Invitation: let's learn some Thalberg

[iumonito]

Hi all,

I am fantasizing about going to Naples in 2008 to play in the Thalberg competition/festival.  It would be fun to have fellow pianists workign on this.  Perhaps one or more of us can actually go.

Thalbergmad, do you play any of these Thalberg transcriptions or studies?  I don't know any, so my first step is to get my hands on the one on La Traviata.

Here is the program:

a)      Chopin: a study

b)      Rachmaninoff, Liapunov, Scriabin, Debussy, Prokofieff, Bartòk, Strawinsky, Ligeti: a study;

c)      one piece by Thalberg chosen by the candidate among the followings:

              Op 3   Improvviso su Le Siège de Corinthe by Rossini (12' 55")

               Op.9   Fantasia e variazioni su La Straniera by  Bellini (12' 41")

               Op.28 Notturno (7' 18")

               Op.44 Andante e Finale della Lucia de Lammermoor by Donizetti ( 7' 35")

               Op.68 Fantasia su La Fille du Règiment by Donizetti ( 8' 53")

               Op.77 Grande Fantasia su Il Trovatore by Verdi  ( 9' 31")

               Op.78 Grande Fantasia su La Traviata by Verdi ( 9' 45")

               Op.81 Souvenir di Un Ballo in Maschera by Verdi (9' 06")   

               Op.82 Souvenir di Rigoletto by Verdi (11' 26")

(the score can be demand, contextually to the registration, to the reception office of the Study Centre )

.Audition time must not exceed 20 minutes 

Semi-final audition

a)      Liszt or Thalberg study (the 6 from Paganini also comprises);

b)      one or more significant compositions of the Romantic period;

c)      one or more significant compositions from Debussy onward; 

Audition time must not exceed 40 minutes 

Final audition

A recital program lasting from 50/60 minutes, including obligatory a classical sonata.

You can get more info here:  https://www.centrothalberg.it/premiothalberginglese.htm

[thalbergmad]

It is a shame, but they appear not to have included the best Thalberg pieces in that list.

From that list, I have only played Op9 & Op28, but have heard the rest. I think they have all been recorded by Mr Nicolosi, who is President of the Thalberg Study Centre.

Op77 or Op78 would be my choice in competition i feel.

To assist you in making up your mind, i attach the scores.

Good Luck

[thalbergmad]

 

[thalbergmad]

HAHA, I thought i was missing a score but the study centre appear to have made an error in their list.

The Donizetti is indeed Op43.

I will write to them.

Thal

[pianolist]

Thal, I downloaded just the Rigoletto as a trial, so I shall have messed up your statistics.

You may have explained this elsewhere, in which case all you need do is to point me in the right direction. How do you convert scanned images easily into pdf files? I have a Professional version of Acrobat, and I have done it once, by making sure that every picture was the same pixel dimensions as every other. Maybe that's the only way, but it sure takes time with long books and brochures.

Cheers,

Rex

PS: I do have some Thalberg on roll - I'll have to look and see what. It's probably filed under Verdi et al.

[thalbergmad]

Me az not got Adobe Pro.

I use a free programme called pdf995, that i downloaded at www.download.com.

I just highlight all of my scanned sheets and press print and choose pdf995 as my printer.

The programme turns it into a nice pdf.

Thats how i do it.

I do ensure i use the same scanner settings for each sheet.

Thal

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Personally I would pick the La Traviata (I've always thought the effect at the Maestoso on page 11 of my pdf was especially impressive).

Francesco Nicolosi has recorded all of the pieces listed. In fact, you will find that the timings quoted are the lengths of the tracks on his CDs

[dnephi]

Is it just me or is Traviata frighteningly bristling with difficulty?

[thalbergmad]

Is it just me or is Traviata frighteningly bristling with difficulty?

Not just you old chap. Me as well.

Thal

[ramseytheii]

I'm reminded of the Glenn Gould essay, "Should we dig up the rare Romantics? No, they're just a fad!"

Apologies in advance,
Walter Ramsey

[thalbergmad]

Should we dig up Glenn Gould?

Thal

[iumonito]

I'm reminded of the Glenn Gould essay, "Should we dig up the rare Romantics? No, they're just a fad!"

Apologies in advance,
Walter Ramsey

Glenn Gould also thought Mozart was awfull.

And without Mendelsohnn digging up a rare Baroque and Kirkpatrick digging up another, we would have no J.S. Bach and D. Scarlatti.

[dnephi]

When it comes to overall music, Bach Beethoven and Brahms.  When it comes to pianoforte, it's Bach, Beethoven, and Liszt, with some other important ones somewhere near there. 

(that was prompted by Bach)

Really, it's incredible what Bach wrote.  His organ works and his choral works, I believe, are his greatest. 

And one more thing: why don't we all listen to Palestrina if his gorgeous counterpoint neared that of Bach's?

[mephisto]

I'm reminded of the Glenn Gould essay, "Should we dig up the rare Romantics? No, they're just a fad!"

Apologies in advance,
Walter Ramsey

Did he say anything about Alkan in that essay?

[ramseytheii]

Did he say anything about Alkan in that essay?

No, but he has a humorous comment about rare romantic concerti:

"The recent Schwann notes a release of Scharwenka's B-flat-minor horror of 1877 from RCA; CBS has retaliated with a production of von Henselt's F-minor exercise in narcissism; and it's only a matter of time until someone looks into Moszowski's E major."

Walter Ramsey

[mephisto]

Altough I dissagree with Gould, his comments are always interesting and funny.

[moi_not_toi]

Does anyone have a recording of the La Traviata by Thal?

[pianolist]

By the way, o.c., thanks for the info about pdfs. So far they've been taking me about six days - now they can just bang their way into existence.

[ksnmohan]

Hallo iuomonito,

This mail comes from a far off land - India.

As Musicologist and Composer, I can specially compose for the Festival, a cross-over piece for Piano and Orchestra (which will be on CD as -1 track for you to play over)during the actual performance) based on a work of Thalberg.

Will this be accepted by the festival authorities? Perhaps as an Encore in your appearance in the finals?


Prof K S (Mohan) Narayanan
Musicologist, Composer, Teacher
 

[dnephi]

Does anyone have a recording of the La Traviata by Thal?

The SDC has all the secret recordings.  Why not try there?

[jakev2.0]

Personally, I do not think Thalberg's music is worth digging up. It has some interesting technical stuff, but unfortunately, not much interesting in the way of musical stuff. All his transcriptions are typical mid-19th century fare.

The two romantic piano composers actually worthy of revival are le Monsieur Charles-Valentin Alkan and our friend from the Russian school, Mily Balakirev. They each wrote a couple masterpieces worthy of a place in the permanent repertoire.

And yeah, though I love Gould, he is certainly not to be trusted as an authority on the music of  Schubert, and Chopin (especially).

[dnephi]

Godowsky deserves a revamp, although he seems to be getting one, and Liszt deserves more serious love.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Personally, I do not think Thalberg's music is worth digging up. It has some interesting technical stuff, but unfortunately, not much interesting in the way of musical stuff. All his transcriptions are typical mid-19th century fare.

The two romantic piano composers actually worthy of revival are le Monsieur Charles-Valentin Alkan and our friend from the Russian school, Mily Balakirev. They each wrote a couple masterpieces worthy of a place in the permanent repertoire.

I think Alkan has got to the stage where he has been resurrected to the point that, although he has not really acquired mainstream status, at least he is registered on the general musical consciousness. (I'd argue that he still deserves to be better-known than he is). I think Thalberg's music is worth knowing of, and that it is worthy of perfomance from time to time. In contrast to Alkan, however, I wouldn't argue for his place as a major composer. One romantic composer that I do consider to be seriously under-performed is Liapunov.

[iumonito]

Nice links.

I agree re Liapunov.  His EETs are lots of fun.

[mrdaveux]

Gould cracking on rare romantic repertoire ?

Come on now... Doc, cure yourself ! I can smell Bizet Chromatic variations around the corner each time Gould's shadow appears (he even said that it's one of the very few masterpieces to come out of XIX century 2nd half... that piece of crap !).

That's without mentioning his Strauss...

[jakev2.0]

Yeah, but we should be thankful for his Brahms

[opus10no2]

Personally, I do not think Thalberg's music is worth digging up. It has some interesting technical stuff, but unfortunately, not much interesting in the way of musical stuff. All his transcriptions are typical mid-19th century fare.

His completely original works aren't masterpieces, but are interesting, and some are beautiful and worth playing.

However, the transcriptions and paraphrases cannot be criticised in the same way.
The melodic and harmonic material is already considered 'great music', so the strength of the piece of music is already half there, the other half is structuring and pianistic presentation, which as you will admit, he was a master of.