Ok, Ive learned the damm thing, now how do I polish it up?

[lisztisforkids]

At the stage were I can play my repertoire, but how do I make it sound interesting, and well crafted in general?

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

By polishing it up, do you mean still having to overcome certain minute technical details, or music itself? If its the latter, then only imagination can breath life into music. Whether imitating the sound of certain instruments, or something completely new, fantasy is the key to making it sing. Don't ask the forum for advice, ask yourself.

[rc]

Here's a little trick for using your imagination to inspire your interpretations:  Find a place you can sit down without distraction, spend a few minutes clearing your head (breath meditation) and play through the piece in your head.  Sound only, since you can already play the notes.  Try hearing it as different instruments, as DebussySymbolism said, this is where it's useful to hear non-piano music by the same composer...  Conduct your imaginary music.

Try and capture the atmosphere/mood of it, think of things this mood reminds you of in your life.  That's what people respond to.

When you have a rich interpretation in your head, you have something to guide your playing at the piano.

Having an understanding of the aesthetic of the piece is also helpful, the structure, to be able to know how all the pieces come together to make the whole.

Something else I've noticed, once I have a good idea of what I'd like the piece to be, I become incredibly picky over the tiniest nuances...  Spending a long time trying to perfect a particular turn, or getting an arcing decrescendo just right - not having it end too softly.

[leucippus]

At the stage were I can play my repertoire, but how do I make it sound interesting, and well crafted in general?

I've learned some limited repertoire myself, and unfortunately after I learned it I realized that I'll never be able to polish it.  I just don't physically have the ability to play it the way I want it to sound.  It's not a matter of more practice or anything like that.  My fingers just won't do what my mind wants them to do.  I've come to a dead end unfortunately.  I'll just never be able to play the piano.  My fingers just won't do it. 

[rc]

I've learned some limited repertoire myself, and unfortunately after I learned it I realized that I'll never be able to polish it.  I just don't physically have the ability to play it the way I want it to sound.  It's not a matter of more practice or anything like that.  My fingers just won't do what my mind wants them to do.  I've come to a dead end unfortunately.  I'll just never be able to play the piano.  My fingers just won't do it. 

Persist man!!

It may take time, but know that you can if you persist.

I find that when my fingers are misbehaving it's usually due to some sort of mental tension...  I'm thinking about it the wrong way, too mechanical and effort laden.  The mind is trying too hard, not letting it flow.  Try watching one hand while listening to the other.  Try watching neither but imagining one or the other.

Just some quick ideas really, but if you believe what you just wrote then you're right and you will never learn piano...  If you want to learn piano you must believe that you can, and so you must persist.

[imapnotchr]

Leucippus and Liztisforkids - find yourselves a good teacher!  You'll be shocked at what you will learn!  And with a little time, you will be improving and playing the way you want to play!  ask me how I know!

[leucippus]

ask me how I know!

I'd rather ask you how old you are if that would be alright. 

[leucippus]

Leucippus and Liztisforkids - find yourselves a good teacher! 

I just want to add that I hear this a lot.  But a teacher isn't a cure-all.  To believe so would be to claim that every student has the potential to become an exceptionally talented pianist.   Or to put it another way, it would be the same as claiming that there is no such thing as "exceptional talent".

I do plan on seeking out a teacher for this, but to be quite honest about I don't have unrealistic expectations.  If the teacher can help me with this I will be very pleasantly surprised.  With the emphasis on "surprised".

Moreover, there is no doubt at all in my mind that I don't need a "music teacher" for this.  I need a teacher of technical virtuosity.  Because a music teacher can only tell me what it's supposed to sound like.  But I already know what it's supposed to sound like.  I need someone to teach me how to technically make my fingers move correctly.  Because THAT is the problem I'm having.

[ramseytheii]

At the stage were I can play my repertoire, but how do I make it sound interesting, and well crafted in general?

First you have to know how you want it to sound, and what "interesting" sounds like, before you can get to the "making" and "crafting."  I recommend listening to recordings of vastly different interpretations, and also reading imaginative literature.  You're asking a really general question so you are likely to get really general answers. 

But I have to say, from the start, from the moment of conception as we say in Amerika, you should have been practicing the piece the way it sounds most interesting, and you should have been studying and discovering the form and craftmanship along the way.  Are you telling us that you play all these pieces in your repertoire as a blank slate, in monotone, with no varying rhythm?  I highly doubt it, but you sort of imply it.  Since I do doubt it, I would therefore advsie you to build on your strengths, find the place that you know yourself to play most interestingly, and apply your approach there to other passages.  Then you will also begin to be able to link the passages together.

Wagner said his whole success as a musician came from the "art of transition."  This is what all performers must study as well, the transition in all things, from the loud to the soft, the fast to the slow, the slow to the fast, the exposition to the development, the development to the recapitulation, the first theme to the second theme, the exposition to the episode, et cetera, on to infinity, everything is a constant transition.  This is what makes music alive and interesting.

I remember as a youngster playing the Schubert c# minor Musical Moment, and sort of playing it all on the surface, until the very end, where I was really confident in my ability to make it into something lovely, captivating and movnig.  My teacher used to say, "Why don't you play the whole piece like that?"  And I couldn't answer outside, but inside I thought, "The whole piece isn't like that."  In other words, only one passage was really striking me, and that is the way I made the piece sound.

But the more I grew and thought about that, the more I realized not only how wrong I was, but how I was able to do so much more.  After all, if I played that passage by itself, it would never be as moving as if I ended the whole piece with it, even if I played the rest of the piece mechanically and badly.  So therefore there must be something worth playing beautifully in the pages of music preceding this passage.  So from my strengths I built the piece up, working backwards basically, always asking myself, how do I get here?  I started at the end, and said, how did it come to this?  This is when I realized the art of transition, and what it really means.  Then I was able to find beauty in all the measures of this piece, and bring it out.

Walter Ramsey

[pianowelsh]

I know whay your saying Leucippus! I used to have a very similar problem. Whilst I didnt have a teacher who was perfect - not on of them and I had 5 main ones post grade 8. I did have some who did actually help me realise things in terms of technique which have given greater freedom to my interpretation.  Now I have to say at the advanced levels there arent so many teachers who want to do that...or even can do that! Most actually dont teach - they coach performances..so if you are struggling with technical issues often you will continue to struggle..you'll just get more agro because you have someone telling you every week - you still cant to this bit etc!!! I know I went through it and it is intensely irritating....BUT if you get a good TEACHER,, indeed the right teacher for you..who will really take seriously helping you with technical control of the instrument you will fly!  Too many students when they have  consultation lessons with teachers think oh this is it now ive committed myself, if they say they'll take me on then that's it Im with them till I quit! BUT BUT BUT.. this isnt and should never be the case. Have minimum of three teachers who you have checked out (ask their students how they teach,,read reviews of them if possible, even read their books if they have published) then book a lesson and tell them where your at and the frustrations your feeling and that this is a specific issue with you...if they go 'oh well thats very nice leuppy But I actually think you should be studying this (because thats what my phd is in)' then tell them thanks but no thanks - dosent matter how famous they are..if there not going to teach YOU then your wasting your time and money. What you want is someone who will be more of a mentor and who will guide you through the areas your struggling on not someone who will give you a brilliant discourse on something which you either already do pretty well or is almost totally irrelevant to your musical interests.  AUDITION your teacher not the other way around!! Your the one paying!!!!

[netzow]

I refer to two quotes.

"Don't practice until you can play it with out mistakes, practice until you can't make any mistakes"

"You know the piece now make it your own"

[rc]

leucippus, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder over teachers...  Just as Pianowelsh says, find the right teacher for you, be specific and direct about what you're looking for before you start any lessons and save some headaches. 

Of course a teacher isn't a cure all, a teacher must be good and equally important is for the student to be good (I don't mean that the student can already play, but simply is dedicated and willing to put in the effort)...  Given that, I do believe that any student can become exceptionally talented.  But we've been down this road already.

Back to the fingers.  I don't understand how you could not be able to figure out the physical movements when you know what sound you're after.  What exactly is the block?  Putting hands together?  Shifting hand positions?

I also have a slight suspicion you may suffer from 'intellectitis' - too much thinking and analysing and not enough trial and error.  When it comes to something like piano technique, 10 minutes of experimenting at the keyboard is worth more than 10 hours of reading about it.

[rc]

ok, I found the answer to my question here https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,21308.msg234473.html#msg234473

So now my guess is it may be a physical thing, or maybe sticking with the same piece for too long...  When I've been practicing a piece for too long, at some point I'm no longer adding anything to it, but just rehearsing it in exactly the same manner as I did the day/week/month before.  In that case I shelf the piece until I forget how I used to play it, then it's like new again and I'm able to learn it with new insight.

It's hard to say, but there's got to be a way to beat your block.

[imapnotchr]

Leucippus -

I am in my early 50's.  I have a music degree but put my career on hold while raising my family.  I resumed piano lessons two years ago after a 25+ year break.  I also resumed flute lessons a few years ago, too.  I spent a few years before that practicing both instruments on my own and getting no where, musically.  Meanwhile I searched all over to find teachers who knew how to teach and how to teach the technical aspects of playing musically.  Teachers like these are difficult to find.  I did a lot of asking around!  The difference in my playing on both instruments is unbelieveable.