You could be better but you're not. What's stopping you ?

[m1469]

That is my question.  I have heard a lot of people say that they could be a lot better than they are, and I wonder ...

Why aren't you, then ?  What's stopping you ?

I want to know some of the specifics as to why people decide not to get better.  I suppose there are some psychological things involved as well as sheer time factors.  All the same, I would like you to spell it out for me, if you please  .

Spill your guts  .


m1469

[swim4ever_22]

Why I could be better but I'm not:


I don't which direction to take.
I don't know what criteria I should cover.
I do not have a piano teacher.
I do not have someone to guide me in the direction I should go in order to be the best I can be.
I work too much to be able to prepare material on a weekly basis, but that, thankfully, is changing.
My school schedule is not exactly light.
There are only 24 hours in a day, 8 of which I use to sleep.
School takes up another 8 hours.
You get the idea.

[ted]

I am now very certain of my direction and exactly what I must do. "Better" or "worse", in any general sense, do not concern me because I cannot judge these qualities objectively in the creative sphere, neither is there any point in regretting wasted time in the past or worrying about what might stop me in the future. In the eyes of those who know me I probably seem to have started working very hard but to me it is not work in the sense of struggle. I am happier than ever in my music but not static in it. I do what it seems to me I must do and that's all there is to it. Shiva dances.

[zheer]

Why aren't you, then ?  What's stopping you ?

I want to know some of the specifics as to why people decide not to get better. 
m1469

  Om, most of us have read about the lives of successful pianist, the thing they have in common, is that they started very young,most were from musical family,ie mother or father was a piano teacher.They had the best teachers from the start, they start the careee very young giving concerts at a young age. Since these type of people are very talented and often hard working they study at famous concervatory often with famous teachers,thus having a very good foundation, eventually they are playing in many concerts round the world,thus the need to pratice more and more,since they are payed performers.
        So you see this is a lot different to most people, including me, who had piano lessons at a lockal piano teachers house for a few years as late starter, also since beeing rejected to study music at Uni, the need to practice is less, basically piano is now only a hobby, since i dont play for others. However the only thing that brings me back is the strength of the music.

[ada]

I want to know some of the specifics as to why people decide not to get better.  I suppose there are some psychological things involved as well as sheer time factors.  All the same, I would like you to spell it out for me, if you please  .

Well I don't think anyone "decides" not to get better.

I mean we could say "I'm afraid to let myself be who I can" or "I'm a prisoner of my own self doubt" or "until I free myself from the tyranny of my past I'll never free my musical spirit" or "my partner won't love me if my talents outshine his".

But seriously that's twaddle. It should be relegated to the pop psychology self help shelves of the local bargain basement bookstore where it belongs.

My personal hurdles to improvement are much more mundane.

Time
Lack of a really good instrument
Time
Other priorities/responsibilities/interests
Time


That said, I feel I'm constantly getting "better", even if my progress is slow.

Is it actually possible to either get "worse" or even plateau if you practice regularly? I don't know. You must be going somewhere, even if it's just broadening your rep.

[m1469]

Well I don't think anyone "decides" not to get better.

I think that our lives are made up of choices, and there are always choices that are within our control.  At some point in time, whether it be once altogether or many times throughout a day, a person decides to dedicate themself to one thing over something else, whether the motivation be money, time, fear, love, or whatever else.  I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with this, but I do think it is true; it is simply a fact of life as we know it.  Some of these choices, and by this I mean we are deciding on something, have a direct effect on our piano playing.

I do find it interesting that you picked up on this word.  Anyway, that is why I worded it the way that I did.


m1469

[ada]

there are always choices that are within our control.  At some point in time, whether it be once altogether or many times throughout a day, a person decides to dedicate themselves to one thing over something else, whether the motivation be money, time, or whatever else. 

Yes that word did jump out at me. The question of choice is always interesting. Some people may suggest people are in poverty because they "choose" to be or have a heroin addiction because they "choose to" or are trapped in an abusive relationship because they "choose to". I think all these assumptions are treading on dangerous ground.

But this is getting away from the original topic.

I could "choose" to go home and play the piano right now and you can bet I would like to. But what would the consequences be? I'd miss my deadline, irritate the  hell out of my editor, be seen as unreliable and unprofessional and probably lose my job.

If I lost that particular job I'd have X less dollars next week, which would mean I'd find it hard to pay the rent and feed my children (bring out the violin).

My point is that the concept of choice can be very selfish. If it's all about you, you can choose whatever you want. But your choices can have consequences for other people, can they not? So your choices are effectively curtailed or influenced by how they'll affect  other people. If not, they probably should be, IMHO.

I could "choose" to get better at piano by practising more, but not if it's going to hurt my kids, for example. So my "choice" to remain at my desk instead of fleeing selfishly to my piano isn't so much of a choice as it may appear.

 

[m1469]

So your choices are effectively curtailed or influenced by how they'll affect  other people. If not, they probably should be, IMHO.

I very much agree.

I could "choose" to get better at piano by practising more, but not if it's going to hurt my kids, for example. So my "choice" to remain at my desk instead of fleeing selfishly to my piano isn't so much of a choice as it may appear.

You are right, of course (not that you needed me to say it).  But, I do wish to point out that you are indeed making a choice, it's just that the *right* choice for you is very obvious.  The only reason I bring it up is because I respect it and I believe it's commendable.  Your decision to be unselfish is something that a lot of people have a difficult time making, it seems.  "Society" tends not to give this kind of decision much merit these days, and that's angering to me.

Your responses are very helpful to me.

Thanks,
m1469

[henrah]

I need to Bernhard myself up and rid myself of all my bad habits, but sometimes impatience overules me and I can't help myself.

Also motivation. I find my motivation for practicing is lessoning, and also my mood lately. I've been in a spiral of not doing school work, feeling crappy for not doing it, and not doing it for the next day because I feel crappy about not doing it.

Life's generally pretty rubbish right now, and I think I know the reason why. Though again that issue has its own vicious circle. But every so often I do feel happy when mother nature gives me glimpses or entire paintings of beauty.
Henrah

[leucippus]

My fingers just won't do it.  It's as simple as that.

Take my most well-practiced piece as an example.  It's also about the simple piece you can imagine.

The piece is the 3rd etude of the 12 Köhler studies.   It was one of the first pieces I've learned.  I've been playing it for over a year now.  The whole thing is almost all HS, one hand playing at a time.  And I still don't have anywhere near the control over it that I want.

I'm sure everyone will start screaming "Get a teacher".  But I seriously can't imagine what a teacher would do.  I already know what I want my fingers to do.  My fingers just won't do what my mind is telling them to do.  It’s as simple as that.

Having a teacher tell me to do these things isn't going to help.  I've tried everything, all sorts of different seating position, and arm positions, etc., etc., etc.   I just can't imagine that someone is going to walk in here and tell me to do something just a little bit different and all of a sudden my fingers will start doing precisely what my mind is telling them to do.  If someone could do that, that one lesson would be worth a fortune.  But it isn't realistic to believe that could happen.  What's more likely to be the truth is that my fingers just aren't able to do this.

Surely teachers must run into students who simply can't get that final step to fluency.  I mean, if I play the etude for you, you might say, "That's fine, let move on to something more difficult".   But it's not fine.  I don’t have the control over it that I want to have over it.  What's the point in moving forward if I'm already discovering that I'll never be able to have full control over any piece I ever play?

I mean, if I can't even feel like I have full control over a simple etude that's mostly HS how am I ever going to gain full control over anything that's even more difficult to play?  Ignoring this problem to move forward isn't solving the problem.

I used to just think it was a matter of practice.  But after almost a full year of having played it I think I'm starting to give up on that notion.  I seem to have hit a brick wall with it and I just can't seem to get past a certain level of control which is far from satisfactory for me - Like you say in the title of the thread "I could be better, but I'm not".

I could be a LOT better, but I'm not.  And it seems as though I've hit a brick wall to even making any progress toward getting any better at all.

I'm 57 years old with some dementia problems.  Perhaps It's just a medical problem and there's no hope.  I'm not sure whether to seek out a piano teacher, or just tell my doctor about it.  Maybe I should do both before I finally give up altogether.

[maestoso]

i am the best i should be when i focus on being the best. i mean i have had people tell me i am the best singer, guitarist musician they know, and then i see other people play flawlessly and effortlessly stuff i can't seem to grasp at the moment and i kick myself for not being more motivated and sacrifice everything to be the best(which is an irrelavant statement because no one will ever be the best they will only be better than they were at some point. it's the same as planning for your future which will only be the present when you get there. i know i will be good at piano for my sake and my love of music and i will get better, so nothing can discourage you when accept championship of satisfaction it may not impress any virtuosos but it shouldn't be all about what other people think. true musicians encourage not criticize.

[rimv2]

That is my question.  I have heard a lot of people say that they could be a lot better than they are, and I wonder ...

Why aren't you, then ?  What's stopping you ?

I want to know some of the specifics as to why people decide not to get better.  I suppose there are some psychological things involved as well as sheer time factors.  All the same, I would like you to spell it out for me, if you please  .

Spill your guts  .


m1469

m1469, you could be a millionaire.







Why arent you

[m1469]

m1469, you could be a millionaire.

Yes, actually, you are right  .

Why arent you

Maybe I am  . 


Okay, but really, I am not.  It's only because I have not won the lottery yet  (actually, I don't play).   I think I could be a millionaire if I chose that specifically.  I have had options of being very rich monitarily, I have the option now, and I probably will continue to have this option throughout my life (I think anybody does, to an extent). 

But, I have felt all along that my pianistic/musical/aritstic/love endeavors would suffer if I were to persue these particular options, and therefore my "satisfaction" in life would as well.  I am simply not willing to sacrifice those things merely for money because my life wouldn't be worth living without them.  And then what ?  Maybe some day I will end up being one, but that is not my sole desire in life. 


m1469

[donjuan]

I dont have very much time to practice, now that I am in Pharmacy at university.  Also, as soon as I was admitted into the program, how well I can play the piano doesnt seem to matter so much -->I'm done thinking about doing it as a career, so now it's just a fun thing I do to procrastinate studying..

Besides, I've realized that music is isolating.. Back when I was really into classical piano, say 2 years ago, I pretty much lived like a recluse from society (other than forum posting).  Now, I realize there is so much more to life.. like alcohol, rock music, chocolate, and awesome movies--> like A Clockwork Orange 

slowing my musical progression made me realize that  in life, nothing really matters, and that's the only thing making it funfunfun

[timothy42b]

I don't think we decide not to get better in any conscious sense.

Certainly is a red flag word though, isn't it?

Instead, I think we carefully avoid deciding at all, and that's half of why we aren't better.  Those of us who do get better, except for the occasional Mozart, are those who did consciously decide. 

I believe Chang, Bernhard, and others are correct in that our natural intuitive methods for learning are inefficient, counterproductive, and wrong.  Therefore if we don't "decide" to be good but just muddle through, it is unlikely to happen.  Even if we do decide to put in the effort, it has to be intelligent effort, and for that you need good external information. 

Time is a factor, certainly.  Most of us could organize our day rigorously and have plenty of time to practice, work out, learn Sanskrit, date supermodels, and raise a family in a spotless house.  However, the degree of organization that would be required is in itself aversive.  Hee, hee. 

Even with practice, the effective methods are not as much fun as stumbling through.  I see that when I sit down to practice.  Last night I was really tired after work, and have some stuff for church that needs to be ready.  The best use of my time would have been to master four measures, or maybe two or one and go to bed.  But i didn't feel like doing that, didn't want to force myself to concentrate that hard. 

[kilini]

1) I started piano when I was 13, not 3.
2) I started with a really crappy teacher.
3) The only factor that I can really change, however, is my laziness. I COULD practice 3 hours a day and read and apply all the methods in Chang's book. But I don't. I take my piano ability for granted. That needs to change.

[aaron_ginn]

Time, or more precisely, a lack thereof...

I wrote an essay recently on learning to play the piano concerning time.  You can read it at the following site if you're interested:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/ginn3.html

[m1469]

I don't think we decide not to get better in any conscious sense.

Certainly is a red flag word though, isn't it?

Instead, I think we carefully avoid deciding at all, and that's half of why we aren't better.  Those of us who do get better, except for the occasional Mozart, are those who did consciously decide. 

I suppose there is an element of people not knowing they can decide this; they feel powerless in this matter after an extent.  So, they don't decide it.  As though getting better, after some point, is reserved for a certain type of person that they feel they probably are not. 

Though improvement is not, of course, merely a matter of personal decision and the effort to match --I don't think.


m1469


ps-  thanks for the essay, aaron, I will have a looky .

[maestoso]

Time, or more precisely, a lack thereof...

I wrote an essay recently on learning to play the piano concerning time.  You can read it at the following site if you're interested:

I read your essay pretty good! it must be a guitar thing that we want to play piano. i play classical pretty good and usually have played metal and hard rock. i find as you did that the added element of a bassline is so much more appeasing than a slight walking bass although tremolo on a classical is a sick technique. anyway back to the main point i love playing guitar any style  is fun, but piano is so much more of a beatiful instrument i mean playing the first few bars of chopins nocturne 9 it just takes my breath away. as we are "older beginners" (i'm 33) it seems are busy lives just take any time we need to get "good" but being that we are musicians time stops, and even a few minutes is beneficial.

[aaron_ginn]

I read your essay pretty good! it must be a guitar thing that we want to play piano. i play classical pretty good and usually have played metal and hard rock. i find as you did that the added element of a bassline is so much more appeasing than a slight walking bass although tremolo on a classical is a sick technique. anyway back to the main point i love playing guitar any style  is fun, but piano is so much more of a beatiful instrument i mean playing the first few bars of chopins nocturne 9 it just takes my breath away. as we are "older beginners" (i'm 33) it seems are busy lives just take any time we need to get "good" but being that we are musicians time stops, and even a few minutes is beneficial.

maestoso,

Thanks for the response.  I'm solely an acoustic guitar player, I've never done electric, though in my youth I was a metal head (particularly very early Metallica).  I don't even listen to rock anymore.  I do play in our worship band at church from time to time but I mainly play folk fingerstyle.  Here's a small sample I recorded recently:

https://theginnfamily.net/red_white_blue_rag.mp3

This style requires both hands working together much like playing the piano.  I suppose that's why I'm progressing fairly well in my piano playing.

As much as I love guitar, I'm hardly playing it anymore.  Piano is my new mistress!

[counterpoint]

That is my question.  I have heard a lot of people say that they could be a lot better than they are, and I wonder ...

Why aren't you, then ?  What's stopping you ?

Wow, great question!

I'm playing piano for about 40 years now.   

I was so ambitous and worked so hard with my teachers for many years, but I can't play Chopin Etudes or Ravels Gaspard de la nuit to my full content.

So, what's the reason?

My teachers told me many silly things like:

"You have to practise with metronome much more!"
"Your finger muscles are too weak" (That's a really interesting point, ask Bernhard  )
"Your fingers have to move more!"
"You have to obey the fingering which is printed in the score" (Oh, oh, Henle fingerings, use them and you know, how life will be in hell     )
"Don't use pedal when playing Bach and Mozart!"
"Never play really loud, even if there is a fortissimo in the score!"

and so on    and so on

I believed, what my teachers told me. That was my fatal fault!

If you get clearer and clearer, that you played totally wrong all the years, it's very hard, to turn the direction and play the opposite way as it's branded into your brain. It may be possible, but perhaps life's too short.

I'm so jealous about you lucky guys, who have teachers and mentors, who really know, how to make music on the piano, without being tortured or torture yourself.

[zheer]

I'm playing piano for about 40 years now.   

  I bet you are 44 years old.

[counterpoint]

  I bet you are 44 years old.

hmm, no, you could add some extra years 

[zheer]

My teachers told me many silly things like:

  Thats not that silly, this is , i was once told to train my fingers away from the piano, obviously i cant demonstrate, but it's a little like a finger side kick.

[rafant]

-I can't sightread
-Chords' notes don't sound together
-Only 2 hours daily to play, at night, but often I feel too much sleepy.

Thank's m1469, great question.

[nyquist]

That is my question.  I have heard a lot of people say that they could be a lot better than they are, and I wonder ...

Why aren't you, then ?  What's stopping you ?

...
m1469

I spend too much time online reading pianoforum.

nyquist

[Bob]

Lack of energy.

Having other things creep in and steal my time and attention.

I don't look forward to fighting the same problems -- the ones that are always there, the things that are confusing, the things that will take years to overcome.

[penguinlover]

I agree with Bob.  Lack of energy after a day at work.  Lack of practice time.  Piano is right next to the TV that hubby watches all the time!  Lack of a teacher.  Lack of money for teacher.  Old age..............sigh

[berrt]

Lack of energy after a day at work.  Lack of practice time.  Piano is right next to the TV that hubby watches all the time!  Lack of a teacher.  Lack of money for teacher.  Old age..............sigh

Same for me, for some time. Now i cut down other activities - no tv (not even news, radio in the car is sufficient), no literature etc.. only tennis and piano - feels good!

B.

[teresa_b]

My fingers just won't do it.  It's as simple as that.

But I seriously can't imagine what a teacher would do.  I already know what I want my fingers to do.  My fingers just won't do what my mind is telling them to do.  It’s as simple as that.

I mean, if I can't even feel like I have full control over a simple etude that's mostly HS how am I ever going to gain full control over anything that's even more difficult to play?  Ignoring this problem to move forward isn't solving the problem.

I could be a LOT better, but I'm not.  And it seems as though I've hit a brick wall to even making any progress toward getting any better at all.

I'm 57 years old with some dementia problems.  Perhaps It's just a medical problem and there's no hope.  I'm not sure whether to seek out a piano teacher, or just tell my doctor about it.  Maybe I should do both before I finally give up altogether.

Leucippus, 

I happened on your post, and your comments above touched me. 
I think you may be wrong.  I don't know what you mean by "dementia problems" but you write well.  If you have memory problems or learning problems, that doesn't mean you can't play the piano at all.  (I am 52 years old, and I cannot memorize with confidence, but I play with score just fine.)

Here are some ideas:

Are you choosing pieces that are too difficult?  The brick wall will never come down unless you begin with less frustrating material.   

Are you being too self-critical?  A few mistakes or imperfections don't mean you can't play.  So what if it isn't exactly perfect?  It can still be beautiful.

Your comment about not being able to imagine what a teacher would do is telling.  If you can't imagine it, you don't know it!  TRY a teacher, if you can afford one.  If you don't like him/her, try another one.  You may be surprised.  I don't go to my teacher regularly, but go for coaching sometimes, and she hears things I have not heard--and often gives me great advice!  I have changed the whole feeling of a piece or passage by thinking a certain way.

You may have a disability causing your fingers not to be as coordinated as they might be (?) --A teacher might be able to help you choose some things to practice that would directly address these issues.  And if you are seriously worried about an organic brain problem, please see a neurologist if you haven't already done so.

DON'T give up!  And have fun with the piano!
Teresa

[gyzzzmo]

I dont have the discipline/teacher to let me really FINISH a piece.

[freakofnature]

Lack of energy.

Having other things creep in and steal my time and attention.

I don't look forward to fighting the same problems -- the ones that are always there, the things that are confusing, the things that will take years to overcome.

Totally agreed - these are my main problems. Additionally:

- I feel frustrated over learning a piece to a status where it sounds really good and then having forgotten that thing some months later. I so would like to just sit at the piano and play things I played some months or years ago, but I simply can't as I've forgotten all the notes... (for example I've learned the Mendelssohn's SSW 30/6 two times already - last time about a year ago for a student recital - but nowadays after the intro my mind goes totally blank). It's frustrating to learn a piece when I know, that I will have forgotten the whole thing some months later when I don't play it regularly (and after a while of playing something I just get sick of the piece - so playing it on a daily basis isn't a cure for that, either).

- I'm not really sure what to do with it. Unfortunately I'm living kind of isolated, don't have that many friends (I've never been a very social person and have a very hard time making friends) and so I'm mainly playing for myself - and it's sometimes very hard to motivate myself to learn a piece just to play it for me. I guess it would be much more rewarding to play for some people that I like... I feel like I'm getting better in social situations lately, so there's hope that this problem will be solved in the future...

[phdezra]

Things stopping me from getting better:
1) Time to practice. (Work, sleep, young kids at home)

Things not stopping me:
1) I have a wonderful teacher (he is on the faculty at Julliard and he actually knows what he is talking about!)
2) I have a very good digital piano... while it is not a Steinway baby grand, it is puh-lenty until I get significantly better (or at least until I can play Mozart's Fantasia in D-minor from memory).