Piano Forum

Topic: If the piano key layout were to change...  (Read 2351 times)

Offline allchopin

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1171
If the piano key layout were to change...
on: January 25, 2004, 03:49:27 AM
If the piano key layout were to be rearranged (such as if the groupings of 3/2 black keys became 2/1), would chaos ensue?
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline comme_le_vent

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 792
Re: If the piano key layout were to change...
Reply #1 on: January 25, 2004, 04:37:23 AM
sense please more make.
https://www.chopinmusic.net/sdc/

Great artists aim for perfection, while knowing that perfection itself is impossible, it is the driving force for them to be the best they can be - MC Hammer

Offline krenske

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Re: If the piano key layout were to change...
Reply #2 on: January 29, 2004, 03:19:14 PM
Well...
two legs good... one legs bad
"Horowitz died so Krenske could live."

Offline Clare

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
Re: If the piano key layout were to change...
Reply #3 on: January 30, 2004, 02:43:38 AM
I don't know whether I'd like it if the layout or the keys changed at all, but my Grandad always said he thought it was more logical if you turned a piece of music sideways so then it kind of represents where your hands are supposed to be.
Did that make sense? Probably not.

Offline chopiabin

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 925
Re: If the piano key layout were to change...
Reply #4 on: January 30, 2004, 06:12:37 AM
It sounds interseting, but could you explain a bit more?

Offline Clare

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
Re: If the piano key layout were to change...
Reply #5 on: January 30, 2004, 06:26:56 AM
Hmm..... let me see how I can explain this...
Like, my Grandad hasn't the foggiest idea how to play piano, but to him, he thought it would make more sense to turn the music so that the clefs were up the top of the page and the staves were running vertically down the page, with the bass stave then being on the left-hand side, and the treble stave being on the right-hand side. That meant you'd read the music downwards, instead of across, and the notes would then make the same shapes as the keys on the keyboard. Like, a low C would be way to the left of the stave, just like it is on the keyboard.
Does that make more sense now?

Offline surendipity

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 39
Re: If the piano key layout were to change...
Reply #6 on: February 07, 2004, 08:58:41 AM
Often thought about it.

The old clavicords had white for black keys and black for white.

I would like to paint them purple on the white and white on the black, just to be different.

Also I'd like the instrument to be rounded.  Less reaching and I could play arps faster.

Also about sheet music.

Try turning a Bach piece (preferably)  upside down and playing it thinking the bass is treble and visa versa.

Keep the same key signature first than reverse the key signature.

See what you find, it's interesting.  And will teach you alot.

Offline rachlisztchopin

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 275
Re: If the piano key layout were to change...
Reply #7 on: February 26, 2004, 07:11:53 AM
Quote


I would like to paint them purple on the white and white on the black, just to be different.



https://www.steinway.com/steinway/artcase_collection/olympia.shtml

check out this sweet steinway piano (has orange and yellow keys  ;) )

Offline Axtremus

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 507
Re: If the piano key layout were to change...
Reply #8 on: February 26, 2004, 05:19:51 PM
With the current keyboard, your fingering configuration changes completely when you transpose. In 1882, Paul von Janko patented a different keyboard that allows you to transpose to any key while still using the exact same fingering.

Janko's keyboard layout:
(Source: https://www.pianoworld.com/fun/janko.htm )

Take a Chopin Etude, once you learn it with one set of fingering on the Janko keyboard, you can use the same fingering on all keys. You cannot do that with the "standard" keyboard. (There might be pieces that you can play on the standard keyboard that you cannot on a Janko keyboard, but the reverse may be true as well if you composed for the Janko keyboard to begin with.)

There was also an experimental "concave keyboard" invented in 1887:


(Source: https://www.pianoworld.com/fun/concave.htm )

Have fun!

Offline allchopin

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1171
Re: If the piano key layout were to change...
Reply #9 on: February 26, 2004, 11:03:24 PM
The first layout looks interesting- that would be hard to figure out after having learned the original layout.  And the keys would either have to be tiered or square buttons (like a computer keyboard) with some sort of spring action.  The fingerings wouln't all be the same, because once you move over a few keys, you would have to 'wrap' to the next row (if I'm understanding this correctly).
And speaking of computer keyboards, the latter looks like a natural, ergonomic keyboard!  It's a practical idea- I wonder if it would feel right.
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline Axtremus

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 507
Re: If the piano key layout were to change...
Reply #10 on: February 26, 2004, 11:24:39 PM
Your concern about "wrapping" is valid. Nonetheless, if you follow the link and look at pictures of an actual Janko keyboard (seven octaves across every two rows instead of just two octaves across as shown in the simplified schematic I inlined), I believe you'll see that the actual keyboard is wide enough that for any piece that does not need the top six and the bottom six of the 88 notes, you can transpose to any key on the Janko keyboard and avoid "wrapping" completely if you choose the right direction to transpose. (E.g., if transposing a Perfect 5th UP will introduce a wrapping issue, then transposing a Perfect 4th DOWN will not.)

I think the above is correct. But I will think about this "wrapping" issue some more and see if I missed anything. Thanks. :)
For more information about this topic, click search below!

Piano Street Magazine:
A Jazz Piano Christmas 2024

Tradition meets modernity this year on NPR's traditional season’s celebration ”A Jazz Piano Christmas”, recorded live at The John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington D.C. on December 13. Read more
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert