pounding pieces given what you've written.  So in your case, I think a GC1 would work just fine.

[aribe]

I doubt you play lots of heavy pounding pieces given what you've written.  So in your case, I think a GC1 would work just fine.

Thanks Axtremus, this is helpful. The kind of pieces I play are things like Erwin Schulhoff's Hot-Sonate for Alto Sax and Piano, Eisler's liederen - stuff like that. For the kind of pounding you should think at something like Kurt Weill's The Song of Mandelay (from Happy End) in the original orchestral version.

aribe

[nsvppp]

Why are you only thinking of exchanging your Petrof for a silent. You can have a silent additionally to your grand. Especially because you're semi-professional player I can not imagine you could live with such an "amputation".

I own a p120 and an old steinway piano. It's impossible for me to play the piano early/late but even if I have only time to check the pieces I've studied, the "real" piano remains invaluable to me.

[aribe]

Why are you only thinking of exchanging your Petrof for a silent. You can have a silent additionally to your grand. Especially because you're semi-professional player I can not imagine you could live with such an "amputation".

I own a p120 and an old steinway piano. It's impossible for me to play the piano early/late but even if I have only time to check the pieces I've studied, the "real" piano remains invaluable to me.

Well, it is not the case that I would live with an amputation: the Yamaha Silent Grands are real acoustic pianos that are turned into Silent ones by pulling a handle, your p180 is an electronic piano - that's different.

I am posting again also because I got some more information, ideas and inputs.

My Petrof Model V is from 1928-9 and it is, according to the shop I am in touch with, worth 2100 EUR. They say it needs new hammerheads (1500 EUR) and they cannot exclude cracks in the soundboard (they say they could not see it now but only in the spring or so when the heating has been on). I am disappointed about this because it was 3500 EUR in 1988, and money devaluation now should compensate the 20 years, I think. Now, be as it may, that instrument could have been played by Schulhoff and I realized that I am emotionally attached to it and to its ivory&ebony keys. Also, I am all in favour of getting old things back in shape and not throw away if it is not absolutely necessary.

Then I went twice to the shop to try the grands. They locked me in alone with my singer for 3 hours. They have Yamaha GC1 and a Yamaha C2S, that is, a normal GC1  and a silent C2. The first time I was happy to see that they are much better than the just maintained C3 from 1973 we have at rehearsals. I was very impressed by the GC1 in particular, because to my surprise it has a incredibly big sound, big bass, and a quite yummy heavy action. I love heavy action, it is quite physical and tells you that you need to work to get something done. I used to play the clarinet and when I passed to the piano I always missed the physical contact you have with a wind instrument. Heavy action makes up a little for it. The sound of the GC1 is quite typical brilliant Yamaha, and the trebles are on the shrill side, this I do not like at all, although I have heard uglier trebles. It is difficult at first to get expressive on the GC1, pianissimos are almost impossible. Now, I cannot buy this particular GC1 because it is not silent, so I would have to order another and then hope that it is like this. The vendor says I am not obliged to buy it if I do not like it - which means, contrary to what he says, that another GC1 *can* differ quite a lot.

The C2 is far mellower and feebler in sound, also in the bass, has a lighter action and the touch feels easier, but also less deep: what I mean is the the up-and-down-key movement seems to be shorter (how do you say this?) although the vendor says that the two are the same in this. Also, the C2 has far more beautiful trebles. The control of the keys is far better. Now I am not sure how these three elements are related, controle, action key-depth, and sound-depth, I suppose some are a function of the action? (Any expert answer?) 

The C2 sounds more natural and in some registers more pleasant than the GC1, but it has also a kind of old ring to the sound that I am not sure how to place. I tried a rebuilt (or restored? or is it the same?) Boesendorfer from 1912 in the room and it sounded more similar to the C2.  It is possible that by far I am more accustomed to brilliant Yamaha sounds and experience pianos with mellower sound as "old", although a marvellous Fazioli I played once was rather melllow and did not sound "old" at all to me. The GC1 sometimes sounds to me as if it was screaming. The vendor says that they tamper with the small grands to get a bigger sound, that is why it sounds less natural. The vendor says that they also tamper with the action following Yamaha's own guidelines (!) to make the action lighter (gasp). He was very surprised I liked it heavy.  If I buy the C2 he orders another one and I can choose the one I like the best.

I am curious to know whether this match also your opinions on the two models. It is as if the GC1 is a young Chianti and the C2 a Pinot Noir (but certainly not a Barolo, and I like Barolo). The stuff I play usually would not mind the GC1 at all, but the more pianistic pieces are done much more justice on the C2. The vendor says they can make the GC1 lighter and the C2 heavier in 30 minutes, which I believe because I saw how they do it. But I am not very much in favour of starting messing around with a new instrument.

OK, now money. With a discount and giving the  Petrof back, GC1S is around 13.500 EUR and the C2 17.500 EUR. This is a lot of money I did not plan to spend now until I realized that a silent system would change my life. But well, this would mean investing really almost all my money.

At the moment this thing is giving me the shivers, and I came out of the shop completely confused. I am a totally undecisive person that wants to make the perfect choice. Since I did not fall in love with any of the two, I started thinking that perhaps I should not buy after all.  And the options grew.

Option 1: Buying a new Yamaha Silent Grand and give the Petrof away. I like this shop because they are technicians, just not sellers and they do very good service, but in the case I go for this option think I should, I think, first look around the city and compare more C2s and GC1s if I can.

Option 2: Restore the Petrof (could it be 4000 EUR if there are cracks?) and mounting a silent system inside (2000 EUR?) asking first those who had it made.

Option 3: Restore the Petrof, and renting an upright Silent Yamaha then decide after a while whether I want to buy it (around 9300 EUR in the Netherlands) or sell both.

Option 1 giving me the shivers, Option 2 being perhaps the more risky though the cheapest, I am now inclined towards Option 3. It could cost me like buying a new GC1 silent. But suppose I find a good used U1S, and find no cracks in the Petrof, then it could be quite interesting. And suppose I do not like this setup I can still not buy the silent upright and sell the restored Petrof and buying the Yamaha silent grand, or if I already bought the upright sell both and buy a silent grand. I should have more money in the future that I have now, and trying first the smoothest solution seems the most reasonable choice, especially since I am attached to the Petrof. And perhaps the neighbours would turn out no to be that bad after all.

Sorry for the long post!

aribe