Why is cannabis illegal?

[henrah]

Hey Henrah, Are you sure the buzz from pot isn't giving you a false sense of reality?

I knew a guitar player once that said he plays much better when bombed out from booze. I heard him once when he was bombed. It was embarrassingly poor playing. He thought it was a great performance though.

In my younger days when I played out in a bar band, after the customers had a few drinks they thought we were great. Hmm…

I will say alcohol does loosen up one’s inhibitions – which could be a dangerous thing.

John

I didn't say I played better, I said that I simply enjoy playing more when I'm stoned, and there are other things too that I enjoy doing whilst stoned. There are also many things I enjoy doing sober! I used to think that I could only have a fun evening if I was stoned, but that's definately not the case, and I'm glad that I've realised that.

I think that because alcohol loosens up one's inhibitions, fights and confrontations are more likely, and also why things are said that shouldn't be said. I saw a great cliche video of an office woman saying (quite drunk) how much she hated her boss, and he was standing right behind her - classic! She then tried to fob it off, but ended up just insulting him even more lol

I abstain from even alcohol. I never tried anything. But I think drugs should be legal. Then the government should discorage it. Just as with alcohol and tabacco.

As for the currect system in practice; those people who are willing to produce cannabis will make a lot of money because it is illegal. So criminal organisations will be able to gain money. And those people that want to start a coffee shop, normal people, will have to pay criminals. So basically because all drug money still goes largely to criminals nothing has been solved.

I predict it will be totally legal within a few years.

That is definately quite perplexing, how a government can allow illegal activity for a legal product. When will Holland start producing their weed federally? I hope your prediction is correct Prometheus.
Henrah

[henrah]

https://www.regulatemarijuana.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49

There's a great quote from there: "You smoke a joint and you're likely to kill your brother." Hahaha, how ludacrous is that?

Can anyone confirm or deny the facts presented in that topic? Are those the real reasons why marijuana is illegal now?
Henrah

[ada]

I've just skimmed through this thread but there's one point that I don't think has been brought up and that is that pot can trigger psychosis in SOME people with a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia.

Smoking pot also increases your risk of developing lung and other cancers of the mouth and throat in later life. This is the only personal concern I have.

Besides that it is a pretty benign drug and nowhere near as destructive and dangerous and alcohol or tobacco, but that's pretty much universally acknowledged.

Many people of all ages and from all walks of life smoke pot regularly for many years without any impact on their professional or personal lives as a social, recreational and "winding down at the end of the day" activity.

THC also has huge therapeutic potential, particularly as a palliative agent, which unfortunately isn't being properly explored because of ignorance, prejudice and dumb laws.

Generally smoking marijuana won't make you violent like alcohol, paranoid like amphetamines, addicted like smack or depressed like ecstasy. OTOH, they don't call it dope cos it makes you smart.

Laws banning cannabis are outdated, out of touch with reality, arbitrary and illogical. But they are are there, and for that reason it's very hard to get legislative change.

And can I just respond to the poster who said we should respect laws because they are there. We all know the people of Germany respected and abided by the laws set by Hitler, and look what happened.

Just because a law is there doesn't mean it's right.

[henrah]

Smoking pot also increases your risk of developing lung and other cancers of the mouth and throat in later life. This is the only personal concern I have.

A large study has actually denied any claim that marijuana has an association with lung cancer. Article on the study can be found here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html

But yes, sadly it does affect those with a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia, and other mental illnesses. That's why I think that if pot were legal, there should be a card/ID system in place where you have to be tested for these genetic predispositions and if you test clear, you can be given a 'pot card' which would be shown to pot retailers (or wherever the pot is obtained) to allow them to sell it to you. You can't get a card if you have these genetic predispositions, therefore you can't buy any weed legally, and therefore it takes away the responsibility of the government for those that use marijuana and might come to ill effect of it due to mental illnesses.

Have any of you checked out Question 7, a proposal in Nevada? www.regulatemarijuana.org if you want to find out more about it. On the home page of the site it has a 90second flash ad about it, and it's quite informative.
Henrah

[gruffalo]

I saw a great cliche video of an office woman saying (quite drunk) how much she hated her boss, and he was standing right behind her - classic! She then tried to fob it off, but ended up just insulting him even more lol

i remember seeing that video. it was hilarious.

[henrah]

I think I've come to the point that if goverments continue to keep marijuana illegal, they are effectively (directly or indirectly) funding crime. Through regulation and tax, they can take marijuana off the black market and stop dealers from making money out of it, aslong as they price it at a competing price (including tax) to the street price. Obviously a black market for marijuana will still exist if you can get it far cheaper and better quality through an illegal dealer, so they need to make sure that they undercut the dealers in both price and quality, or atleast match them.

[timothy42b]

perhaps for addicts - one drug leads to another.  and, as with pregnant moms who deliver crack babies - people don't often think of the impact it will have on future generations until the damage is done.  the deformities and withdrawl symptoms that babies have to suffer because of the parents is kinda selfish, imo.

Crack babies are a myth.  The blood brain barrier prevents them from getting any drug.  If you control for poor nutrition and lack of prenatal care, the syndrome disappears - it's caused by unhealthy mothers, not the drug.

Heroin overdoses are largely a myth as well.  People DO die with a needle in their arm, but in most cases it is not possible they got anywhere near enough drug to kill them.  There's some kind of weird anaphylactic reaction that hasn't been studied, or hadn't last time I looked. 

[elspeth]

The reason cannabis is illegal but alcohol and tobacco aren't is largely a matter of history. Before all the negatives were known alcohol and tobacco had already become serious industries and were therefore practically impossible to outright ban. Cannabis has of course also been around a long time but has never been commercialised to the same degree. As with anything else, look at where the money is and you'll see who makes the rules.

[lisztisforkids]

Crack babies are a myth. The blood brain barrier prevents them from getting any drug. If you control for poor nutrition and lack of prenatal care, the syndrome disappears - it's caused by unhealthy mothers, not the drug.

  Ofcourse, we all now how healthy crack is for you... Umm, ever heard of Alchoal Fetal syndrome? Yeah, well crack babies do exist, havent you ever heard of babies addicted to meth?

The reason cannabis is illegal but alcohol and tobacco aren't is largely a matter of history. Before all the negatives were known alcohol and tobacco had already become serious industries and were therefore practically impossible to outright ban. Cannabis has of course also been around a long time but has never been commercialised to the same degree. As with anything else, look at where the money is and you'll see who makes the rules.

   

  The reason Cannabis is illegal and alchohol is not is a social factor. Society says it is ok for people to drink, but not to smoke pot. And as people increasingly view smoking as something bad its becoming less and less the norm to smoke.

[prometheus]

Ofcourse, we all now how healthy crack is for you... Umm, ever heard of Alchoal Fetal syndrome? Yeah, well crack babies do exist, havent you ever heard of babies addicted to meth?

There has been research that supports this claim. Actually, I think that research must be his source. Sure, there is also research that suggests that it does have bad effects.

The problem with these research is that you do research on population groups for a long period of time. That kinds of research often doesn't generate good data.

Also, it is well known politicians hijacked the term 'crack babies'. No research supports they ideas some of these people suggested.

As for alcohol and meth. That's something else. If one substance has an effect then that does not say another also has effect.

[_____]

A lot of what's been said has been very interesting so far.

What I don't like are the claims being made that stoned people are less dangerous than drunk people behind the wheel of a car, walking down a dark alley etc etc. One night out a while back saw two stoned men pinning me up against a wall waving a knife in front of my face. The worst I've had from public drunks is incoherent abuse. Not to say either is better of worse than the other - just food for thought.
That said, I think the problem is with the users rather than the drugs themselves - I've known degenerate stoners and weekly binge drinkers that were equally as hopeless as each other.

I agree with points being made that alcohol is often enjoyed for the taste rather than for the effect it gives, while anything illicit is used simply for the high. This, to me, says a lot about the character of the users in question.

Where I live (Melbourne, Australia), a majority of all of the organised crime is drug based. Decriminalising anything would be good step towards eliminating this, lest we continue to hear about the gangland wars that have been running for the past how many years. The lesser known, petty criminals (from what I've seen/experienced) make their money primarily from smaller drug deals. Amphetamines and cannabis. Legalising these drugs would make our streets a hell of a lot safer.

A majority of young people buy their stuff off the street, which doesn't help anyone - we've all heard the stories about the 'extras' that go into street drugs - so in an ideal world, everything would be regulated and legitimately distributed. But I simply don't see this happening.
So what our schools need to be doing (rather than perpetuating this hardcore evil view on drugs) is educating people on drug responsibility, all the effects that stem from this or that drug, and what to do to minimise danger. Mindlessly repeating DRUGS ARE BAD STAY AWAY is only going to create more and more intrigue.

This was all a bit random, hope it made sense.



Off the record - there are many other and much more rewarding ways to get in touch with music than to simply take drugs.

[henrah]

Off the record - there are many other and much more rewarding ways to get in touch with music than to simply take drugs.

Of course! Like meeting idols and favourite interpreters and finding out stuff you really didn't know before, that video of Stephen Hough being a great example.

I agree with points being made that alcohol is often enjoyed for the taste rather than for the effect it gives, while anything illicit is used simply for the high. This, to me, says a lot about the character of the users in question.

I disagree. The situation with alcohol regarding those that enjoy the taste (like at wine tasters) and those that drink it to get drunk is exactly the same with cannabis, but I agree with you about other hard drugs. I doubt you'd find a heroin addict connoisseur .

The thing about cannabis is that there are many connoisseurs who are always looking for different tasting and different smelling strains, and many smoke marijuana because it tastes nice. The high is simply a result they don't mind, much like with wine testers that don't spit it out after tasting it. I think of myself as a little bit of a connoisseur. I once bought some that gave me a headache and made me quite nauseous every time I smoked it (which I think was because it wasn't cured or flushed properly, a step that many dealers miss out simply because it takes time and they need a quick sale), and I've been cautious ever since.

But I do agree with you on the character of the users who simply use it to get high. I usually differentiate between those that smoke weed to get high and those that smoke it for taste and other reasons by the way they smoke it. There are those that smoke it through a bong or pipe and there are those that smoke it through joints and vaporisers. Those that smoke it through joints are (from my experience, where rolling is an art form) more keen on the joint itself than what's inside it. Sometimes I even see these people (including myself) rolling joints without any weed inside, just to practise the skill and discover new methods and techniques. These characters are often also users of vaporisers, as they care about the damaging effects of cannabis and like to reduce them as much as possible. Then there are those that smoke it through bongs and pipes exclusively: these people are the people that only smoke weed to get high; and as that's their primary motive, they use bongs and pipes because it's quicker and doesn't require excess materials like making joints does (tobacco, skins, roach etc).

As I said before, these people are the type that will most likely do the same with other drugs, and the kind that can sometimes discredit marijuana. I myself enjoy the act of rolling so much that sometimes I think about not smoking it after rolling it, and I sometimes take the insides out and do it again! Last night, whilst at a friends finishing off the remainder of some that I had before school started, I had the idea to rip off the sticky gum part of these strawberry flavour skins I had and twist it around the joint which was rolled with plain skins. The result was a joint with a strawberry pattern twirled around the edge, and which also tasted of strawberries every so often.

One night out a while back saw two stoned men pinning me up against a wall waving a knife in front of my face.

Oh my god! What happened? Did they mug you? Did they cut you or anything with the knife??? My god, I've never heard a stoned person go that far! But I'm glad you realise that it's the user and not the drug. Still, what a frightening ordeal!

The reason Cannabis is illegal and alchohol is not is a social factor. Society says it is ok for people to drink, but not to smoke pot. And as people increasingly view smoking as something bad its becoming less and less the norm to smoke.

I think that's due to the sheer amount of lies we've been fed about cannabis, and a topic I linked to earlier shows this. It was about this man billing for cannabis to be criminalised, and his reasons were wholly untrue. One of them was: "You smoke a joint and you're likely to kill your brother." Back then, this would be taken as gospel truth; but nowadays, thankfully, we have many studies being undertaken that are finally proving the real facts about cannabis.
Henrah

[pianistimo]

henrah, this is your music on pot.  this is your photography on pot.  too bad it is so good.  we cannot argue with you on that.  but, your driving.  henry, you are driving 10 mph.

[prometheus]

What about people that are against the use of drugs but do enjoy art that was produced using these drugs?

[henrah]

What about people that are against the use of drugs but do enjoy art that was produced using these drugs?

Hm, that's a tough question. Do you think the majority know that the art was created whilst on drugs? And if they don't, do you think the stubborn-most of them would change their minds in an instance once they knew? That's what I question.

Sorry to dissapoint you pianistimo, but this is not my music or photography on pot. But that depends on what your definition of 'being on pot' is. If it's having it in your bloodstream, then yes I would've been 'on pot' during those times because it stays in your blood for 6months I've heard. Other than that, I was sober at those times
Lucky for you pianistimo, your driving speed comment was actually true for the most part of today... damned traffic But other than today, your comment does not hold true, sorry to say
Henrah

[_____]

Oh my god! What happened? Did they mug you? Did they cut you or anything with the knife??? My god, I've never heard a stoned person go that far! But I'm glad you realise that it's the user and not the drug. Still, what a frightening ordeal!

Yeah it wasn't much fun, but I'm still in one piece.

I disagree. The situation with alcohol regarding those that enjoy the taste (like at wine tasters) and those that drink it to get drunk is exactly the same with cannabis, but I agree with you about other hard drugs. I doubt you'd find a heroin addict connoisseur .

What about those that enjoy better cut, higher quality cocaine?

I guess if you spend enough time doing anything you'll be able to filter out the good from the bad.

[henrah]

What about those that enjoy better cut, higher quality cocaine?

Can you get different cocaines, or is it just the same stuff always but cut differently or more concentrated? If there were more 'strains' of cocaine, then yes there could be a connoisseur of cocaine. But there's a difference between wanting better quality and seeking out different strains. With alcohol and cannabis, there are many, many varieties to choose from; but with other hard drugs I don't think this is the case. This is why I feel cannabis should be treated equally to alcohol: you'll get those that look for longer brewed/grown varieties, those that drink/smoke it just to get drunk/high, and those that are boozers/stoners that drink/smoke it every day and find it hard to go back to normality.
Henrah

[_____]

Australian cocaine and South American cocaine are a world apart; both tend to have somewhat different effects.

But I do agree with pretty much everything you're saying, so I'm going to stop arguing with you

[henrah]

Australian cocaine and South American cocaine are a world apart; both tend to have somewhat different effects.

Do you happen to know what differences there are in the effects? No judgement on whether you've taken it or not of course

But I do agree with pretty much everything you're saying, so I'm going to stop arguing with you

Aw, no fun! Mind if I disagree with everything I've said just for cause to argue?

I wonder what the outcome will be of Question 7 in Nevada and what Jack Herer proposes in California. Maybe America will be the first country to fully regulate and tax marijuana, who knows...

[_____]

Do you happen to know what differences there are in the effects? No judgement on whether you've taken it or not of course

From my experience - that from Australia produced a shorter buzz as well as a longer and more intense downtime; a much much less enjoyable experience. The whole time I felt light headed and as if I were going to pass out.

Since then, the urge to take anything else disgusts me completely, bar alcohol and the occasional cigar.

[henrah]

Supposedly - according to my godfather, who has experienced many different things - real cocaine is yellow, not white. What colour was the cocaine you tried?

I've heard that they've breeded a strain of cannabis that doesn't give any paranoia whatsoever in the user. That could be a good thing, but very well could also be a bad thing. I mean, if it causes you to smoke outside a police station (an extremely stupid thing to do, but nonetheless could occur), then paranoia is useful to a certain extent.

[_____]

White. I've never heard of yellow cocaine before...

[henrah]

Then I guess all cocaine nowadays isn't pure.

So I guess to sum up this topic, cannabis is illegal because - from my point of view - it has been treated with nothing but disrespect; and as studies are finally disproving lies about cannabis, I think this will change in the near future.

From now on, anytime I meet someone who is strongly for cannabis staying illegal, I'll say to them: "Keeping it illegal is effectively - either directly or indirectly - funding drug crime, gang and other criminal activity of all sorts." And I think that in return they'd probably say "Well you only want it legalised so you can smoke it!" and in return to that I'd say: "I can smoke it regardless of it's legal status. Legalising, regulating and taxing it doesn't change the amount it's smoked by much, it simply takes away the possibility for dealers to make money out of it, and stops them from selling to little *insert name here*."

Heh, I really wish I could meet a stubborn politician just so I can say that
Henrah

[timothy42b]

One could argue that making drugs legal would reduce the profit to be made, therefore greatly reducing crime.  This is probably true, but unlikely to happen.

In the US at least, a major sourcelaw enforcement funds is confiscation of property related to drug use.  They don't even have to convict, they just take.  Drug dealers see this as overhead or possibly even indirect bribes.  Because of this, both law enforcement and drug dealers have a strong motive to fight any idea of legalization.

[wishful thinker]

I haven't had time yet to read all this thread, but there is very well established research that suggests that persistent use of cannabis greatly increases the prevalence of severe mental health issues, such as schizophrenia

https://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html

[prometheus]

Reading books increases the chance of getting depression. I saw adds with with cannabis-schizophrenia link. I never saw them with books-depression.

[timothy42b]

I haven't had time yet to read all this thread, but there is very well established research that suggests that persistent use of cannabis greatly increases the prevalence of severe mental health issues, such as schizophrenia

https://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html

That is really not correct.  Research on cannabis has been rather meager due to the difficulty in getting funding and publishing results.  That site appears very biased. 

It is certainly true that use of street drugs causes symptoms of mental illness to dramatically worsen.  We saw that frequently when I worked in a mental hospital.  After an escape or pass where a patient was able to get high, they got much worse it took a long time to recover.

It is also true that mentally ill people frequently seek out drugs in an apparent attempt to selfmedicate and reduce their symptoms.  It doesn't work, but may account for links between drug use and schizophrenia. 

[henrah]

If a predisposition to schizophrenia can't be accurately identified, how can they be sure that smoking cannabis can greatly increase the risk of getting schizophrenia in a person without the predisposition to it?

[wishful thinker]

Try this one:

https://www.mind.org.uk/Information/Factsheets/Treatments+and+drugs/The+psychological+effects+of+cannabis.htm

[henrah]

Do you take everything you read from that site as gospel?