Method to Learn Lengthy Pieces

[qoppa]

Hello all
I'm wondering how one goes about learning pieces that are 10 pages or more.  Currently, the longest piece I'm tackling is the second movement to the pathetique sonata, which is only 6 pages.  I can understand how to tackle pieces that are a few pages longer, but I can't see how one would go about learning a piece that's 20 pages long like some of Chopin's Scherzos.

My current method involves sectioning a piece off into chunks.  I start at the beginning and learn the first section, and as soon as I can play the first section (even if it has mistakes occasionaly, or I fumble over some bars), I add the next section.  Then I work on perfecting the first and learning the second.  Once the second is up to the standard I add the next, while keeping the previous sections playable, and so on.  Is it better to use a different method when working on really long pieces, or can my method be extended to a twenty page piece?

Thanks

[henrah]

I think you should just extend your method. It will just take longer that's all.

[nortti]

Combine small chunks into bigger ones. And the bigger ones into still bigger ones and so on..

[hyrst]

Most very long pieces have repeated themes.  So, if you extend your method from shorter pieces by selecting similar sections at the same time, then you discover that you don't have quite as much to learn.  The Scherzos are a good exmple of this - Chopin uses a set of smaller ideas returning to them several times.  You work out what the section is and where each one fits together.  You discover you only have 6 pages to learn instead of 15, that sort of thing.

The hardest part is endurance - maintainig consistency from beginning to end when you are playing 15 minutes straight.

[leucippus]

I haven't done any big pieces just yet, but I'm about to start on some.

The method I plan on using is to break them up into many smaller "pieces" and learn these individually.  But unlike the method you are using I don't do them in tandem, but rather in parallel.  In other words, I learn all of the little pieces simultaneously.

But I may work differently than you.  I don't sight-read a piece clear through and then brush up on that.  Instead I learn just a few measures at a time and clean those up.  So I can work on a few measure of each "section" until I've completely all the sections.

I think it's better like that.  If you work on it in tandem (or series) then by the time you get to the of the piece you have the first part almost over-practiced, and the latter part is still pretty raw.  With the parallel approach the whole piece comes out to have about the same level of practice time more homogeneously.

Just the thoughts of a newbie who hasn't actually implimented the idea yet.

[hyrst]

I whole-heartedly agree, Leucippus, on both points - the sight reading and the parallel learning.  I have pieces that I learnt by sight-reading them to get familiar, rather than studying them and then learning them.  When I am not concentrating, I still make mistakes in these pieces that are what I learnt incorrectly the first few times I played them. It's very frustrating.   

[pianowelsh]

I do it by identifying the hardest pages. then I do a page from the front, a page from the back and often a tricky page fromt the development. I do line by line until each is in control. Next session I do those pages plus 3 new ones next door to the ones already learnt  that way we already have 6 pages. must be said that this must all be in same moderate tempo until whole piece or movement is conquered. Some pages may take a couple of sessions to yield. Dont move on until its playable through 100% accurately.

[lostinidlewonder]

I might add that it is also very helpful to colour in your music. Mark bars that sound the same as other bars with the same colour, this will highlight the pattern of the music more readily. Also, have all the sheets facing you simultaneously, do not flip pages. This observation of the entire sheet music with colour is very helpful to our memorisation, also looks nice .