Emphasizing "middle" voices

[dabbler]

Often in polyphonic music one needs to emphasize a voice "in the middle" (currently practicing Bach-Busoni's beautiful "Nun freut Euch lieber Christen gmein", BWV 734). This is mostly done by playing it a bit louder than the rest. For example, if my left hand plays a bass line, except for its thumb, which plays the main melody, I try to hit the keys a bit harder with the thumb than with the rest.

My problem is, if I do so, my thumb also hits a bit earlier than the finger involved in the bass line -- I guess because I move it faster, so that the note sounds louder.

But if I need to go down with fingers at different speed, how can I avoid this problem of not making the notes sound simultaneously? Do I need to start moving the fingers at slightly different times? If I think about it, it sounds very complicated to me. Are you doing this subconciously, or can you suggest any practice tips to play -- in one hand -- different notes simultaneously at different levels of loudness? I'd be happy about any kind of feedback!

[ramseytheii]

Often in polyphonic music one needs to emphasize a voice "in the middle" (currently practicing Bach-Busoni's beautiful "Nun freut Euch lieber Christen gmein", BWV 734). This is mostly done by playing it a bit louder than the rest. For example, if my left hand plays a bass line, except for its thumb, which plays the main melody, I try to hit the keys a bit harder with the thumb than with the rest.

My problem is, if I do so, my thumb also hits a bit earlier than the finger involved in the bass line -- I guess because I move it faster, so that the note sounds louder.

But if I need to go down with fingers at different speed, how can I avoid this problem of not making the notes sound simultaneously? Do I need to start moving the fingers at slightly different times? If I think about it, it sounds very complicated to me. Are you doing this subconciously, or can you suggest any practice tips to play -- in one hand -- different notes simultaneously at different levels of loudness? I'd be happy about any kind of feedback!

There has been a lot written about attack speed, and it all sounds very scientific, but to be honest I just don't experience it at all.  I cannot tell when I have fast attacks, when I have slow attacks, or when i have attacks in the middle of those speeds.  I can hear all the different sounds, but I have no idea how one controls this sort of thing, and honestly, I don't really believe in it.

The main factor in playing with one hand two different sounding parts is imagination.  This is what led Busoni to write in the first canon of the Goldberg variations,  "quasi hautbois," and "quasi flauto" or whatever language he was writing in.  You have to be able to do this without breaking the chord, though it is possible to use broken chords as a way to highlight polyphony (Gould did this constantly).

A simple way to practice is to play a 5-note diminished chord with one hand, repeat the chord 10 times, and each time highlight a different note in the texture, going up and down the arpeggio (but always playing all 5 notes).

Another way is to learn more of the Bach-Busoni Chorale preludes.

Also, practice on an organ if you have a chance, using 2 manuals, one with a soft 8' string, and the other with a 8' and 4' reed sound.  Then remember this sound combination, and imitate it with one hand on the piano.

When I learn new pieces, I go through them to find as many polyphony combinations as possible.  When you highlight parts on the inside, when practicing, I recommend that you really exaggerate them, and in performance, you obviously tone it down.  Only practice will solve this problem, and there are no magical solutions, but when you do practice, make sure that the inner parts are the ones you really hear, and be strict about this.  Then you will be able to achieve what you want.

Walter Ramsey

[dabbler]

Thanks for your helpful comments. I have started practicing to highlight different notes in a chord according to your suggestions. I'm still having problems, but I guess this will require some patience.

Could you point me to some references that you alluded to with "there has been a lot written about attack speed...". I, too, cannot imagine that you can control these parameters consciously, and that this has to come from feeling/imagination, but still I'd be interested to read a bit about what these people say.

Thanks again,
  Tobias

[xamy]

I am currently learing the Bach fugue from WTK Book 1 in g minor. It is in 4 voices, and I know exactly what problems you are experiencing.

If anyone cares to look it up, the problem is in bar 17 and beginning of bar 18. Both hands are playing 2 voices each, and you need to switch from emphasising the bass to emphasing the alto part, which is increadibly hard to do since the other to voices (tenor and soprano) contain semi quavers which so easily drown out the quavers of the bass and alto. Hehe that was hard to explain, maybe don't bother understanding it...

Anyway, in terms of practicing, I think the usual applies: practice slowly and also take two parts in seperate hands and make sure you get it to sound exactly as you want it to.

[counterpoint]

I, too, cannot imagine that you can control these parameters consciously, and that this has to come from feeling/imagination

If I wouldn't do this (controlling the sound volume consciously) I wouldn't do it at all.

It is fruitless to wait for unconsious enlightenment. Great, if it comes over you - but since then... take control!!!

[dabbler]

Just for the record (maybe helpful to others, too):
I have discovered a little trick that works quite well for me. Remember, the problem was that if I want to emphasize one note over another (both played in the same hand simultaneously) I had problems that the two tones start sounding exactly at the same time. The louder note was always a bit too early. Now what worked for me to address this problem is to imagine I'd be playing a mini-arpeggio (consisting only of these two notes). In thinking so, I seem to start going down a bit earlier with the "softer" key, and a bit "later" with the one that should sound louder. In the end, they hit simultaneously.

[ramseytheii]

If I wouldn't do this (controlling the sound volume consciously) I wouldn't do it at all.

It is fruitless to wait for unconsious enlightenment. Great, if it comes over you - but since then... take control!!!

Of  course you're right, but I think we are talking about specific parameters here.  I for instance, usnig myself as an example, can feel different amounts of weight being used, and can control them; I can control the style of touch which i employ, and the articulations that I want; I can play loudly, softly as I desire.  But never have I experienced what feels like "speed of attack," or pushing the keys down at different rates.   The original poster worked himself into a mental pretzel trying to imagine two fingers of one hand pushing the keys down at different rates of speed.  I have heard a lot of physical (as in physics) knowledge about this, but I can't relate it to anything in my personal experience, no matter how much I want to.  Therefore I don't believe it exists.  

A certain amount - well a lot - of imagination is needed anyways, and often we find that technique of sound production is built from within rather than without, that is to say, you know the goal already and then you discover or even invent the tools.

Walter Ramsey

[richy321]

In thinking so, I seem to start going down a bit earlier with the "softer" key, and a bit "later" with the one that should sound louder. In the end, they hit simultaneously.

Eureka! You got it exactly!  I was just going to say the same thing, but you got it on your own.  I've thought about this situation quite a lot and came to the same conclusion.  In PPP, especially, the downward velocity is greatly reduced so it means that you need to start the lateral positioning and descent ahead of the beat, so that the actual strike will not be late.  Visa versa with fortes.

[ramseytheii]

Eureka! You got it exactly!  I was just going to say the same thing, but you got it on your own.  I've thought about this situation quite a lot and came to the same conclusion.  In PPP, especially, the downward velocity is greatly reduced so it means that you need to start the lateral positioning and descent ahead of the beat, so that the actual strike will not be late.  Visa versa with fortes.

By vice versa, do you mean that with forte, you need to "start the lateral positioning and descent" behind the beat?

Walter Ramsey

[counterpoint]

I for instance, usnig myself as an example, can feel different amounts of weight being used, and can control them;

You are right - playing with more or less weight  is a good method to control the volume of the sound. But there are many situations where I prefer to play without weight but only with faster or slower movement of the fingers (or the hand). With this method it is  no problem to play very soft or very loud as well. In former times, I used the weight method most of the time, but today I feel more comfortable using the weightless method in many cases.

[richy321]

By vice versa, do you mean that with forte, you need to "start the lateral positioning and descent" behind the beat?

Walter Ramsey

No, you certainly wouldn't start the movement after the beat (unless you were playing jazz maybe), but relative to a soft note you initiate the movement later so that both notes arrive on the beat.  Hopefully, you don't have to do this consciously, or you might go nuts.   

[pizno]

The finger that is bringing out the melody can be straighter than the rest, and get more traction on the key.  I just had a lesson on this today.

I have practiced this this way:  make your fingers all stiff, and play the chord with the balance on the tone you want to hear.  Now, play it normally.  Your 'tone' finger will automatically stay straighter, and the tone will be more projected.

Piz

[lostinidlewonder]

When one hand needs to play 2 different volumes at the same time like a thumb etching out somethings while the upper part plays more quietly, we should sense our entire hand being weighed down by the thumb, it is almost as if mass floods into and around and down into the thumb and around the pad in our palm. Likewise if the little finger needs to be etched out we sense added weight into the upper part of the hand, the centre of gravity shifts.

When you balance a ruler on your finger then put weights on one side the centre of gravity shifts. This is exactly the same for the hand we can move this fluid centre around the hand to be able to etch out particular fingers practically effortlessly by moving our hand over the centres of gravity and letting that pull our hand to partucular notes with more force than others.

Straigtening the finger you want to draw out is an excellent way as well. What it does is make us feel that the entire finger is bring drawn down with more force due to gravity towards the note, there should be very little extra effort to produce this, there is no individual finger movement to control this, simply straightening the finger and letting it drop controlled, no extra pressing from the individual finger but the entire hand which is effected by the gravity on the individual finger. The fact that the finger is straightened when it strikes but the hand wants to curl the fingers slightly because that is what the natural postiion is, increases the force behind the note as well. That slight pulling force is pulling back towards you from the pad of the finger tip when it strikes the note. It is almost as if the finger wants to curl up and take the note with it, it is almost as if the note is glued onto the finger with some sticking force.

[ramseytheii]

When one hand needs to play 2 different volumes at the same time like a thumb etching out somethings while the upper part plays more quietly, we should sense our entire hand being weighed down by the thumb, it is almost as if mass floods into and around and down into the thumb and around the pad in our palm. Likewise if the little finger needs to be etched out we sense added weight into the upper part of the hand, the centre of gravity shifts.

When you balance a ruler on your finger then put weights on one side the centre of gravity shifts. This is exactly the same for the hand we can move this fluid centre around the hand to be able to etch out particular fingers practically effortlessly by moving our hand over the centres of gravity and letting that pull our hand to partucular notes with more force than others.

Straigtening the finger you want to draw out is an excellent way as well. What it does is make us feel that the entire finger is bring drawn down with more force due to gravity towards the note, there should be very little extra effort to produce this, there is no individual finger movement to control this, simply straightening the finger and letting it drop controlled, no extra pressing from the individual finger but the entire hand which is effected by the gravity on the individual finger. The fact that the finger is straightened when it strikes but the hand wants to curl the fingers slightly because that is what the natural postiion is, increases the force behind the note as well. That slight pulling force is pulling back towards you from the pad of the finger tip when it strikes the note. It is almost as if the finger wants to curl up and take the note with it, it is almost as if the note is glued onto the finger with some sticking force.

That's great information!  Would you say this is a weight issue, rather then an issue of trying to control the "speed of attack" if such a thing exists, of each individual finger?

Walter Ramsey

[lostinidlewonder]

Would you say this is a weight issue, rather then an issue of trying to control the "speed of attack" if such a thing exists, of each individual finger?

If the issue is about giving more volume to particular fingers of one hand with regard to its other fingers, then the issue has little to do with speed of attack. If we rely on giving greater volume to a note by increase the velocity at which the finger strikes it we start to create individual finger movements to produce a desired sound. We should avoid creating technique which uses an individual finger effort and detach it from the entire movement of the hand as a whole.

Experienced pianists will tell you to make sound louder you "press" into the keyboard more, not actually drop fingers faster to produce more force striking the note. The thing is that the piano can be touched infinite ways, but the correct technique directs us towards efficiency of energy transfer to our instrument to produce the desired sound. Using velocity of fingers to change the volume of notes is not the way to go.

However at the same time as we raise our fingers and straighten them to draw out sound, if someone measured the speed at which the finger falls it is most probable that it is faster than if you where not to raise the finger and straighten it when you strike a note. However we do not consider the actual speed of the finger rather the mechanics of straightening it and controlling its fall to the note and how that is controlled by the entire hand.

Still I will not raise my fingers and drop them all the time to etch out the sounds. Take Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata movement 1, notice how the RH 5th highlights the melody, I would feel very strange lifting this finger up all the time and dropping it onto its note, instead I feel my pinky press into the keyboard as well as the centre of gravity in the hand shifting appropraitely to compensate for the mass imbalance between the pinky and the rest of the fingers.

On the other hand if I play Scriabin I find myself often straigthening middle fingers slightly as I press into the notes. It all depends on the piece and what feels easiest for YOU.

The hand at the piano can tilt left or right, up or down, turn at angle to the keyboard etc etc. There is mass constantly shifting about the hand, we can manipulate this (as well as many other factors) as an important tool to produce different shades of sound which commands our comfortable technique. The reasoning WHY we should do this always should be attached to comfort and effortlessness to produce a desired sound.

[dabbler]

Many thanks lostinidlewonder, your comments really added something new here. I will try to think in terms of shifting the center of gravity / straigthening fingers a bit. Maybe this is really better than to think of fingers as isolated players each going down by it's own speed.