Teachers Only Please

[hyrst]

Does anyone have suggestions about what to do with younger students who have little hand strength and coordination?  I have started a youngster who has some motor learning difficulties.  He can read the notes he needs to at this stage and find his way on the piano, but he is literally having to grab his fingers one by one with the other hand to choose the right finger to play with.  He also can't play one finger by itself when changing between fingers. 

I know there is a lot of difference between young ones and the strength in their fingers, but this is the worst I have seen yet.  Is it a matter of waiting for his hands to get stronger over the weeks or should I be dealing with this differently? 

I don't want him to get too frustrated.  I know piano would be very good therapy for him, but also hard work. 

Thanks

[jpianoflorida]

I've had students with that issue!   Are you it isn't just that he doesn't want to just use one finger/hand?  do you have him play a 5 finger scale?   If you happen to have a Michael Aaron method book..look at page 19-it's a great finger excercise that will help ...........also, Your website is fantastic, did you do it all yourself?   If you want to share more about it you can PM me..thanks!  jay

[jpianoflorida]

Please note: This board is primarily intended for professional pianists and piano teachers as well as piano students and amateures at an advanced level. If you are not part of this group, consider posting in the Student's Corner instead.



the above now comes up when you reply to a post in teaching? is that new? I like it! Thanks Nils!

[pianowelsh]

Have you tried some table top tricks - you dont need a piano but you work each finger systematically to gain coordination over it. Beleive Alfred do some of these??? I dont tend to use set method books so I forget where I picked it up But I find them good for developing coordination and finger control..to me strength is not so much the issue. its timing the fingers. One dosent really need a lot of strength to push a key down.

[hyrst]

Thank you.  Yes, giving it some more thought, I realised I need to break down every possible step in the process and find out what the exact root is.  I think using exercises away from the piano will be an important part of this because it is one very big thing less for him to be thinking about - we can then isolate the fingers from the sounds being produced.

Thank you.

[ingagroznaya]

hurst...i sent you a PM with more info......hopefully we can start sharing ideas here on this link.....   hope other teachers will join us soon....maybe after that we can set up some kinda of private email for our teacher group.

More info? Private e-mail group.

Looks like you have nothing to do, folks. I mean to keep your self occupied.

[tibi]

hallo, i'm 21 years old. i have teach for 4 years. i have a piano lesson since 5 years old untill now with a number of breaks in the middle. now i just teach 3 students, one is my first student, and the other two is my newest student. previously, i reach about 15 student, but by some circumtances such as student's interest and my work load (i have to concentrate on  my bachelor degree in IT),the number is decreased. 

now i have graduated, and still confusing about my future carrier. i really love music and teaching, i really wish to continue my piano study to more advanced stage. and for today, i just focusing on my teaching. 

tibi

[hyrst]

Hi Tibi,
Good to have you join us :-)

[ingagroznaya]

 Are you it isn't just that he doesn't want to just use one finger/hand? 

[ingagroznaya]

Please note: This board is primarily intended for professional pianists and piano teachers as well as piano students and amateures at an advanced level. If you are not part of this group, consider posting in the Student's Corner instead.

 

or e-mailing jpianoflorida directly. Nils, I think JP wants to start his own forum. We aren't good enough for him.

[ingagroznaya]

Hi everyone. I teach privately. Full time. In my own home studio. About 40 students ( adults and children ). 40 is about all I can handle.

I'm interested mostly in organizational issues, since I have never planned to teach at home on my own... I find it very difficult to tell a student: " Please, take your feet off my sofa " while a parent is seating right next to his own child and so on... I have no kids of my own.

I hope this is not going to be the only piano teaching thread.

I hope my spelling and my grammar does not irritates you as much as it does me.

If you unhappy about something I said - feel free to express your self the best you can.
I'm a hypocrite, so if you're responding to my post I'd like to see you writing stuff correctly, if you are using your own bloody language.

[keyofc]

A few of you asked what the Taubman method or approach is.
It is about using your hands with the greatest effieciency and in a healthy way, on the piano.
I believe Doroty Taubman really figured out a lot of moves that pianists need to do and how to do it with the greatest ease.  Using your arm and thinking of arm and hand as one unit. 
I'm not sure I am explaining it the best here.  But I have noticed since I've learned it when I play,  my hands feel much  lighter and the tone sounds much better.
The instructor I studied with said that since we have learned a lot about how the body is made in recent years - they have discovered that stretching your hand is not something you should do.  It's not good for the hand.  The Taubman method is about angling your hand in the best possible way to achieve your goal.

   If you  hear someone that has used this approach for many years, even their scales are beautiful. 
   Maybe if you try this:  Play the B Major scale.  Notice how your arm automatically moves in to play C# (if it doesn't, your wrist probably does)  The B Major scale's topography causes our hands to move in a certain way..   Try Playing C  major scale using some of the motions that B Major scale causes you to do.  I'm not sure how clear this is - but please tell me if you notice a better sound in your c major scale now.
  This is my own attempt to describe what is better shown by doing.  Anyway, that's just a small piece of the logic they use.  Also they stress rotation - moving hands sideways more.

[jpianoflorida]

or e-mailing jpianoflorida directly. Nils, I think JP wants to start his own forum. We aren't good enough for him.

It would be nice if you actually sometimes knew what you were talking about!   the statement that says "this board is primarily intended for teachers" was place on the board by a moderator...so please tell me what you are talking about?   Actually don't tell me, why is it that 99 percent of the people on this forum post things to help while you mostly post things to try to put others down and you always want to disagree? I'm just curious? Does putting others down make you feel better about yourself?

[ingagroznaya]

It would be nice if you actually sometimes knew what you were talking about! 

 "Are you it isn't just that he doesn't want to just use one finger/hand? "

 

Same here, oh same here JP.

I am not trying to put anyone down. I am suggesting that as a teacher one should be as minimum easily understood.

Being a foreigner ( teaching not in my language ) sometimes makes me say things that don't come out right. If you don't see the humor of the situation, you're taking your self way too seriously. Relax. No one out there is trying to hurt you.

[pianistimo]

dear hyrst,

sometimes parents, out of desperation, don't tell you everything about a child (neurolgically).  so, then (without child present) you ask them - is there anything you want to tell me about your son/daughter that i should be aware of?  i've noticed 'blah blah.'  if they haven't told you anything before - you can be sure it will come out now! 

if you are patient and really don't care about speed of progress - they'll probably end up being persistent students and surprise you at how much effort they put into learning - despite the small results at first.  they really should be praised, imo, for whatever milestones that are reached and however small they are.

with this type of student, i think you have to think 'outside the box.'  hopefully we start thinking that way for all students - but these students might need some creative stuff.  ask the parents what methods their teachers or tutors use.  if there are things you can transfer over? 

a lot has been found out about asperger's syndrom for instance.  it was once thought that autism was just that - but there are about six branches of it - and varying degrees.  it is said  that one child in 166 births will be diagnosed with autism.  autism has five spectrum disorders:  asperger's, rett's, childhood disintegrative disorder, and pervasive developmental disorders - as well as full blown autism.

sometimes some parents are not as keen as others to really want a 'diagnosis' - so, i really wouldn't know what to say for this type of student.  maybe keeping a diary and then asking on various forums - what the symptoms are indicative of? 

some teachers get really po'd about memory problems (ie the child has to do so much repeating) - but if you already know there's a problem - consider it pen money and just make the lessons fun.  not everyone is meant to be a concert pianist anyways - but then again, i suppose an autistic student who likes piano COULD.  blind students such as ms paradis (mozart's student) was quite gifted.  mozart and her previous teacher must have been creative, too, to help her along!

[pianistimo]

ps not trying to make any sort of connection between coordination and autism, btw.  just using it as an example.  do you think boys in general  sometimes start off disadvantaged in hand coordination and improve vastly in middle school and beyond?  haven't studied this - but it seems that more girls are inclined to like playing piano at first.

if i were to just make up stuff for the parents to do with the child - it wouldn't all deal with music.  perhaps playing more with clay?  pottery.  art.  picking up items.  tying knots.  folding clothes.  (haha)

and, sometimes these types of students just like to talk, too, don't they?  maybe just developing a good friendship and generally having fun!  nothing too serious.  i can imagine that some mom's just need the break!

[jpianoflorida]

Same here, oh same here JP.

I am not trying to put anyone down. I am suggesting that as a teacher one should be as minimum easily understood.

Being a foreigner ( teaching not in my language ) sometimes makes me say things that don't come out right. If you don't see the humor of the situation, you're taking your self way too seriously. Relax. No one out there is trying to hurt you.

well if you don't think you've been putting others down, then you need to reread your post! but i say we put all of it behind us and move forward!  There are others on the forum that get the same reaction to your posts as I--I know because I have discussed with them.   In the future hopefully whatever problem you seem to have with me , which probably comes from some religious discussion, or maybe some other issue, you will put aside for the good of the forum ....   thanks!

[ingagroznaya]

well if you don't think you've been putting others down, then you need to reread your post! but i say we put all of it behind us and move forward!  There are others on the forum that get the same reaction to your posts as I--I know because I have discussed with them.   In the future hopefully whatever problem you seem to have with me , which probably comes from some religious discussion, or maybe some other issue, you will put aside for the good of the forum ....   thanks!

Whoa, this is a full bloody threat, JP.  You can not read the foolishness you wrote and laugh at your self?
I find your prediction very peculiar... Religion discussion, huh? On a teaching forum?

[hyrst]

Thankyou Pianistimo.  That was very helpful and important advice. I think you really understood the sitiuation.  I think there are some neuroligcal issues here - I'm just not sure what and I am a little shy to ask directly.  I know it is not an intellectual problem - he learns ideas quite perceptively but he doesn't speak beyond a few quiet sounds (I am not sure even if he is using words).  He does demonstrate that he understands (I use things he cna manipulate - like letters.  I am not even sure that his mother knows what the problem is.  She has said that he is a slow learner, but that is not actually the case.  Perhpas there is a problem that has not been diagnosed.

At this point in time, his mother seems supportive about getting him to lessons.  She seems to have a generally earnest sense about her.  I think she is concerned about his development.  I am going to try some more occupational therapy type techniques, like the clay. 

I wasn't sure how extreme this level of coordination lack was.  Have you experienced this type of thing before, Pianistimo?  You sound fairly knowledgeable.

[penguinlover]

I haven't ever taught piano to a handicapped person.  A mother at my church has asked me to teach her daughter, but I don't think I would know how to go about it.  The child is very handicapped, rather spastic with her arm movements.  I don't know if she could control her hands.  She sings beautifully, so maybe it would come easier than I think.  Anyone have any ideas?

[hyrst]

What a wonderful challenge, Penguin!  Lots of work with planning, though.  I would love to do that myself. 

I guess you have the up side that their expectations would be realistic.  The girl and mother woudl be more familiar with her struggles and limitations than you would ever be, so they would appreciate every thing you gave and every bit of progress she made.

I haven't much to say, because I don't know a lot about this type of disability.  I would ask what sorts of therapy they use for small movement control, andadapt these to playing the piano.  I think you would probably need a lot of larger muscle support so that she could concentrate on the smaller muscles - so you would need a well suited arm chair at the piano. 

Reading music wouldn't be involved, so I would build a good theory base.  It sounds like she has a good ear, and possibly a good musical imagination.  I would develop a more wholistic music education, with an awareness of styles.  Get her to compose from day 1, by singing the notes and you wriitng them or her giving you letter names.  Use the singing as a central support of her playing - so have her sing everything she is trying to play and have the playing as something that supports her singing.  Play lots of duets.

It sounds like so much fun, if you can manage it with time and everything. 

I'd love to hear advice as well, and also to hear how things are going form time to time if you do take her on, Penguin.

I have been approached recently about taking a 4 year old deaf girl.  That is not definite yet, but I am hoping it will be.  I know it's an entirely different type of disability, so I don't know if I should be mentioning it now, but I am really interested in exploring different approaches to teaching special needs students. 

[penguinlover]

Thanks for the encouragement, Hyrst!  I would probably have to teach everything by rote, because she is severely mentally handicapped as well.  I don't know if she would ever be able to read music.  I love your idea of having her compose her own music, and match her voice to the note.  I am of the opinion that any music training is good for the brain.  The doctors said she would never walk or talk, but she proved them wrong.  I am excited about the possibilities here.

I am sure she couldn't practice as long as other students, and maybe her lesson would have to be shorter.  I will keep you posted if it happens.  Thanks