A video of Rachmaninoff concerto no.3

[fingersflying]

Wen-Yu Shen plays Rach 3 live from queen elisabeth final round in 2003, he was only 16!!

   
part 2:

part 3:

[PaulNaud]

BRAVO  and THANK YOU !!!

[Waldszenen]

Not the most fantastic performance I've ever heard...

All technique. No feeling. His Chopin Op. 25 No. 11 is even worse.

[PaulNaud]

All technique. No feeling. His Chopin Op. 25 No. 11 is even worse.

Don't forget he is only 16 years old!!!

[dnephi]

Not the most fantastic performance I've ever heard...

All technique. No feeling. His Chopin Op. 25 No. 11 is even worse.

Better than Sgouros' 13 year old perf, no?

[Waldszenen]

Heh I suppose you're right... but then again Kissin was like 12 (?) when he played both Chopin Concerti, and they turned out brilliant

[dnephi]

Give the kid a break lol, unless you can turn out the complete Mozart concerti at the age of 10.

[avetma]

It doesn't matter how old is he. Some things just cannot be practised.

[dnephi]

It doesn't matter how old is he. Some things just cannot be practised.

What can't be practiced?  Murder?  Please explain.

[fingersflying]

Heh I suppose you're right... but then again Kissin was like 12 (?) when he played both Chopin Concerti, and they turned out brilliant

this kid's first recording of Rach 3 was made in Poland when he was 13 years old.
Thank you anyway, you're comparing him with Kissin.

[avetma]

What can't be practiced?  Murder?  Please explain.

There is no one word to put it in so you can understand. Just trying to point out the difference between all-notes-played and playing a piece.

[Waldszenen]

this kid's first recording of Rach 3 was made in Poland when he was 13 years old.
Thank you anyway, you're comparing him with Kissin.

Who cares how young he was when he learnt the Rach 3?

Personally I wouldn't give three craps if a five year old could play Alkan's complete piano works - first I'd ask if he could play them well, not just mindlessly bashing notes like this 16 year old bloke.

[counterpoint]

Seems that there are some very jealous guys around here...

[fingersflying]

Seems that there are some very jealous guys around here...

I agree.

[lazlo]

for those complaining, you should just be grateful that you get to hear and see such a talented musician instead of complaining about how they don't meet your standards. just a thought.

[fingersflying]

for those complaining, you should just be grateful that you get to hear and see such a talented musician instead of complaining about how they don't meet your standards. just a thought.

Thank you!

[franzliszt2]

I doubt he'll become a big international name. It isn't the most musical of playing, and ultimalty people pay to listen to music, not some technically perfect perormance. Theres no doubt that to play Rach3 at 16 is impressive because of the pieces huge demands, but I think musicality is much more important. I'd rather listen to a 16 year old play a beethoven sonata musically than Rach3 unmusically.

I read in a past post he recorded it when he was 13? Then he has obviously spent a long time studying the piece, and the big question is...when did he start learning it? If he's 16, and playing it there, 3 years after his first recording, if it still aint musical, then something is missing. Something which cannot be taught, just a natural feel for the music, which very few people have, hence the small number of truely great pianists.

[fingersflying]

I doubt he'll become a big international name. It isn't the most musical of playing, and ultimalty people pay to listen to music, not some technically perfect perormance. Theres no doubt that to play Rach3 at 16 is impressive because of the pieces huge demands, but I think musicality is much more important. I'd rather listen to a 16 year old play a beethoven sonata musically than Rach3 unmusically.

I read in a past post he recorded it when he was 13? Then he has obviously spent a long time studying the piece, and the big question is...when did he start learning it? If he's 16, and playing it there, 3 years after his first recording, if it still aint musical, then something is missing. Something which cannot be taught, just a natural feel for the music, which very few people have, hence the small number of truely great pianists.

If you compared with horowitz or rubinstein, yes he is not musically mature enough. But listen his 2nd movement, not many people can be musically better at age of 16.  He started learning this piece when he was 11, I don't know how much time he had put on this piece. But I know he had completed all the Beethoven sonatas by the age of 16. now he just turned in to 20, he has already mastered more than 60 piano concertos. you know we only have 24 hours a day, but he has already learned as much as normal people may need spend their entire life on, although some of them may not be musically mature. I don't know if he could make a big name cz he needs to be as lucky as langlang

[franzliszt2]

Yeh, but just because he can play all those pieces at an early age still isn't as important as being musical. All the greats were mature from an extremly early age.Lang Lang's career was not all just luck, I enjoy his performances, it's different, and he has something to say about the music. You can tell it's him playing, which I like about players. He's unique. Luck is a very small part of launching a career. People need to want to listen to you, there are loads of people who can play the Beethoven sonata, some will learn them by the age of 16, some by age 80, but people want to listenm to the music, regardless of age. By 20 you should be very mature musically. Maturity comes with pieces learnt, naturally after learning the last Beethoven sonata you will be more mature, but maturity and musicality are different.

Have you heard the recordings of Kissin aged 16 and even younger? You can tell he's going to be famous. He just has that edge. Whether you are a kissin fan or not, you have to admit he is a great pianist, and I think that it is clear from his early recordings that he was going to become one.

[zheer]

He started learning this piece when he was 11, . But I know he had completed all the Beethoven sonatas by the age of 16. now he just turned in to 20, he has already mastered more than 60 piano concertos.

  He is a genius.

[avetma]

Completely agreed with franzliszt2.

And if this topic is posted just to take compliments, you should have said so. Because I think his playing is not musical, you called me jealous.

[franzliszt2]

No he's not a genius. He's had no childhood, and has practiced a lot. If he was genius he would be musical

[PaulNaud]

SO MANY JEALOUS AND FRUSTRATED PIANISTS ON THIS WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pumkinhead]

Yeah guys, I hate to say it, but he's achieved more, musically and technically, than basically everyone on this thread never will. For all the people who detest his undeniable talent, I'd like to ask how many major international competitions, beethoven sonatas, or piano concertos they've learned. Most likely, they still take months for a movement from an easier Beethoven sonata, and won't even post their recordings. Try playing one of the most difficult piano concertos in front of millions of people, including a well-known jury. So guys, quit putting talented people down just because you know that you can't.

[thierry13]

I have to admit I kinda liked his performance. Rach 3 has to be one of my favorite piece ever. My favorite is definately Horowitz, tough it's amazing to hear what Rachmaninoff had to say about it. I know his performance wasn't really that mature, but I don't think it is bad to be immature. Sometimes it's fun to see how we play at 16, and then do a great recording 20 years later, and hear the difference, the maturation, etc. Plus, being young, at another point in one's life, gives you a different point of view of the piece, wich I think is interesting. Maybe less deep emotions, but sure an hella load of excitation, we can feel it, and it's really fun. He is definately an incredibly talented pianist. To the ones who mentioned that some things can't be learned, like how to put emotion into a piece... give him time, you do not acquire maturity by playing more piano, but by having a life, life experiences, not only musical experiences. To be the best pianist, you need to be a great person too, as you need to have a well balanced life, interests outside of music, dear friends, being in love at least once, or feeling all the deception of not being loved by the one you love, etc. etc. ... those kind of life experiences give a far deeper aproach to the music as a person, way more than playing piano over and over again all day.

[Waldszenen]

SO MANY JEALOUS AND FRUSTRATED PIANISTS ON THIS WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

haha

Jealous is what I am of... Horowitz, or Rubinstein, or Bolet. Someone worth being jealous about.

This bloke? Nope, not even worth the effort being jealous about.

[fingersflying]

Yeh, but just because he can play all those pieces at an early age still isn't as important as being musical. All the greats were mature from an extremly early age.Lang Lang's career was not all just luck, I enjoy his performances, it's different, and he has something to say about the music. You can tell it's him playing, which I like about players. He's unique. Luck is a very small part of launching a career. People need to want to listen to you, there are loads of people who can play the Beethoven sonata, some will learn them by the age of 16, some by age 80, but people want to listenm to the music, regardless of age. By 20 you should be very mature musically. Maturity comes with pieces learnt, naturally after learning the last Beethoven sonata you will be more mature, but maturity and musicality are different.

Have you heard the recordings of Kissin aged 16 and even younger? You can tell he's going to be famous. He just has that edge. Whether you are a kissin fan or not, you have to admit he is a great pianist, and I think that it is clear from his early recordings that he was going to become one.

you got me wrong. I like both Kissin and lang lang. but there are still a lot talented pianists who don't have a big career, such as joyce hatto, sergio tiempo. no matter how talent and how good the pianist is, he still needs luck. That's what I meant.
I don't want to argue with you about his talent. nobody can deny what he has already achieved. I know he's not perfect yet but just don't understand why we can't give him more room to grow up? why do people sound like they just want to kill him? It's very sad. I should have uploaded this video if I knew people wouldn't appreciate it all

[arensky]

I've just listened to the 1st mvt.

Some comments question his musicality. I don't, I think he's very musical but the tone is often thin and metallic and this was annoying in the 2nd theme, which he phrased and shaped quite beautifully, if the tone had had more body to it this and the other lyrical sections would have been transcendent but they were just good as a result of this deficiency in tone color. His technique is excellent, no question about it. .
I felt he finally got into the music at 7:38 in Part I of the first mvt., from that moment it was like a hurricane, really exciting playing. Hopefully a fine future is in store for this sincere and very talented young pianist. 

[Waldszenen]

you got me wrong. I like both Kissin and lang lang. but there are still a lot talented pianists who don't have a big career, such as joyce hatto, sergio tiempo. no matter how talent and how good the pianist is, he still needs luck. That's what I meant.
I don't want to argue with you about his talent. nobody can deny what he has already achieved. I know he's not perfect yet but just don't understand why we can't give him more room to grow up? why do people sound like they just want to kill him? It's very sad. I should have uploaded this video if I knew people wouldn't appreciate it all

Hard world, mate. Get used to it.

[counterpoint]

If LangLang is meant to be a model of "musical" interpretation, then I would be proud, if someone would call my playing unmusical 

(I don't find Kissin that interesting.)

[franzliszt2]

Yeah guys, I hate to say it, but he's achieved more, musically and technically, than basically everyone on this thread never will. For all the people who detest his undeniable talent, I'd like to ask how many major international competitions, beethoven sonatas, or piano concertos they've learned. Most likely, they still take months for a movement from an easier Beethoven sonata, and won't even post their recordings. Try playing one of the most difficult piano concertos in front of millions of people, including a well-known jury. So guys, quit putting talented people down just because you know that you can't.

Piano playing is noyhing about how old you are, or how many people you play hard stuff in front of. Anyone can do that, and I mean anyone. He's clearly played since an early age and been pushed by parents teachers etc.. and aged 20 is still not internationally recognised and playing in the big festivals, concerts etc.. 20 is too late to make a career these days. By 20, if your going to be big, you will already be big, your sound, musicallity, technique and repertoire will be fully developed to a high degree. His technique is great, his rrepertoire is, but he lacks musicallity.

As for major international competitions, they are the worst things ever these days, they mean nothing. Did you see the Leeds international this year? It was appauling, although the guy who won was good in my opinion. The rest were crap, the Mozart concerto's were absolutly foul, they were awful, absolutly appauling. If thats the standered of the top international competitions, than winning them means nothing, it's what happens after the competitions that counts. If this guy has won major competitions, is 20, has that amount of repertoire, and is still not famous, than something is wrong, clearly.


I dissagree about the luck to a certain degree, I mean Lang Lang was lucky in the way he replaced Andre Watts....BUT, he was clearly an amazing pianist, and thats why he was selected, his name wasn't drawn from a hat. He went no from there to achieve great things. Most great pianists are pianists who people want to listen to, and thats why they become big, not luck.

[Waldszenen]

Piano playing is noyhing about how old you are, or how many people you play hard stuff in front of. Anyone can do that, and I mean anyone.

Touche. 

[ramseytheii]

Yeah guys, I hate to say it, but he's achieved more, musically and technically, than basically everyone on this thread never will. For all the people who detest his undeniable talent, I'd like to ask how many major international competitions, beethoven sonatas, or piano concertos they've learned. Most likely, they still take months for a movement from an easier Beethoven sonata, and won't even post their recordings. Try playing one of the most difficult piano concertos in front of millions of people, including a well-known jury. So guys, quit putting talented people down just because you know that you can't.

But I really dont understand this idea, that if person A is unable to do the thing that person B can, person A should not criticize.  if this were true, nobody would be allowed to criticize the government!

Also criticism in music can be quite productive.  You put down your ideas, and then you can hone or discard yoru ideas based on the response you get.  If you always keep your mouth shut, thinking, because I can't play Rachmaninoff 3rd at 16 I have no right saying anything, you will never develop.  And if you do this in a political correlation, ie, I am not Secretary of Defense so I have no right criticizing what he is doing, you are just an idiot.  And in Amerika they try and tell us this all the time, that because we aren't privilged to the same classified information, and blah blah, we don't have the right to criticize the political moves of the President and his cronies.  Sorry that is mumbo jumbo.  Actions have results, and you can determine the rightness or wrongness of the actions from those results.

So it is in music, that we can hear the results of someone's practice and talent, and if it offends our sensibilities, we actually must speak out.  There are no laws for instance in music that say, a person must play this forte, or this piano, or something, but there is a morality in music which sets the standard, and this morality has to be applied.  Therefore if you hear someone playnig a piece which soudns to you like a mechanical reproduction, speak out absolutely.  This is against the morals of music.

Walter Ramsey

[Waldszenen]

But I really dont understand this idea, that if person A is unable to do the thing that person B can, person A should not criticize.  if this were true, nobody would be allowed to criticize the government!

True. People criticise movies all the time yet they're probably incapable of making films themselves, for example.

[kreso]

I will just say one anegdote-when Gilels paid a visit to the Julliard School and a student asked him how long it took him to lear the "Roch Third", he replied: "I began work it at agre eighteen and I am still working at.."

[avetma]

I will just say one anegdote-when Gilels paid a visit to the Julliard School and a student asked him how long it took him to lear the "Roch Third", he replied: "I began work it at agre eighteen and I am still working at.."

I thought it was Hamelin's thought...

[kreso]

I thought it was Hamelin's thought...

Maybe him also, but I remember reading in booklet of CD of Gilels Florence recital that Gilels said this...

[cmg]

Despite the reservations some have regarding Shen's playing, I don't think anyone is saying he's an untalented booby who has no right to command the international stage.  He clearly can handle the most demanding repertoire, but does this particular performance of the Rach3 banish any memories of performances by, say, Argerich, Hough, Horowitz, etc., etc.? 

I found his playing expert but uninspiring and, yes, I know he's quite young, but at his age Argerich and Kissin had "personality" and "temperament" stamped all over their efforts.  Just listen to Argerich's Chopin E minor from the competiton in Warsaw and you hear something that makes you sit up and pay VERY close attention.  Shen's playing strikes me as very proficient but very earthbound.  I actually found my attention wandering throughout the concerto.   

Something else interesting about the power of video, too, is that when you close your eyes while listening to Shen play, you are deprived of a very persuasive image:  a video of a very attractive human being with a technique that is beautiful to watch.  But the sound he creates doesn't match the image.  It's not nearly as handsome as the video presentation.  If we only had an aural record of this performance, would we be so struck with his playing?

Nevertheless, I think everyone is grateful to the poster who provided us with these links.  Thank you for letting us experience the work of a truly gifted pianist.  Some of us just don't think his playing is as persuasive as others.  And that doesn't make us "jealous," spiteful, unaccomplished malcontents.     

[marco_from_brazil]

By 20, if your going to be big, you will already be big, your sound, musicallity, technique and repertoire will be fully developed to a high degree. His technique is great, his rrepertoire is, but he lacks musicallity.

i`m sorry franz, but I must disagree. how about Paderewski? the man started to SERIOUSLY play the piano at about age 23. I very much dislike the "you have to begin playing the piano 2 hours after you leave the womb if you are going to be a good pianist" speech.

maybe that is just because I was just turned 23 when I abandoned everything in favor of piano playing some 8 months ago. I GOTTA BELIEVE! =)

i'll watch the concerto as soon as i finish listening to No.2 :-)

cheers

[franzliszt2]

Paderewski's technique was famously bad! Look at it on films, but he was musical. And his concerts were unique, and full of energy, and audiences loved him, he was the "Brad Pitt of his day" lol

[andrewg]

He did get through the 1st cut at the current Hamamatsu Competition. I listened to his 2nd stage complete program. I wasn't impressed that much. He did not make it to the 3rd stage. The competition should be over by tomorrow night, I guess.

[franzliszt2]

He's the perfect material for a piano competition. His repertoire is suited to that, Islamey, Rach3 etc..

But on the concert platform away from competition theres nothing special, just a great technqiue. Compared to the achievments of Arrau, Horowitz, Rubinstein etc.. there is no comparison. They were real genius'.

[andrewg]

Just a question for the concerti videos on Hamamatsu Competition site: Is there anyway to download the video stream files from there to my hard disc? I love these performances very much. Any information would be much appreciated.

[pianowolfi]

You need

https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/2390/
and
https://www.download.com/Riva-FLV-Encoder/3000-2140-10320097.html?part=dl-RivaFLVEn&subj=dl&tag=button


unfortunately I didn't yet figure out how you can get a bigger screen.