a concert program for next year

[tds]

Prelude, Chorale and Fugue          Frank

Sonata Op. 109                             Beethoven

                      intermission

4 Sonatas                                      Scarlatti

Fantasie Op. 17                             Schumann

----------------------------------------------------------

[pianistimo]

i happen to love ALL of these pieces - and yet, looking at it - it seems what one would call a 'careful' program.  you need something wild added.  a wild card.  not sure what that would mean to you.  perhaps something spanish or better yet, italian - that you picked up over in italy.  something people haven't heard yet? 

six etudes in canonic form (for pedal piano) by robert schumann arranged by claude debussy for two pianos?  not sure if this is using the sostenuto pedal instead?

[tds]

better yet, italian - that you picked up over in italy. 

that i pickep up over in italy? dont think i picked anythin there. as to the people, too many of them ( specially mid to southeners ) speak bullcrap all day long. sorry italians. but alot of you chap chap chap chap...almost 24 hours a day. well, it seemed like it.

back to topic!

so,...

[pianistimo]

some kind of arranged piece by debussy or busoni?  agreed, it's not 'wild' in the sense of 20 or 21st century music  - but something that brings us closer to our own age.  did you know that barry douglas has some interesting compositions.  sorry to bring in my own likes - but you probably have some favorites of your own.

[Kassaa]

I really love the program, but I agree with Pianistimo on this one. Throw in some "wild" pieces like Prokofieff sonata no. 3 or something.

This is however a program I wouldn't hesitate buying tickets for.

[dnephi]

Da Beethoven is Mildly impozzible.

Or, translated,

I think that having 3 big pieces with 4 small pieces of similar style is not that great of a program, and the Beethoven is excrutiatingly difficult, although personally I have never grown fond of the sonata as much as the 110. 

What if you were to, instead,

something very virtuosic in place of Op. 109, like Alkan Festin D'esope, and took out Franck and replaced it with the Scarlatti sonatas for the opening, and had some Ravel before the Schumann?

[tds]

susan, i got your point as to the "wild card". i totally understand. but first lemme tell u abit about how this new program came to my mind.

one gracious piano street member helped me translated a review of my concert, in which the reviewer thought that my program and my way of playing was very changable and hmm "roller coaster" like.

the title of the article was( after being translated ) " pianist from brilliant to despair." LOL. DARN!! that was the impression the reviewer got from my performance.  " piece A was superb, B was as chaotic as brainstorm, C was like a jewel, D was so great and to much", as he wrote it.

Whoaa......


heh, at least i was honest with my performance and did what i had to do. i wasn't trying to make any kind of impression ( well, not that i was concious of ). but now that i was said that i made an mpression of some kind, i turned to be quite.. hm glad to hear it, i.e. coz i received a confirmation that i was not a middle-of-the-road, play-safe type of musician. Hah! ----------talking about consolation

so, now u know part of the reason i chose this "flowing", " subtly-nuanced" type of program. and of course, the other part of the reason is that i like this program very much. perhaps it suits my personality, without my forcing it in some kind of wierd way.

hmm, anyway, other comment? anyone?

[tds]

Throw in some "wild" pieces like Prokofieff sonata no. 3 or something.

strange, i was also thinking of putting prokofief third sonata. but where? or is it to replace something that is already there?

[tds]

Da Beethoven is Mildly impozzible.

also strange, i also think the beethoven is a mildly impossible. ONLY, as i grow more mature, i am beginning to think that almost every great piece is midly impossible. what is not difficult when you reach a certain high level? u know what i mean?

[Kassaa]

strange, i was also thinking of putting prokofief third sonata. but where? or is it to replace something that is already there?

What do you think of playing it after the Franck, and after the intermission you start with Beethoven and then the Schumann? You could keep the Scarlatti as an encore.

[pianistimo]

dear tds,

i'm really confused now.  i wish i knew more about programs.  kassaa probably knows - but you know - you almost have to make a tape of everything in that order and see if it works on your friends, right?  is that what pianists do?

susan

[pianistimo]

petrassi, rieti, casella - these are some italian composers that i think people would also be interested in hearing.  for the sake of your having travelled for them - to italy - and bringing back an italian flavor.  after all, pianists travel for their audience, right?  to bring them into a world that they haven't seen.

[cloches_de_geneve]

I think the program is great. I don't think you need something "wild". What for? To amaze others?


Personally though I would choose the following order

Scarlatti
Beethoven

-----

Schumann
Franck

Franck is a great piece to end the concert, so elating.

[Kassaa]

I think the program is great. I don't think you need something wild. What for? To impress others?

Personally though I would choose the following order

Scarlatti
Beethoven

-----

Schumann
Franck

Franck is a great piece to end the concert, so elating.

You need something wild because otherwise the audience will be bored. Something that will cheer people up. I think the Prok3 is really a great way to end the first half.

I wouldn't do Franck as an end either, it's a bit too much for the end of a recital. Lugansky is going to play it here next month, he begins with the Franck.

[tds]

What do you think of playing it after the Franck, and after the intermission you start with Beethoven and then the Schumann? You could keep the Scarlatti as an encore.

this would be a bit too much for me. been thinking lately and i came up with this:

4 sonatas                                 scarlatti

sonata op. 109                        beethoven

           intermission

prelude, chorale and fugue        frank

sonata no. 2                              prokofieff


or, prokofieff and finish it off with frank.

hows every think of it now?

ps. i know thalbergmad will be somehow more pleased with this new program. but let it be known that i hate his hating schumann. heh

[dnephi]

"No quotations set forth its grandeur.  One must hear it often from eminent pianists to get an adequate understanding of its greatness."

Ernest Hutcheson, President of Juilliard, Prodigy, in his book "The Literature of the Piano.", about the Schumann Fantasy.

[arensky]

I liked the first program the best  but since Prokofiev has entered into the picture and another composer must go, here's what I think;

Ditch the Franck (save it for an all French recital). Your audience will enjoy the Schumann more. You now want to avoid too much sonata form and break up the Sonatas with short pieces. I propose..

1. 4 Scarlatti Sonatas

2. Beethoven Op.109

*********************

3. Prokofiev Sarcasms Op.17; underplayed rep that is very effective.

4. Schumann Fantasy, Op.17

[tds]

arensky, your proposal makes a lot of sense. i am almost buying it. btw, which one is cooler: prok op. 17 or op. 4?

[arensky]

arensky, your proposal makes a lot of sense. i am almost buying it. btw, which one is cooler: prok op. 17 or op. 4?

It depends on your taste; The Op.4 Four Pieces are fairly straightforward, I'm sure you know them. The Sarcasms are more like character pieces, they are quirkier and are not as obvious; hard to describe, there's a new recording by someone at Whitekeys.com if you want a free listen (who doesn't?  ). You might also consider the Four Etudes Op.2. But then it looks too symetrical with the four Scarlattis. BTW I believe there five maybe six Sarcasms.

Oh, and for after the Schumann, for an encore you need a killer etude; Paganini-Liszt a minor, or Chopin Op.25 #10 or #11, something like that...

[tds]

good reasonings. u know, i am buying it. tds

[arensky]

good reasonings. u know, i am buying it. tds

You are buying it.... how much do I get paid?   

[tds]

You are buying it.... how much do I get paid?   

come over and i'll prepare some chinese dish.

[arensky]

come over and i'll prepare some chinese dish.

Sounds good! 

[kreso]

I think it's great program, but if I can suggest you two things-
1) I would put Beethoven first and then Franck (it's more virtuoso piece to and the first half)
2) I wouldn't play Scarlatti, because it doesn't suit well to this programm which is romantic (except op.109, but it is also late Beethoven sonata and it sounds romantic). So if you could replace and play something other or you can play Fantasy alone in the second half..
Good luck!
Krešo

[tds]

to arensky,

re. some random thoughts

hmmm.. i've listened to prokofiev's sarcasm a number of time since you last suggested. and some how i am not totally convinced by it. and interestingly, i wasnt either when i first hear it many years ago. true, the set brings about a variety of moods, and parts are very exciting and catchy, but somehow it lacks of a feeling of "completion". hmm...well, dont know if that is the right word i am thinkin, but, to me, its a bit like a thin, experimental sketch book; it has plenty of colour, variety of texture, and shapes, but it feels like a work of curiousity than anything totally planned and set forth.

op 4 is an early prokofieff's work:  chromatic and romantic. true, as you said it is much more straight forward compared to op. 17. take suggestion diabolique out of the set, op. 4 would have suffered abit.

and then i listened to vision fugitives. again after many years of absence. and i love that set even more now! it is exceedingly beautiful. its a work i will definately come to learn and play in the future.

btw, back to topic:

what u think if i put a couple of spanish pieces in lieu of any prokofieff.

say this:

4 scarlatti sonatas

schuman op 17

intermission

beethoven op. 109

granados Le Quiebros ( from goyescas )
albeniez triana ( from iberia )

anyone? kassaa? susan? oh susan, pls dont jot down any modern italian pieces/composers, as much as i like italy as a country. and the food can be sublime!
---------

to kreso

thanks for your input. the original program is no longer valid. it has developed into something else, though beethoven has to be there, for the sake of my love to this work.

[Kassaa]

to arensky,

re. some random thoughts

hmmm.. i've listened to prokofiev's sarcasm a number of time since you last suggested. and some how i am not totally convinced by it. and interestingly, i wasnt either when i first hear it many years ago. true, the set brings about a variety of moods, and parts are very exciting and catchy, but somehow it lacks of a feeling of "completion". hmm...well, dont know if that is the right word i am thinkin, but, to me, its a bit like a thin, experimental sketch book; it has plenty of colour, variety of texture, and shapes, but it feels like a work of curiousity than anything totally planned and set forth.

op 4 is an early prokofieff's work:  chromatic and romantic. true, as you said it is much more straight forward compared to op. 17. take suggestion diabolique out of the set, op. 4 would have suffered abit.

and then i listened to vision fugitives. again after many years of absence. and i love that set even more now! it is exceedingly beautiful. its a work i will definately come to learn and play in the future.

btw, back to topic:

what u think if i put a couple of spanish pieces in lieu of any prokofieff.

say this:

4 scarlatti sonatas

schuman op 17

intermission

beethoven op. 109

granados Le Quiebros ( from goyescas )
albeniez triana ( from iberia )

anyone? kassaa? susan? oh susan, pls dont jot down any modern italian pieces/composers, as much as i like italy as a country. and the food can be sublime!
---------

to kreso

thanks for your input. the original program is no longer valid. it has developed into something else, though beethoven has to be there, for the sake of my love to this work.

Scarlatti
Schumann
intermission
Beethoven
Prokofieff sonata no.7?

Maybe Franck instead of Scarlatti because it's such an awesome work?

[arensky]

btw, back to topic:

what u think if i put a couple of spanish pieces in lieu of any prokofieff.

say this:

4 scarlatti sonatas

schuman op 17

intermission

beethoven op. 109

granados Le Quiebros ( from goyescas )
albeniez triana ( from iberia )

I like this too. You could also play Amor y Muerte (goyescas) and El Albaicin (iberia) or any one of the goyescas or iberia.

A sudden thought; end with the Liszt 12th Rhapsody....

[kreso]

I like this too. You could also play Amor y Muerte (goyescas) and El Albaicin (iberia) or any one of the goyescas or iberia.

A sudden thought; end with the Liszt 12th Rhapsody....

I agree with Arensky-Liszt HR 12 is great virtuoso work and real showpiece for the end. My friend plays it now, it he said it is difficult but he mastered in in few month so think of it!

[pianowelsh]

Oh my word!!

This programme is fine for difficulty - it is by no means to easy or lacking in virtuoso spark!  To play pieces like the Franck and the schumann op17 as they need to be played is to bring off some of the most challenging work in the repertoire...dont underestimate them - please!

I Like

Scarlatti
Beethoven 109
Schumann op17
Intermission
Franck Prelude chorale and fugue
Then maybe something glittery (Kreisler rachmaninov or something short you have a heavy first half - and in danger of heavy second half)
OR something fresh and Barbaric ie Prokofiev Toccata, Bartok Allegro Barbaro etc - but not LONG

Even to undertake the Beethoven SChumann and Franck in one programme will be a taxing feat if you intend doing them well - let alone some Hungarian rhapsody or Busoni transcription - it would be like eating too much chocolate! Hope your practising goes well

[kreso]

I Like

Scarlatti
Beethoven 109
Schumann op17
Intermission
Franck Prelude chorale and fugue
Then maybe something glittery (Kreisler rachmaninov or something short you have a heavy first half - and in danger of heavy second half)
OR something fresh and Barbaric ie Prokofiev Toccata, Bartok Allegro Barbaro etc - but not LONG

I think that first half is too long-Beethoven takes about 20 min and Schumann 30 min and that is too difficult because you can't have enogh energy and power to plays such masterpieces in one half...

[mephisto]

I think that first half is too long-Beethoven takes about 20 min and Schumann 30 min and that is too difficult because you can't have enogh energy and power to plays such masterpieces in one half...

Do you mean emotional energy or technical?

[kreso]

Do you mean emotional energy or technical?

I would say-both..

[arensky]

I think that first half is too long-Beethoven takes about 20 min and Schumann 30 min and that is too difficult because you can't have enogh energy and power to plays such masterpieces in one half...

I've never heard him play, but I have a feeling he can handle it.

BTW I meant to replace the Spanish pieces with the Liszt 12th. Perhaps a short lyrical Liszt piece ( Db Consolation, Le Mal du Pays, Eglouge, Il Penseroso, etc.) could precede the Rhapsody.

[pianowelsh]

It can be done I know someone who did Gaspard de la nuit, Liszt Bmin and Barber sonata one after the other and got a distinction...its doable but not always adviseable

another option would be

Franck
Beethoven
Intermission
?couple of etudes ??
Schumann op17

loose the scarlatti??!