pieces to aquire technique!

[humblemonkey]

Hello everyone,

I am looking to aquire a database, helpful to all, not too advanced (yet), students of piano.

Can people start putting forward suggestions about pieces, and link them to a specific technique. I know this topic was done for stacatto, but how about for stretching arpeggio's in the left hand, tremelos, double thirds, basic hand independence, fake legato, runs, etc. A basic guideline as to the difficulty of the piece would also be helpful so as pieces can be roughly ordered.

I have a list of pieces that I am dying to play, but are all well beyond my level at this point. These are at this point: Liszt - Un Sospiro, Tarantella; Chopin - Ballade in G minor and F minor, Berceuse, Etude op.25 no.12; Debussy - reflects dans l'eau, clair de lune, le soiree dans grenada; Beethoven - Appasionata and Pastorale sonata.

Pieces with similar, but far less demanding, techniques would be of great benifit so I can eventually tackle these pieces.

I'm not looking for suggestions pertinant to only the pieces I listed (though suggestions are more than welcome ) but for any particular technique that may need honing.

Cheers
humblemonkey   

[asyncopated]

There is really one thing I can't understand.  Are these the only pieces you want to play?   There are a huge number of piano pieces out there, of varying difficulties, surely there must be some that you like?

Concentrate on the music, the technique will fall into place.  Currently, for acquring technique and sound, I play one baroque, one classical and one romantic/impressionistic work.   This seems to work will for me, and in the process, I believe that my technique is getting better.

Besides, technique is such a broad area -- it's not just about how to do scales, or thirds, etc.  It's how these ideas are set in a piece, and how you interpret them to make them shine, and how you sell the music to your audience.

For studying the basic stuff you mentioned, I have two long term projects suggested by my teacher --

1. Doing all of bach invensions -- spending about one month per invension.

2. Learning the notes to one movement of a haydn sonata a week. 

I try to do these well.  My teacher is fussy about the sound  and won't let the piece go until i reach a certain standard.  I find that this is really a good thing for me -- I means that all the piece I play a not too far from performance standard. 

In theory if I manage this, in about a year I would have played 15 invensions and approximately 15 complete sonatas.  I think that this will give most of the baroque and classical technique necessary to move on to more advanced pieces. 

I really love long term projects.  I find them a real challenge.

So far, we've also looked at some chopin and debussy, but I don't have a long term project for the romatic era stuff.  Maybe I should ask for one.

My next projects will be to do all of WTC, all chopin etudes, all beethoven sonatas and maybe a couple of sorabji.

[humblemonkey]

No, not the only pieces I want to play. Just some examples of pieces that are currently well above my level.

So we have haydn sonata's and bach inventions for the basic stuff. I like the idea about turning work in consistently.

Any other suggestions of pieces that corrolate with a specific technique?

[pianowelsh]

we dont know what level your at humble monkey so its difficult - we could suggest pieces that are too easy for you (hence not stretching you at all). Generally I find etude literature and prelude literature are brilliant for developing technical facility in concentrated way..also for more advanced students - variation structure.

[rc]

Well, asking for a breakdown of the technique in pieces is a pretty big question since there can be so many different motions in basically any piece.  You could take any piece of music and break it down into a list of techniques.

It's just such a huge, general question.

Pianowelsh makes a good point as well, it's a highly personal matter as to what specific techniques could use some work.

I think a better approach would be to take a look at what you can do, and make a breakdown of areas you could improve on.  Put the focus on your weak-links.  That way you can narrow your search.  Begin by asking yourself "what is my weakest area?" and it will be very clear what you need to look for.

Or, even to do this as you learn whatever you may be learning...  When you come across a passage that you have particular difficulties with, consider choosing your next piece to feature more of that difficulty.  Before long, you're weaknesses all become strengths and you develop into a well-rounded musician.

My last few pieces were chosen because they featured fast, continuous fingerwork because I felt that I was pretty sloppy at that kind of technique.  I've been told a few times that my LH isn't so expressive, so my next few pieces will probably be chosen with that in mind.

So, what area are you weakest in?

[richy321]

Humblemonkey,

You seem to believe that the universe of technique can be categorized into discrete components and all you need to do is find the right one for a given situation and simply apply it, somewhat like painting by numbers.  I don't think it works that way at all.  In my view, technique is an integrated system that is built up from the most basic principles and is developed incrementally from what went before until it has mastered virtually all situations.

By the way, aren't you the near-prodigy late-starter who went through a selection process to pick out the best teacher out of 5 eager candiates?  If you truthfully described your situation and have selected a teacher, I don't understand why you are now trying to devise such a poorly thought-out approach on your own.  Any teacher would quickly disabuse you of this idea.  Something does not ring true.
 

[humblemonkey]

I am indeed that character. I spoke to my teacher and told him exactly what I tried to put into a post here. I told him HOW I want to learn, and my ideas to him were "all excellent." though, I am not starting lessons till feb next year due to holidays so I tried to get some starter advice on here.

In my mind, my plan was/is not poorly thought out - rather, poorly put. What doesn't ring true exactly? Didn't Bernhard use the example of the revolutionary etude and several pieces for it that were similar in character?

That was what I was getting at.

Surely some pieces must have an abundance of a specific technique (alkan's allegro barbaro has an abundance of octaves, for example), and i was trying to get a list compiled like that. that is all.

Me throwing in some of my "dream pieces" must have confused the matter, because that changed the topic from certain techniques with certain pieces, to bridging pieces.

Surely, if someone goes "I want to work on arpeggio's with wide-spreads in the left hand, can anyone tell me any pieces that feature that so I can work on it" there would be many pieces that would be suitable. That was more what I was getting at. And if you have several pieces with SIMILAR not identical, passages, the technique would become integrated.

Does that make a little more sense?

[richy321]

Sorry if I misunderstood what your idea was.  I think I understand you now.  You are interested in a database that gives examples of different types of technical problems.  That has some merit, but there is, first of all, the problem of defining and classifying all the known technical problems in piano technique.  This would be quite an undertaking, I would think, and would require quite a bit of theoretical analysis of techique itself.  But who knows, it is possible that it has been done.  Have you tried Googling?

What bothered me was the impression I got that you thought that by merely listing a number of pieces that contain a specific techical problem, all you had to do was to play those pieces, and the problem was thereby solved.  My question is how would you know how to play them?  It could very well be the case that a naturally talented student can instinctively figure it out without any mechanical or mental analysis or instruction.  You may be one of those rare cases in which this is true, in which case you are very fortunate indeed.  Best wishes as you begin lessons with your new teacher.  Keep us posted.

 

 

[b0mbtrack]

i understand your question humblemonkey and was wondering the same thing myself.  I used to play guitar for a long time and had a great book to learn from that would go over all sorts of things like scales, arpeggios, types of picking, etc....  These were put into songs in the book and gone over so many times that when it came to playing them in real songs you were so used to it they became easy.  I haven't found anything like that for the piano yet though.

[ganymed]

you may want to have a look at this thread
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7391.0.html

there you dl the grade sheet paper you can also choose pieces with specific techniques