Teachers Only Please

[jpianoflorida]

On this forum sometimes it's hard to know who is involved in what in the piano business...If you are a teacher, post here please and let us know, do you teach at home? private studio? school, etc? and any other info you would like to share....I would like to see us teachers getting back to discussing issues to help us in our daily lessons and running our businesses...thanks!

[hyrst]

Yes, I appreciate the exchange of ideas and thought provocactions - that is why I come to the forums.  I want to learn and be challenged.

I am a private teacher, with my studio set up on the ground floor of my house.  I have been playing for 30 years, and began teaching (non-professionally) as a late teenager.  In the last year, I have set myself up as a proper business and am trying to establish a full-time practice.  In my late teens, I became 'domesticated' and had a family - now teenagers themselves.  I taught a little on the side, but stopped playing concerts and having my own lessons. 

I have spent about 10 years as a public school teacher and correspondence student, and have masters and a number of specialisations in education and psychology.  I now plan to teach piano for the remainder of my career and have gone back into studying and practicing myself.  I am rather rusty as a player, although I am working hard on it, becuase I haven't had my own supervisor for a while and I lost the use of my hands due to arthritis.  I am very pleased that I am making good progress these days, but there are still pretty often days that I want to give up in despair because I just can't do what I used to.  I am redoing my performance diplomas as a target for getting my own playing back together.

I now have about 10 students, from 2 years of age to 75+  I am still in the learning stages - but I think I am doing OK.  So many of my students seem to be gifted and I am very proud of them.  I think I must be one of the few, lucky teachers whose students seem to be nearly always enthusiastic - even lighting up the room with enthusiasm.  Most of my students are beginners, but I have a few who are more advanced and one who started this year and is now intermediate.  I keep worrying that I won't know what to do next to support the intermediate level students - but I think I am staying one step ahead in the planning.  I guess all the knowledge and experience will be fine tuned as I go along - but I am keen to learn anything I can from anyone here on the forum.

Hope this isn't too much said, but I wanted to support the idea of this mesage thread. 

[jpianoflorida]

hurst...i sent you a PM with more info......hopefully we can start sharing ideas here on this link.....   hope other teachers will join us soon....maybe after that we can set up some kinda of private email for our teacher group.

[pianowelsh]

I graduated from music college as a pianist and whilst there also took a diploma in teaching..i now work three-quarter time as a teacher both from home and and travelling to students.. I specialise in Adult beginners and restarters although I have a couple of younger ones.  I have a few who are more advanced and have studied with even pretty distinguished teachers in the passed but have had a gap in their formal education and are now resuming..with good results I might add. Im currently only teaching 12 students but I plan to allow this to increase to a max of 15 in the next few months as I am trying to remain fairly active as a player myself and am preparing repertoire for competitions/festivals 2007!!   Im also looking into an MA part-time in teaching private practice but funding is an issue at present.

[jpianoflorida]

well I guess I should give some info about myself since I started this!

I teach fulltime at my home(have a separate building for a studio) in Florida.   I currently have around 90 students..this year has been overwhelming but good!     I've been teaching fulltime for over 12 years now.   I studied piano as a child/teenager and it was always a hoby and I was involved in playing for church,etc.      After around 10 years in the corporate world( I was teaching a few students as well) I decided to go for fullltime teaching and it's been a great time.      It's nice to enjoy what you do every day.    Even on a day that's not so great, I'd much rather work for myself and be able to teach piano. I'm currently involved in 2 weekly nursing home ministries.  I have also been a music director in church.

[lostinidlewonder]

Personally I find that the teacher/student barrier crumbles to pieces when we study practical music. The teacher is a student just as much as the student, and the student is a teacher just as much as the teacher! This is because there are so many ways to express music, multiple paths, there is not always a simple a right or wrong answer. It is definately not mathematics.

My education background is very unorthodoxed for a musician. I am a trained engineer and have a very methodical, scientific approach to everything I do, especially music. Everything I do in music is measured, written down, put on a timetable (not that I do this with my own students, not many of them would be disiplined enough to work on a timetable but some advanced hard working students of mine do this.)

I am a natural musician, I don't really remember what my teachers (some internationally famous) tell me, rather I rely on what I have found works for me and my students (although a lot of general comments from teachers stick in my head and do guide me now and then.) I really think finding your own path is important for music, and it is alspo important to undertsand how to sense where others are on their musical path, and how to direct them through their own personal journey.

I find studying music with students is like a doctor looking at a patient. The doctor usually knows nothing unless the patient informs them about their situation. Same with piano, I know nothing unless the student actually plays for me, I have to know if errors they make are one off or consisitent mistakes, I have to be able to tell how to remedy bad technique and make things comfortable for my students hands and make things sound good. I have to work out multiple therapies for a single problem sometimes!

I currently teach at schools and privately in peoples homes. I will be setting up a music school in a couple of years (2008) in a city called Mandurah (also where I grew up), I am still building the student/teacher network before doing that and have been working on that for the last 7 years. Also keeping an eye out for good music teachers which are very few here in West Australia. I do a lot of writing about piano technique and learning too.

[jpianoflorida]

i understand where you are coming from to a point....    I also know about engineers----one of my best friends is an engineer: very methodical...he has a hard time just being spontaneous! EVERYTHING has to be fully planned out! I like organization but I also like to leave room for change and spontaneous planning.      What do you mean by "practical music"? that confuses me.     Keep in mind, just because you didn't need to listen to what teachers told you, that doesn't mean you will have students like that! and also I like you analogy of doctor/patient, but if you are teaching begginners then that's a totally different situation, especially if they are very young.

[lostinidlewonder]

I like organization but I also like to leave room for change and spontaneous planning.

I don't like to wait for something to strike me before I set off to go do it. To me spontaneous stuff doesn't make sense because everything I do must be planned, then I can control what I do, everyone works differently thats for sure. Of course now and then I might get totally distracted from what I should be studying and delve into other music. But these really distract me from my most efficient path through music. There is a lifetimes worth of music to get through, I honestly think I will die before I get through everything, but we can try!

What do you mean by "practical music"?

I mean playing piano, not theory, but yet again, theory can be sometimes very two sided but often there is a basic teacher/student relationship, unless you study composition then it's more like a shared effort, teacher trying to learn from the students ideas, the student trying to learn from the teachers superior theory.

Keep in mind, just because you didn't need to listen to what teachers told you, that doesn't mean you will have students like that!

I didn't mean to say I didn't listen to my teachers, it's just what they said made musical sense to me anyway and I would do what they say automatically because thats what I would naturally do. They simply confirmed what I thought was correct. I think this is an important way to study music, to have an idea as to how the piano should be played test these ideas, get them supported by teachers or by those listening to your playing, or by the physical feeling you get that comes from your body. Of course some beginners have 0 concept of how to play, but you force them into thinking about it no matter how feeble their ideas might seem.

I tell my students to always be comfortable, if you are comfortable then do it (some beginners might think a wrong movement is comfrotable simply because the have never experienced the most effective movement, in that case you must direct them to the better.) I ask students to always search for what is most comfortable for yourself. I really throw even my young beginner students into the deep end to question themselves, what is the best fingering and why. What the is the best way to have the hand so we don't feel tired or have difficulties while playing.

Of course I spoon feed a lot of my beginner students, set their hands in the right place by verbal directions, asking them to sense where the centre of their hands are, what the group of notes they must play are before playing them, the shape these groups produce etc etc. A lot of stuff which I learnt over years of observation of the piano I can try to train into students in a few lessons (but which too will take them years to develop). Effective ways to actually look at the piano, how to actually memorise what you play and how to read music faster, how to actually feel your fingers while they play a group of notes and how to listen to the sound you make.

Very rarely I'll actually holding their hand into place because that is too much spoon feeding imo. I try to never directly tell my students anything, just question them and push them in the right direction until they answer it themselves (sometimes this needs a lot of hints to a ridiculous point ). If they play a wrong note continuously I'll ask them something sounds wrong, I might play the passage for them with the correct note and ask them to spot the difference.

So long I am always getting them to think musically and make decisions for themselves. I think that is what I really meant by saying I am a natural musician. In the fact that I know how to invesigate music, and how to use my instruments to produce that desired sound, I knew this because I just knew how to look at music without anyone telling me, I don't know call it a gift, I think we all have musical gifts in some form, I think if you can tap a beat and rhythm you can learn music. I have a strong feeling that everyone is naturally a musician, but some must train harder than others to attain confidence that they can progress through music with their own ideas.

I like you analogy of doctor/patient, but if you are teaching begginners then that's a totally different situation, especially if they are very young.

Yeah I find this analogy even fits for beginners, there is a big disease which causes holes all over their piano technique. There is nothing there, inexperience squeezes most of the life out of their music creation. As teachers we slowly chip away at their problems, prescribing methods to promote the filling in of their technique gaps... Sounds more like a dentist filling in cavities to me now that I think about it.

For my more advanced students I find it more like an atheletics coach or something. There is not so much problems with how they play, but with how effective they are in getting to the end point of their study. You have got to increase their speed in absorbing music and now and then wipe out any bad technical habits that might creep in.

[pianowelsh]

Me too, me too!  I always ask so many questions of my student.  I believe in teaching them to be autonimous as early as possible..it helps them practice better and better practice means better progress.

[sarahlein]

On this forum sometimes it's hard to know who is involved in what in the piano business...If you are a teacher, post here please and let us know, do you teach at home? private studio? school, etc? and any other info you would like to share....I would like to see us teachers getting back to discussing issues to help us in our daily lessons and running our businesses...thanks!

I'm currently working as a private piano teacher although in the past I have worked for both a music concervatory and a private music school. I drive to my student's homes which isn't so bad since they all live in the same town. It's a small place so I can practically walk to each one.

Most of my students are transfer students. Sometimes it can be very frastrating to see how many bad habits they come with  . But experience has taught me it's not always a neglect on the part of the previous teacher (I must admit, there was a time when I was very upset with the obvious lack of ability of some teachers ) Sometimes it's just plain stubbornness on the part of the student not to change-when change was needed.

Then you work so hard with them and they make amazing progress- only for them to move again and another teacher to enjoy your hard labor.

My wish would be to have a few students that stay and don't move away so I can watch them grow into self-confident young adults not necessarily accomplished pianists
(although that would be nice to see too).

[ingagroznaya]

I teach fulltime at my home(have a separate building for a studio) in Florida.   I currently have around 90 students..

Jpianoflorida, how on earth do you manage 90 students? How long are your lessons? Do they all ( students ) come weekly? Adults? Kids? Groups? How many hours per week do you work? What is your schedule? Who are your students?

[jpianoflorida]

Jpianoflorida, how on earth do you manage 90 students? How long are your lessons? Do they all ( students ) come weekly? Adults? Kids? Groups? How many hours per week do you work? What is your schedule? Who are your students?

1/2 hour lessons.... i work mon-saturday.....all ages, from 4yr to adults....a lot of homeschoolers...it's manageable if you are organized and don't mind the hours...    some are 3 in a family that we split the hour....   most are begginners, some advanced.

[ingagroznaya]

1/2 hour lessons.... i work mon-saturday.....all ages, from 4yr to adults....a lot of homeschoolers...it's manageable if you are organized and don't mind the hours...    some are 3 in a family that we split the hour....   most are begginners, some advanced.

For some reason I find it very difficult to believe that with 50 hours of teaching + extra organizational work required, you still have time to post here. 30 minutes for an advanced student?

[jpianoflorida]

many people work 60 hours with their job, don't they?  not that unusual...especially for self employed people.   

[penguinlover]

I am a piano teacher, but currently I only have two students.  I teach out of my home.  I have had more students in the past, but circumstances dictate my limiting them now.  I used to go to their homes.  I had 18 on one day!  I think I like going to their homes better.  If I had my own studio, I would like that best!  I found myself identifying with hyrst.  I have played for 42 years.  I should be much more accomplished, but stopped to have a family.  I am very serious about playing and teaching now, hope it't not too late.

[jpianoflorida]

I am a piano teacher, but currently I only have two students.  I teach out of my home.  I have had more students in the past, but circumstances dictate my limiting them now.  I used to go to their homes.  I had 18 on one day!  I think I like going to their homes better.  If I had my own studio, I would like that best!  I found myself identifying with hyrst.  I have played for 42 years.  I should be much more accomplished, but stopped to have a family.  I am very serious about playing and teaching now, hope it't not too late.

it's never too late! plus just from your posts, i'm going to say I think you are probably a dedicated great teacher! I sense real concern for others when I read your post!

[pianowolfi]

I'm a private piano teacher. Some students come to my home but most of them I am driving to. Music is my life. But often I'm very frustrated with what I have achieved as well as with what I achieve with my students. Actually i guess I am too missionary and to less pragmatic. I'd like to convince everyone of the worth of good music, of the importance of making music yourself, of the right fingerings, of everything I find right and true. And then I'm always disappointed when I notice for the 100th time that I am a really bad missionary. The more i try to convince people, the more they tend to do something else than I think is good for them. I'm still learning to teach, after 18 years of experience and I often say to myself, that each new student is a totally new beginning for myself too.

[nanabush]

I teach in a private studio.   Have been for about 2 months now, and I have 12 students I think... not bad for just 2 months 

[ingagroznaya]

many people work 60 hours with their job, don't they?  not that unusual...especially for self employed people.   

I think you are comparing oranges to apples. 50 hours of actual teaching can't possibly compare to 50 hours of office work. What is your schedule looks like? How many hours do you teach without taking a break? What are the hours you're working? Do you invoice your students? How do you manage to collect 90 checks? When do you deal with all those phone calls from parents? Do you answer the phone when you teach? And most importantly, how do you market your self to homeschoolers? Please, share.

[lostinidlewonder]

I have over 100 students, but they don't all work with me every single week. I have at the moment 23 which are every week. Doing 90 seems insane, makes me think of like sheep running through a gate. Spending 30 mins with advanced students seems impossible to me. Also your students would have to mostly be older retired people because during the weekdays during school time no kid can leave school to visit the studio, nor can anyone who has a daytime job. Unless you work after hours, but then you would have to work like from 4pm to 4am. So it doesn't really work...

[jpianoflorida]

I have no idea why you think what i do is impossible.     I teach until 9pm most days.   I have probably 25 homeschoolers who can come in the daytime.   adults come in daytime.  Why invoice students? they pay the same everymonth-hey hand me a check.    90percent of my students communicate via email.... NO i dont' answer the phone during lessons.   i do this every week!   oh, and 50 hours of teaching versus office work, why do you feel that is different???   it's not when you love teaching, and you hated when you worked 60 hours in the "corporate world"...      What I do works for me and my students.

[jpianoflorida]

ps: Teaching is my only job, only source of income!   what about you guys?

[jpianoflorida]

I'm a private piano teacher. Some students come to my home but most of them I am driving to. Music is my life. But often I'm very frustrated with what I have achieved as well as with what I achieve with my students. Actually i guess I am too missionary and to less pragmatic. I'd like to convince everyone of the worth of good music, of the importance of making music yourself, of the right fingerings, of everything I find right and true. And then I'm always disappointed when I notice for the 100th time that I am a really bad missionary. The more i try to convince people, the more they tend to do something else than I think is good for them. I'm still learning to teach, after 18 years of experience and I often say to myself, that each new student is a totally new beginning for myself too.

i like what you say about "each student is a new beggining!" I like your attitude!

[pianowolfi]

i like what you say about "each student is a new beggining!" I like your attitude!

Thanks. Yeah no student is like the other. Recently I started to teach an absolutely adorable 7j. old who is so different from my other students. She is able to work on 3 or 4 pieces per week for herself and when I don't give her at least two new pieces to learn she tells me "you can give me more. I can learn them by myself." She has had lessons with another teacher before. unfortunately that teacher left without giving me the chance to talk to her (that teacher i mean). So i don't know for sure if that teacher is a genius or just the girl herself. That is really precious and I hope every week, it will stay like that with her. I never had a student like that before. And i am very careful to do everything right and to make no mistakes when i teach her.

[amanfang]

I am a fairly new teacher.  I am a graduate assistant at a university and teach non-major piano students (I have 10), a few from the high school, and a few from the jr high.  I also teach 2 beginning piano classes.  I also teach a few students at a different local studio (I was also supposed to teach Kindermusik for them on Saturdays, but it didn't work out), and then I teach a family and I go to their house.  I teach all levels except for super-advanced.  I have a six year old beginner, and my most advanced students are playing Beethoven sonatas.  Any ideas that people have to share are always appreciated.   

[hyrst]

Great to have you around, Amanfang.  Hope to hear more from you. :-)

[pizno]

Sounds like we have a lot of new teachers here!  I am also new, having only started teaching this fall.  I will be 50 in a few weeks - which is hard for me to believe - and have teenaged daughters.
I got a bachelors degree in Biology and worked in that field part time for many years - but was growing tired of that and ready for a change, without wanting to go back to college for another degree.  I have played piano since I was 7, and took lessons until I was 18, and then again for the past 20 years.   Something really sparked my passion for piano about three years ago and I just got more involved with it, studying more seriously, practicing a ton, performing, going to piano camp, and most recently, studying the Jane Tan Well Prepared Pianist Program.  I wasn't sure about teaching - but decided to give it a go. One reason I started teaching is so that I can support my piano habit!   I now have 6 students, and each lesson is a learning experience for me.  I am a little afraid that they will discover I'm a poser, but so far, they seem to like me and are learning, and we're having fun.  2 of my students are transfer students - which as someone earlier said, very frustrating.  It's hard to believe that after 3 years of lessons, some students simply cannot read music.  It makes me realize the need for good teachers.  I'm still getting my act together as a teacher, but it is exciting and fun so far.  Meanwhile, I take am working on a Chopin Ballade(it's a stretch for me), Handel Suite and Debussy prelude and I just started playing with a cellist recently.  My own piano playing is very, very important to me, though I too get frustrated with my limitations (I think they are mostly in my brain) and that I can't play how I would like to.  But I keep trying.

Oh - and my lessons are 45 minutes, and I charge $30, in case anyone wondered.  I wish they were an hour.  I am scrambling to get everything done in that time.

Pizno

[penguinlover]

I love teaching!  I love seeing them "get it" and play something they are proud of.  I love it when they bring in extra music they want to play.  Man, maybe someday I will have my own studio with 90, no that's too many for me.  I talk too much.  Maybe thirty students.  But I am old too.  Maybe we should start a thread for teachers over fifty!  (wonder who would own up to that?)

[hyrst]

Thanks for your comments, Penguinlover and Pizno.  You gave me a laugh and a smile I really neded today!  :-)

How well I can relate!

Pizno, doesn't it help a lot, when you feel a like poser and you have these students transfer to you?  I have a couple who come out with comments like, "I can't believe the lesson's over, I used to count the seconds with my old teacher!"  Or they can't believe it when I tell them they've seen me at my worst already - they say they keep waiting for me to yell at them for playing something wrong!  And then, you have them reading and enjoying music in a reasonably short time when after 2 years they got nowhere!  It really helps a lot.

Sure, we have things to learn  - I worry that I have so much more to learn than I know.  I worry that people will find out how much I don't know, or that I won't know what to do next.  Still, I have students whose learning rate is amazing me - and most importantly, they are loving what they are doing.  They give me a reason not to give up when I am doubting myself.

How lucky are we?!

[jpianoflorida]

thanks everyone for signing on this thread!  now, Why don't we post some topics to discuss...(and let's please make sure we give each other positive advice..let's not let this thread end up off topic and let's make sure no one puts down another poster or puts them in a position to have to be defensive).We are here to help each other and learn from each other.....THANKS..

jay

First topic:   Have you ever had a student that just doesn't get it? even after maybe say a year or so, but yet they don't want to quit?   I have a few...it's a tough situation!     you try everything thing, change methods...some just have learning problems with piano.....

[ingagroznaya]

thanks everyone for signing on this thread!  now, Why don't we post some topics to discuss...(and let's please make sure we give each other positive advice..let's not let this thread end up off topic and let's make sure no one puts down another poster or puts them in a position to have to be defensive).We are here to help each other and learn from each other.....THANKS..

jay

First topic:   Have you ever had a student that just doesn't get it? even after maybe say a year or so, but yet they don't want to quit?   I have a few...it's a tough situation!     you try everything thing, change methods...some just have learning problems with piano.....

My point exactly, after 90 student per week and 12 years teaching full time, it's not the questions you should be asking.

[pianowelsh]

I dont agree. There are all kinds of students out there and at the end of the day we are all going to come up against someone who just doesnt catch our wavelength - it is absolutely no reflection on the teacher! jppianoflorida has tried different methods and ways of explaining a principle and im sure she hasnt made the student feel small or in anyway stupid for not understanding.. It seems she is a very consiencious teacher. In such situations sometimes you just have to take a side step and revisit it later in the hope it will eventually click - else the student will get stale.. Its difficult to give porper suggestiosn because you dont mention what the student is 'not getting'. If the student really isnt progressing and you have tried everything and even coming back to it dosent work, then hard as it is it may be better for the teacher to be honest and say well prehaps im not the right teacher for you and refer them onto a collegue for a fresh approach.  Its better that than completely killing their interest and sometimes is just a different voice telling them tyhe same thing that works - Thats Life!

[jpianoflorida]

My point exactly, after 90 student per week and 12 years teaching full time, it's not the questions you should be asking.

If you aren't going to add to positive discussion I suggest you ignore this thread!   I have no need to defend anything to you!  You don't know me, you haven't heard my students, you have no idea how I teach!  Your negativity is not needed!    If you want to post a new thread to bash other teachers, I suggest you do that!  Besides, if you aren't always questioning how you do things and looking for new and exciting ways, then you have become a stale teacher!    Or maybe you have a jealousy issue? Anyway, I'm not going to respond to your negativity in the future.       Oh, and pianowelsh...thanks, and I'm a guy..lol     

jay

[hyrst]

I find it really hard sometimes to work out how to get through to a couple of students - having tried everything that works for some other studenta and coming up with even more ideas, and they still don't get it.  I have one 5 year old boy who I am pretty stumped with.  He can read really well away from the piano, is even beginning to compose using notation (including quavers) - but I just can't get the ideas through when we go back to the  piano.  I think it is a matter of patience with him, though - he wants to get to the other end of the piece rather than thinking about the music. 

The other student who seems to be taking a long time to get anywhere, a 6 year old, I think is not really doing any practice.  Every week we seem to be doing the same old slow note reading, just new pieces.  On the other hand, he is only 6 and I have some students who are developing very quickly - so maybe my judgements are based on lack of experience combined with high standards.

[jpianoflorida]

I find it really hard sometimes to work out how to get through to a couple of students - having tried everything that works for some other studenta and coming up with even more ideas, and they still don't get it.  I have one 5 year old boy who I am pretty stumped with.  He can read really well away from the piano, is even beginning to compose using notation (including quavers) - but I just can't get the ideas through when we go back to the  piano.  I think it is a matter of patience with him, though - he wants to get to the other end of the piece rather than thinking about the music. 

The other student who seems to be taking a long time to get anywhere, a 6 year old, I think is not really doing any practice.  Every week we seem to be doing the same old slow note reading, just new pieces.  On the other hand, he is only 6 and I have some students who are developing very quickly - so maybe my judgements are based on lack of experience combined with high standards.

Yes...5 and 6 year old can be so different! I have some who pick up evertying right away! Others are much slower.. It think a  lot of it will also have to do with how are they doing academically! are they in school or preschool yet?   I guess we all learn at different speeds...and sometimes that's hard for us to understand as teachers! We sometimes just can't understand why they don't get it! I guess we have to remember that we've been playing for many years and it comes naturally now to us.   

[amanfang]

I find that sometimes I just have adjust my expectations.  I also had a 5 year old who was not getting it.  We spent about 8 months working mostly on just feeling a steady beat for 4 beats, then eventually 8 beats.  And he finally got it.  Now I've got him in Faber's new method for 5 and 6 year olds, and he loves it!  He has finally taken off.  I think the coordination was a big thing for a while.  Now, I have a 13 year old girl just starting out, and she is NOT getting it.  I found that I needed to adjust my expectations.  She is not as quick as others.  So I adjust my teaching pace.  Every week I have her bump up her practice time some, and I do not assign as much material as I normally would.  I really do think that some people will just struggle with piano, and it is not necessarily due to bad teaching.

[keyofc]

Hi, I was happy to see this thread since sometimes we do get off the subject of teaching.
I have been teaching for about 8 years professionally.
I have played piano all my life - and it never dawned on me until ten years ago that I could actually do something I loved and get paid for it.  It seemed like cheating.
I always thought you were supposed to hate work, hence never even thought of being a piano teacher when I was a lot younger.
I play in church  and lead worship services at nearby churches from time to time.  I also lead a music team with my husband at a nursing home twice a month.

I have been learning the Taubman approach in the last year and a half. ( I found it very frustrating at first, but it has helped me)  And I also am taking jazz piano lessons.  I write hymns and contemporary worship music and am planning on putting them together in a book down the road.

I have only about 11 students right now.

I would like to learn more from other teachers experiences too.

As for having a student that seemed to never get it - I have had one for 3 years.  Every time I ask her if she still likes piano - she says yes.   I was so close to telling her parents I didn't think she should continue, but they asked me if I could extend the lesson time before I got a chance to say what I had planned.  I was so shocked, I just said, "Well, let's just try if for a month and see" 

I have come to the realization that the student likes me more than the music lessons.  At first I felt guilty about it.  But then I was told she quits things easy and has never wanted to quit piano.  I feel she could be getting a lot more out of the music  lessons, but she is getting confidence in playing in front of others, even if her level of playing is not going up they way it should, due to lack of practice.  When I  put her in with a duet, she responds with a spirit of competition and does a lot better.
  I feel it's very good for her self-esteem, but I wish she would "get it" when playing by herself. 

[hyrst]

It is so encouraging to hear that students 'not getting it' is a common experience.  It means I can stop questioning whether I'm the one who 'deson't get it' as the teacher, and just patiently keep trying new ideas, being creative and being consistent.  :-)

 KeyofC, what is the Taubman approach?

[penguinlover]

I agree.  I have one student who started out great, but as time wore on, she lost interest in practicing.  She says she wants to play piano, so we plod along.  She is progressing, but oh, so slowly.  I am glad to hear that it's not necessarily me!

[jpianoflorida]

YES! now this forum is once again being beneficial to us teachers! In fact, i've quit reading the "anything but piano" board.     I was getting distracted by all the debating over there myself!      I think we need to question what we do, how we do it, etc on a daily basis.     If we don't aren't we missing the opportunity to learn and grow as teachers?   Oh, and welcome "keyofc"  . I like what you have to say.....I also want to know what the "taubman" approach.      Don't you feel like we do more than teach piano?    That's why even if a student isn't progressing as much as we would like, we have to think of all the other benefits that student may be getting.   That's why I can't understand some teachers that will kick students out for not practicing or abiding by all the "studio policies" etc.         If you "fire" someone from your studio , you could be responsible for making that person hate music in the future----and maybe one day that student would have blossomed if given time .  Have you ever had students(i've had many) that didn't practice, take it serious, etc...then one day something happens and they get excited?       I've been asked to coordinate musical entertainment for our art museum for a big exhibit they are having.    Some of my students will be performing mini concerts every weekend for several month.    It's exciting!   We are still working out all the details.    Seems like new opportunities keep appearing. This is great! I do nursing home recitals every summer....they are so much fun!   Last year instead of a formal recital we did a benefit concert/spaghetti dinner/silent auction for a homeless ministry that I am involved with----everyone got so excited about it!   Also, this year my students are collecting toys for migrant workers families.    One of my students mom asked if they could sell crafts in the studio and all the money was going to go to buy toys for the migrant workers families.   Ok, I'll stop rambling now......Just wanted to share what's going on in my studio.

[penguinlover]

I am not acquainted with the "taubman" approach either.  Care to elaborate?

[hyrst]

I agree we do a lot more than 'teach music'.  We help kids (and adults) build skills, we give them important contacts and relationships outside the family, we help build their self-worth, etc.  I believe it is our job as teachers to nurture and enrich the kids who come to us, to contribute to their lives mentally, emotionally, spiritually, socially.  We are mentors to them. 

This stood out to me the other day, teaching a 2 year old at her house.  When I arrived, her mum said she wanted me to go to her bedroom.  The little girl had stayed in bed all morning because she wanted to make sure 'Miss Annah' got to see her bedroom and her new pyjamas.  She introduced me to all her cuddly toys and the teddy came to have a lesson at the piano. 

I think the time we spend 'with' students is just as important as the content of the lesson.  Being with them seems to have a lot to do with taking notice of each one as an individual and also using teaching approaches that they enjoy. 

I have been amused in the last couple of weeks with the 5 year old I mentioned before.  He has started asking to copy out the music every week.  I have stayed longer after lessons so we can 'draw' what is in the books (inicluding the pictures).  He has intitiated this - but I can't think of a better way to get him to take notice of the details in the score - and he acts as if we are drawing and colouring in pictures together (playing together). 

Now, I would have thought that telling a kid to rewrite music would be a boring acitivity - but he has chosen it and now he is writing his own music, bit by bit. He is learning the processes and trying a few simple ideas.  We have covered so much theory playing this 'game'.  (Unfortunately, he has talked a couple of times about sending his work to the publisher - I am hoping that idea just fades away without becoming a problem.  Explaining copyright doesn't mean much to a 5 year old.  After all, someone else has got published what he has just rewritten, so why shouldn't his work be published too?!  LOL!)

Annah

[ako]

I've been teaching for 2 years and have 5 students, some transfer and some total beginners. They range from 8-16. I go to their houses to teach the lessons and prefer it that way. Maybe if I get more students and teach full-time, it would make sense to have them come to my house.

My other jobs include substitute teaching, web quality rater (telecommute), and singing professionally. I had been project manager for a high tech. company for the past 8 years and decided to take a break to find myself and do what I love.

I am taking piano lessons also to make sure my skills as a musician don't rust. Also, being on the receiving side of a lesson helps me to be a better teacher.

I don't have any students who just "don't get it". Probably because I have so few students and most of them are beginners. My intermediate/early advanced student sometimes will give me that feeling that she did not get it. But amazing after a few lessons, she will suddenly surprise me by playing exactly the way I had asked her to. I am very happy with all of my students.

[pianowelsh]

hyrst you say its only when the student comes to the piano there are problems and they can read fine away form the piano??? Do I understand you correctly? Thats curious?? Have you tried some REALLY practical note finding games on the piano...ie ok find me this chain of notes (highest F, lowest B, middle D, High f#) I do this with a lot of students and it seems to help them connect the written with the visual on the keyboard. Another good way is to make flash cards for the student to use as a warm up in the lesson but also at home so they have to find the note written on the card at the piano.  I find they get it really pretty quickly. hope this helpfull

[jpianoflorida]

I use a computer program called "piano suite' in my studio..I have it on 3 computers! It is AWESOME! it has games where the student has to play the correct notes and characters on the computer tell them if they are correct. Also you can print tons of music that the students are also able to play thru a midi keyboard connected to the computer.   They can't move on until they get the notes correct! It's the best program I've found and is very user friendly! I have it set up on 2 computers in my waiting room as well as my teaching room.      here's the website.

https://www.adventus.com/products/psp.php

[hyrst]

Thanks.

Yes, I have tried everything with this student - all the possible game and everything I could think of, including all your suggestions.

This morning I ma hoping we finally had a break through.  He turned to me with this very self-satisfeid look, after reading hesitatnly but much better than before, and said, "YOu know, if you watch the music carefully you can remember the notes you are supposed to play and whic hones they are; and if you think about the piano than you know where those notes are!"  It was like the switch had suddenly been turned on.  How many times have I tried to tell him this exactly, in so many different ways!  Maybe it just took him to realise it for himself.   Time will tell how deep this went, but it was pretty exciting and I was jumping up and down telling him "exactly!" and how proud I was. :-)  He defintiely read much better after that.

[jpianoflorida]

EAR TRAINING:

do you have your students try to recognize notes by the sound? if the student is ready I like to have them close their eyes and try to identify the notes they hear!   or also, Can you do this as a teacher/performer?    I have good days when I can to a 100percent accuracy level and will have students test me, it does take concentration!  Some days when my concentration is off, it doesn't always work! lol

[hyrst]

I play this 'game' with my students as well - and I also find there are days I just don't hear the notes.

I use the 'game' in different ways for the age and level of the student, form the first lesson and then every couple of lessons.  Most students, young and older seem to enjoy the challenge.

The simplest version I use is to close their eyes and hear if it is a high or low note, then we add the middle.  Next, we add getting higher or getting lower.  The next step is finding the right note of two notes, that gradually get closer together (I ask, "Is it this one or this one?").  We then move to find the right note in an octave.  Finally, we play hot and cold across the whole piano.  It they don't get it right after a couple of tries, I repeat the example because the notes get blurred in the mind.

I'm often surprised how well most students pick up the right sound.  Although, of course, there are some who like to peek - and I give them a gentle tease about that!  I don't let the mget away with it, but we laugh togeether at it and then I challenge them to realy try - I just make it a little bit easier the next time.

[jpianoflorida]

I mentioned in a previous post that i use "piano suite" in my studio.  Does anyone else have any piano software they use and recommend?   would enjoy discussing it!

[lostinidlewonder]

When we think a student "does not get it", we have to be careful how are we assessing their playing. As experienced pianists we have a concept of what is the ideal way to play a piece. When undeveloped pianists express their music we have to be careful not to be impatient and try to pull them towards the ideal way to play the piece too fast. There are small increments we can make to the slow progressing student so the student will get it eventually.

I learnt that some students progress faster than others, then there are those that progress at a below than average rate. With these students I definately work much harder with them than even my most advanced students! It is a huge challenge to break through their mental and physical challenges at the piano. I have found the solution is not to expect too much from them and allow them to make mistakes but constantly improve their playing very very slowly ensuring the change you ask of them is manageable enough for their learning rate.

I have found that the learning rate does improve as you develop at the piano. Even these slow learners of mine have now become more efficient at their learning and playing, but this usually after a couple of years. A huge amount of stress on my behalf, slow learning students who do not get it take so much effort to get them to finally say eureka! These type of students are the hardest to deal with. We as teachers must learn to be very patient and absolutely unrelenting when we tackle these unique problems.