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Topic: my new teacher  (Read 2231 times)

Offline maestoso

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my new teacher
on: October 25, 2006, 05:12:17 AM
ok so i went to my piano lesson and met my teacher. he's pretty cool plays numerous instruments. he said he was impressed by my playing and said i had a lot of potential. nothing really wrong with my form other than my wrists were too high and my hands bent a little to reach some notes. but pretty good.  I'm excited to take lessons he prescribed fur elise and raindrop prelude for my projects. all was going well then he uttered the words HANON! so i figured out he is from the intutive method and bernhard and chang would disapprove. i really think he is going to be a good teacher because he plays for me and doesn't discourage too many things. he also is a proponent of ht learning vs hs. which conflicts me somewhat but his sight reading and music theory are exponentially great so based on that fact alone i think it is  a good choice. i reall like the fact that he is a music professor and not JUST a piano teacher. now  to my question should i stay with him even if he teaches the intuitive method and prescribes some hanon exercises? so many different inputs and directions to go but i like the fact that he prescribed some pieces for me so i can get my competitive spirit up even if i am competing with myself! lol let me know what you think about the situation. thanks.
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosphy. Music is the electrical soil in which the spirit lives, thinks and invents." - Ludwig van Beethoven

Offline leucippus

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #1 on: October 25, 2006, 05:37:23 AM
Well, when I first started playing the piano I began with Hanon.  I thought they were great.

Then I came onto the forums and heard all these people putting them down and saying bad things about them, blah blah blah.  So I actually quit using Hanon and started just focusing on my repertoire.   But then I found that I was having some problems playing smoothly and I was actually thinking about the possibility of getting a teacher.  I even imagined that if I was a teacher what would be one of the first things I would want a student to play for me so I could assess their style.  Well, Hanon came to mind.  So I got out my old Hanon to brush up on it.  I had been away from it too long and I could not play it nearly as well as before!  So I started playing Hanon every day and it has really help to bring me back to where I was.

In my opinion the Hanon exercises are brilliant.  They are effective and I don't care what anyone says, I'll never listen to them again.  Hanon WORKS!

By the way, if you read Chang's detailed description of why he so hates Hanon you'll soon discover that the reason he hates it so is because he views Hanon as claiming to make a student into a piano virtuoso in 60 lessons.  Well no wonder he's so against that idea.  I don't believe that Hanon ever meant to seriously imply that all a person has to do is practice those 60 lessons and they will become a piano virtuoso.  It' s just a bad title for the lessons that's all.

Hanon will forever be a part of my practice schedule now.  It's a beautiful tool and gauge for where you are at.   And for those people who claim that Hanon isn't "musical", all I have to say to them is that if they can't play Hanon musically, then they will probably never be able to play anything musically.

I am now and forever a Hanon Fan!  Thank God that Hanon took the time to design those wonderful exercises!  They really do work, and their simplicity is a big part of what makes them so useful.

So I wouldn't run from that teacher.   On the contrary I think if I had a teacher who thought Hanon is a waste of time I'd drop him or her immediately and search for another teacher who understands the value of these wonderful exercises.

Offline loops

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #2 on: October 25, 2006, 07:43:01 AM

My teacher also prescribed Hanon!  He works through Hanon daily but only in the week before a performance. I told him Hanon was controversial, and he said that he wished someone had told him Hanon existed when he was learning as he was a late starter. He feels it gives him an edge for the actual performance. As a result of this discussion, I then looked more carefully at just who were the pro and anti Hanon people....those in favour were performers ie had recordings on-line etc, while those against seemed to doing pedagogy or private playing only ie no public performances.

Since my teacher plays with a glorious sound, needless to say, I came to my own conclusion and now do a modicum of it. I do find it tedious after a few minutes though. It's OK if there is a co-ordination challenge aspect, but once you've "got it" you've got it forever.

As far as HS and HT, there are three reasons why I do HS. 1) to make sure fingering is easy, I do HS really fast, 2) to build muscle memory of/experiment with articulation I do HS really slow, and 3) if you memorise HS and one finger fumbles, you can keep going with the other hand while stumbling hand regroups .
I don't do alot of it, just enough to satisfy myself that I'm not running before I can walk with a piece.
But in lessons it's all HT, although my teacher does recommend HS in the early stages of learning a challenge piece. There is nothing stopping you doing HS in private if it works for you in any event.

Ultimately you are responsible for your own learning, a teacher provides advice and opportunities
for learning but can't learn for you. Try things, come to your own conclusions, enjoy!!

Offline gonzalo

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #3 on: October 25, 2006, 10:49:03 AM
Well, when I first started playing the piano I began with Hanon.  I thought they were great.

Then I came onto the forums and heard all these people putting them down and saying bad things about them, blah blah blah.  So I actually quit using Hanon and started just focusing on my repertoire.   But then I found that I was having some problems playing smoothly and I was actually thinking about the possibility of getting a teacher.  I even imagined that if I was a teacher what would be one of the first things I would want a student to play for me so I could assess their style.  Well, Hanon came to mind.  So I got out my old Hanon to brush up on it.  I had been away from it too long and I could not play it nearly as well as before!  So I started playing Hanon every day and it has really help to bring me back to where I was.

In my opinion the Hanon exercises are brilliant.  They are effective and I don't care what anyone says, I'll never listen to them again.  Hanon WORKS!

By the way, if you read Chang's detailed description of why he so hates Hanon you'll soon discover that the reason he hates it so is because he views Hanon as claiming to make a student into a piano virtuoso in 60 lessons.  Well no wonder he's so against that idea.  I don't believe that Hanon ever meant to seriously imply that all a person has to do is practice those 60 lessons and they will become a piano virtuoso.  It' s just a bad title for the lessons that's all.

Hanon will forever be a part of my practice schedule now.  It's a beautiful tool and gauge for where you are at.   And for those people who claim that Hanon isn't "musical", all I have to say to them is that if they can't play Hanon musically, then they will probably never be able to play anything musically.

I am now and forever a Hanon Fan!  Thank God that Hanon took the time to design those wonderful exercises!  They really do work, and their simplicity is a big part of what makes them so useful.

So I wouldn't run from that teacher.   On the contrary I think if I had a teacher who thought Hanon is a waste of time I'd drop him or her immediately and search for another teacher who understands the value of these wonderful exercises.


Hanon exercise's are effective!! :o ...Then, you must be a VIRTUOSO PIANIST  ::)

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Offline asyncopated

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #4 on: October 25, 2006, 10:56:48 AM
Hmm this keeps croping up.

I did play some hannon before.  Been through most of the exercises.  I think the main problem with the dispute with hannon is that one school of though is that it is the universal cure -- play hannon well, and you can play chopin, rachamaninov and sorabji.  Nothing is further from the truth.

The other school is that hannon is useless.  This is not quite true either.  Hanon is useful when used appropriately. 

So maybe one thing to do is to try and understand what playing hannon exercises is about --  what it can do for you and what it can't. With that in mind you can choose to budget both your time and your playing style to decide how much of hannon you would like to do.   Here are some good and bad points.

Good points
1.  There is virtually no need to learn notes.  So you can just pick up a hannon exercise, get the pattern in your hand and do it.

2.  Having the luxury of not needing to concentrate on notes, you can concentrate on something else -- touch, movement, sound, legato. etc. 

3.  Hannon will help you with dexterity and keyboard topology.

4.  These are purists exercises, so it isolates a particular movement from everything else.  Sometimes purists exercises are necessary to help you along, and it gives you a good idea of how you might boil a difficult passage down to its rudimentary form.

It's good to develop these things at the start, especially if you have good guidace and know what you are trying to achieve, rather than leaving it till later and having to reassess your playing and changing your habits.

Bad points
1.  Hannon will not teach you to play any particular style well.  Bach has his own sound, so does Beethoven and Chopin and the rest.  You can't learn to play Bach well by playing hannon well, simply because to learn to play a composer you need to think in terms of that type of writing and the composition/structural aspects, as well as the sound. 

2.  It will not improve your technique.  Unfortuantely i do think that this is the case.  It really depends on how you define technique.  If you define it as moving your fingers, sure it will help you to move your fingers, but i think of technique as a rather wholistic thing, including the movement, mindset and emotions required to portray and present a piece.  This, hannon definately does not help with.

3. It will not help you develop muscle memory (not in a construtive way) or at least i haven't found that it helps explicitly with this. So being able to play hannon, doesn't mean that the movement/study of any other piece comes automatically.  This is probably contrary to what a lot of people like to think hannon is for, and I'm wondering if I am missing the point somewhere.

In summary, don't let hannon rule your playing and use it constructively in the context of developing some sort of skill.  If you don't know why you are doing a particular exercise, don't do it.  You might do more harm than good.  Lastly, don't play hannon in as a mindless exercise, to let your thoughts drift to something else.  It is not a meditation tool.





Offline jpianoflorida

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #5 on: October 25, 2006, 10:57:49 AM
I don't think you can really put down anything that helps...Hanon will most likely help you!   I can't possibly see how it would hurt you at all!  This teacher sounds great for you!   and very experienced!   Just because some teacher's have to "do it their own way" and not approve of older ways, etc...don't let that discourage you!  Every teacher has their own method and hopefully it will be what YOU need! good luck!    Please be careful to not take discussion on this forum as "the gospel"...a lot of things are discussed here and you may randomly get many people to agree against something...go to another forum and you will get many people to promote that same item! It's random......Let's face it, how many teachers in the universe are there? and how many posters on this forum?    So what percentage of teachers are represented? I'm guessing less much less than even 1percent?

Offline pianistimo

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #6 on: October 25, 2006, 01:08:33 PM
agreed so much with jpianoflorida!  over a lifetime of lessons (which i am a confessed lesson addict) - you can have up to 4-5 teachers or more that can all be somewhat at odds with each other on certain points.  but, it gives you a huge array of things to work from and with.  you can choose at a later point (once you become proficient at many things) what you want to focus on.

for me, it is now sound production in a closer, more attentive way.  and, the flow of music - and how to make it sound the most interesting.  you can't just play with the metronome your whole life - but if you are starting out with rhythms and can't keep a steady beat - working A LOT with metronomes is helpful.  it helps you gauge if you are playing presto or allegro.  and, if you are rightly dividing the beat. 

musicians that work each area -whether technique, or rhythm, or whatever - and have them all up to the proficiency of that level  - are usually working with a good teacher.  if you find there are 'holes' in your musicianship.  life circumstances (such as moving, etc) can work out favorably to broaden horizons with many teachers instead of sticking to one forever.

Offline maestoso

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #7 on: October 25, 2006, 02:25:37 PM
Thanks for the responses. I know it is a forum with everyone having their own opinion but it is so nice to have people to discuss things with good or bad. i value everyone's input. i spent 3 hours last night studying the 2nd interruption in (crowd groans)fur elise which i always had trouble playing hands together. anyway i realized that i never truly studied it close enough and slow enough to get the timing just right and when you do it flows! i know it's overplayed but i like the interruptions in it.  In essence it was the knowing that i would have someone to show and assign it to me to learn, my brain kicked in and i got it. before learning on my own i would have probably gotten it but the motivation to play it increased tenfold since i got a teacher. as far as hanon goes i liked hanon and the reason he said to play some of  it was to build velocity so i can handle that. also i realised that  is was playing more notes than rhthm and that unlocked a huge part of my hands together playing!
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosphy. Music is the electrical soil in which the spirit lives, thinks and invents." - Ludwig van Beethoven

Offline leucippus

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #8 on: October 28, 2006, 09:20:46 PM
Hmm this keeps croping up.

I did play some hannon before.  Been through most of the exercises.  I think the main problem with the dispute with hannon is that one school of though is that it is the universal cure -- play hannon well, and you can play chopin, rachamaninov and sorabji.  Nothing is further from the truth.

The other school is that hannon is useless.  This is not quite true either.  Hanon is useful when used appropriately. 

So maybe one thing to do is to try and understand what playing hannon exercises is about --  what it can do for you and what it can't. With that in mind you can choose to budget both your time and your playing style to decide how much of hannon you would like to do.   Here are some good and bad points.

I agree with what asyncopated said precisely.  I also agree with the numbered list given of what Hanon is good and not good for.

The MAJOR problem with Hanon exercises is simply their title, "Le Pianiste Virtuose".

If they would have been named "Hand Dexterity Exercises" there wouldn't be any controversy at all.

Hanon is very useful for something things, but it would be a huge mistake to play nothing but Hanon. I can't imagine anyone actually doing that.  Most students have repetoire they want to play.  It would also be a mistake to just blindy go through the Hanon exercises in order.  I personally think that would be utterly stupid.  The Hanon exercises should be chosen based on what other repetoire the students is studying. Having said that though, I think any beginning student would do well just diving into the first few exercises of the first section of Hanon.

I'm a Hanon fan, but that doesn't mean I do nothing but Hanon.  Nor does it mean that I will necessarily ever play ALL of the Hanon exercises.   It's a treasure chest of individual gems that should be selected when they will compliment the main repetorie.

Offline asyncopated

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #9 on: October 28, 2006, 10:55:21 PM
Quote
If they would have been named "Hand Dexterity Exercises" there wouldn't be any controversy at all.
I haven't quite seen it like that before, but you are right!  Actually everything is fine with the notes.  It's the words in the book that are the problem, including the title. 

If I recall correctly, the preface says something like you must practice at least one hour of hannon a day at the start and slowly increase to two or three hours.  Not only that, it goes on to claim that a if you are a virtuoso pianisnt and don't practice (hannon) you will loose your technique.  ::)  Also somehere in the instructions is to lift each of your fingers high . :-X

Some how "Le Pianiste Virtuose" sounds more romantic than "Les Mains Habile" --  the dexterous hands.  So in all, hannon are fine, but ignore the instructions and follow your teachers instructions instead  :P.

Quote
should i stay with him even if he teaches the intuitive method and prescribes some hanon exercises?

If you haven't yet decided, my answer is an automatic: yes, you should stick with it.  Give it more time to see if you can work together.  Don't just write off a method becasue it's not favoured (and therefore discussed) here in the forum, or just because it is slightly old fashioned and not the cutting edge of piano pedagogy. 

Most of these methods have merits. Some do preach what are nowadays considered misconceptions, but you already have a guide for that in is this forum.  Another important thing to take away from posts here (in the forum) is be a thinking pianist -- don't just accept everthing wholesale but gather evidence for yourself.

It is both your teachers and your reponsibility to find out what works for both of you -- in terms of teaching and learning.  The responsibility should be shared equally imo. 

A teacher (expecially one of the standard you are describing) has two important functions amougst many.  The first is to provide a trained ear, and to help you develop one.  This is especially difficult and can't be done over night.  The problem(??) with many hobbist pianist is that they develop the facility to play notes fasts but only seldom develop the finess for listening, especially to their own playing.  If you really want to learn music, imo this should be your number one priority from day one, because music is all about sound.  The stuff written in the score can only convey a very general idea of what the composer intended -- there are simply too many subtleties that cannot be written down.

The second is to develop technique to produce this sound, hopefully eventually in a concert setting.  To do this, you will need to problem solve with your teacher and share what you think works for you and what doesn't.  You will have to trust in his experience, wisdom and guidance. 

So far, I have found that the more accurately you can describe your problems, the easier it will be for your teacher to help you find a way around it.  The likelyhood is that at some point in his vast experience, he has encountered the same problem before and overcomed it.  I find that for me this is the fastest way to progress. 

Btw, it is very important that he does play for you and demonstranstes to you.  When he does, perk up, listen and watch him as closely as you can (don't close your eyes and switch off).  This is the fastest and the simplest way to show you movement and sound.  Alot of this can't really be communicated in words very easily, if you say "flex the third muscle between at the second section your index finger and the tip while relaxing your wrist and keeping it supple", it don't really hit home.  You have to see how it is done.

Offline leucippus

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #10 on: October 28, 2006, 11:41:12 PM
If I recall correctly, the preface says something like you must practice at least one hour of hannon a day at the start and slowly increase to two or three hours.  Not only that, it goes on to claim that a if you are a virtuoso pianisnt and don't practice (hannon) you will loose your technique.  ::)  Also somehere in the instructions is to lift each of your fingers high . :-X

Ok, well that could be another reason why people are against Hanon.  I didn't get any instruction pages with mine.  I downloaded them from the Virtual Sheet Music site.   I just got the actual exercises with no instructions.  So maybe that's the best way to deal with Hanon.  Just toss the instruction pages out and use the exercises in whatever way works best for you.  ;D

So in other words, I'm a fan of the Hanon "Exercises".  I didn't even know there was a Hanon "Method".  I'd probably be against that myself.   But seems ashame to toss out the baby with the bath water.  Just use the instructions for kindling, and keep the gold.  ;)

Offline arbisley

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #11 on: October 29, 2006, 01:40:32 PM
I have used some hanon exercises, and when I do, I usually gain something out of them. Technique should only really be acquired to master a piece, and these exercises are one of the ways of doing this. I believe the main concern about exercises in general is that people get into a repetitive habit where they do not actually concentrate on what they are playing, but think that putting in the hours will make them improve. If you can regard every exercise as an exciting challenge which has to be played musically, they are every inch worth it.

I'm actually on some Czerny now, the first two exercises. I find that they're great fun because they deal with one hand at a time and are musically and technically fairly simple. At the same time, as someone said, the purist aspect of one certain technical element makes it easier to analyse and practice than say a piece with many different characters requiring various technique, such as teh Schumann Pappillons which I learnt this year.

Finally, if the lessons give you a challenge you are ready to face and you enjoy them, it is not so much what he teaches as what you learn which is the crux of the matter. Stick to your teacher, he sounds like he makes reasonable use of hanon when it is needed, and gives you the inspiration to practice.

good luck!

Offline netzow

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #12 on: October 29, 2006, 06:44:35 PM
Chang's basic argument against hanon is that it doesn't do what it say's it does. This and other arguments that I have seen say that it "can" have a bad effect. I find that while Chang may be right that hanon certanly does not do what it's claims it can still be a very helpful book. Just as an example my piano teacher did not use hanon untill she was an adult. She had it recomended by a friend of her's who is a Prof. At The Wheaton Conservatory, his student's get into top graduate schools (Julliard, Peabody......). If Hanon was so bad how could he have graduated from and sent student's to grad school at Julliard and Peabody?

Offline asyncopated

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #13 on: October 29, 2006, 08:27:54 PM
If Hanon was so bad how could he have graduated from and sent student's to grad school at Julliard and Peabody?

I think there have been a series of posts in this forum, that target specifically this kind of argument.   The main point being that, if you don't really know how something works and follow the method blindly, you might just be wasting your time.

For example, if I told you that chopin played so well, because every night he kept a copy of both his etudes and his nocturns under his pillow and after years and years of doing this he became a great pianist, would you believe me?  Would you go to the same lenghts, of making sure there is a copy of both the etudes and the nocturns under your pillow every night to try and improve your playing? 

Say you do believe that it is true (i'm not acutally suggesting that you do, but for argument's sake), so you start doing it, after three, four, five years... you find your playing has improved but not as much as you would like, and certainly not to the level of chopins.  So you decide to write him a letter.  More or less saying -

Dear Mr. Chopin,

I have heard from a friend's friend a number of years back, that you keep a copy of your
etude and nocturnes under your pillow and by doing do have improved your playing
during performances.  I know that the source is realiable, and would thus have tried it,
but with out as much success.

Could you explain to me exactly how this process works?

Your's kindly,
....


And after a while Mr. Chopin writes back to you saying --

I have recently received your letter, and would like to clearify some points on the techique you have mentioned.  It is true that I do keep a copy of my nocturnes and etudes under my pillow as you have mentioned.  But the reason for doing so is that my favorite pillow is too soft and I have found that it is bad for my back. Keeping some music books under my pillow has allowed my to sleep better at night and when I give a performance after feeling rested, I tend to play better.  I had a copy of the etudes and nocturnes spare from my publishers.

best regards,

chopin


So there in lies the problem with the argument.  The only difference being that here sleeping under piano books is low cost (It cost you about 5s a day+ possibly the piano book you are sleeping under.) If you practice hanon, without knowing what you are doing, it may cost you say around 300 hours a year (practice one hour everyday, as suggested, not including sundays and bank holidays).  The cost of practicing hanon, without effect can be high.

The argument can be extended, that if you don't know what to do with hanon, it could actually cause you more harm than good, so not only might you be wasting 300 hours a year, you are also ingraining bad habits that will prevent you from becoming a good musician, or will take years to undo.  I personally believe that it is certainly possible to do this.

I suppose that is why there are a number of qualified, bona fide teachers on this forum who discourage hanon, especially without prior instruction or knowledge. 

There are also various arguments that hanon can stunt your growth musically (possibly true).  It goes a long the lines that you switch off whilst playing hanon -- which is I'm sure if you are a serious hanon player, you will.  It's not possible to sit down and play monotenous exercies for an hour everyday and not get bored.  After a while your mind just disengages and wonders.  You don't listen to your playing and are not aware of movement and touch.  This is contrary to how one should engage playing the piano.  If you get used to this, your musicallity may actually deteriorate.


So in essence, don't treat hanon lightly.  It can do you damage, or just waste lots of your time.  However, it is a practice tool and it has its purposes -- it is useful if you know what you are trying to achieve. 

The argument that it's been used by millions of people over the last 250 years is really not a good one.  It probably did more harm to the millions of people that used it over the years than good.


Offline leucippus

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #14 on: October 29, 2006, 09:08:04 PM
I believe the main concern about exercises in general is that people get into a repetitive habit where they do not actually concentrate on what they are playing, but think that putting in the hours will make them improve. If you can regard every exercise as an exciting challenge which has to be played musically, they are every inch worth it.

Amen Arbisley!


A little bit of precise practice is worth more than hours of slop

If someone plays Hanon (or any excercise) superficially just to get through it they are wasting their time.

Offline arbisley

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #15 on: October 30, 2006, 08:29:51 AM
It makes me think that I should do what i would tell others to do and not just play through my pieces all the time....

Offline leucippus

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #16 on: October 30, 2006, 10:00:18 AM
It makes me think that I should do what i would tell others to do and not just play through my pieces all the time....

I do just the opposite.  I pay so much attention to practicing every single note perfectly that I never get through a piece.  There probably does need to be a trade-off.  ;D

But when I play Hanon I play it very meticulously and musically, like you say.  Otherwise what's the point in playing it at all?  I couldn't play it for hours at a time right now because I put too much energy into playing it very cleanly.  I couldn't keep that focused for hours at at time.  But that's alright.  Right now I'm working on quality rather than quantity so it's all cool.  8)

Offline netzow

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #17 on: October 30, 2006, 02:53:25 PM
I think there have been a series of posts in this forum, that target specifically this kind of argument.   The main point being that, if you don't really know how something works and follow the method blindly, you might just be wasting your time.

I completely agree with you here! playing hanon mechancially for an hour every day when you only have a few hours (or even more than a few) to practice is something one should definatly not do. Just playing something to play it for an hour with out thinking about it is a bad idea.

For example, if I told you that chopin played so well, because every night he kept a copy of both his etudes and his nocturns under his pillow and after years and years of doing this he became a great pianist, would you believe me?  Would you go to the same lenghts, of making sure there is a copy of both the etudes and the nocturns under your pillow every night to try and improve your playing? 

Say you do believe that it is true (i'm not acutally suggesting that you do, but for argument's sake), so you start doing it, after three, four, five years... you find your playing has improved but not as much as you would like, and certainly not to the level of chopins.  So you decide to write him a letter.  More or less saying -

Dear Mr. Chopin,

I have heard from a friend's friend a number of years back, that you keep a copy of your
etude and nocturnes under your pillow and by doing do have improved your playing
during performances.  I know that the source is realiable, and would thus have tried it,
but with out as much success.

Could you explain to me exactly how this process works?

Your's kindly,
....


And after a while Mr. Chopin writes back to you saying --

I have recently received your letter, and would like to clearify some points on the techique you have mentioned.  It is true that I do keep a copy of my nocturnes and etudes under my pillow as you have mentioned.  But the reason for doing so is that my favorite pillow is too soft and I have found that it is bad for my back. Keeping some music books under my pillow has allowed my to sleep better at night and when I give a performance after feeling rested, I tend to play better.  I had a copy of the etudes and nocturnes spare from my publishers.

best regards,

chopin


So there in lies the problem with the argument.  The only difference being that here sleeping under piano books is low cost (It cost you about 5s a day+ possibly the piano book you are sleeping under.) If you practice hanon, without knowing what you are doing, it may cost you say around 300 hours a year (practice one hour everyday, as suggested, not including sundays and bank holidays).  The cost of practicing hanon, without effect can be high.

The argument can be extended, that if you don't know what to do with hanon, it could actually cause you more harm than good, so not only might you be wasting 300 hours a year, you are also ingraining bad habits that will prevent you from becoming a good musician, or will take years to undo.  I personally believe that it is certainly possible to do this.

I pretty much agree with you here. However I have one disclaimer: hanon "could" cause you more harm than good that does not mean it will cause you more harm than good. imo it would depend on how hanon was used.

I suppose that is why there are a number of qualified, bona fide teachers on this forum who discourage hanon, especially without prior instruction or knowledge. 

There are also various arguments that hanon can stunt your growth musically (possibly true).  It goes a long the lines that you switch off whilst playing hanon -- which is I'm sure if you are a serious hanon player, you will.  It's not possible to sit down and play monotenous exercies for an hour everyday and not get bored.  After a while your mind just disengages and wonders.  You don't listen to your playing and are not aware of movement and touch.  This is contrary to how one should engage playing the piano.  If you get used to this, your musicallity may actually deteriorate.


So in essence, don't treat hanon lightly.  It can do you damage, or just waste lots of your time.  However, it is a practice tool and it has its purposes -- it is useful if you know what you are trying to achieve. 

Once again it "can" cause damage.

The argument that it's been used by millions of people over the last 250 years is really not a good one.  It probably did more harm to the millions of people that used it over the years than good.




I apreciate your caution about hanon I agree one needs to be careful with hanon and how it is used.

These are my opinons about hanon

Hanon can be misused and therefore be detrimental to the development of a pianist.
This does not mean that hanon will be detrimental. I believe that hanon used correctly and in moderation can be helpful to a pianist. correctly meaning not building up stress not playing so much hanon that you start to play mechanically and damaging the musicality of one’s playing.

Hanon does not provide the benefits that the preface to the book claims. However once again it can still be helpful if used correctly.

I don’t pretend to be an expert (sorry if I sound like I think I am one) this is just my personal opinion.

As  a sort of side note, I have found that if I play hanon after I have played a piece for a while my playing will become stressful. Has anyone else experienced this?

Offline ihatepop

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #18 on: November 05, 2006, 05:11:51 AM
Stick with the new teacher, go with the Hanon.
Hanon is preety good, actually.

ihatepop

Offline jepoy

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Re: my new teacher
Reply #19 on: November 09, 2006, 03:49:47 PM
Give your new teacher a chance. While Chang is right on many points, I don't dismiss the Hanon exercises outright. What my teacher and I usually do is that if I encounter a certain technical difficulty in a piece, he selects a certain exercise in Hanon that would help me tackle that technical difficulty. We do not go through the exercises sequentially; we even vary the rhythms. It really depends on what would suit our purposes. (It's also a nifty reference book for scales, arpeggios, and the like).

In private, I always study a complicated piece HS before HT. During our lessons, we concentrate more on interpretation and resolving technical issues rather than fumbling through the piano for the right notes.
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