The God Warrior

[pianolist]

Isn't he the one who has played all the Minute Waltzes?

[mephisto]

Yes.

[ahinton]

Indeed - the very same - on a CD entitled "Got a Minute" (not "God every Minute", susanistimo, dear!) on the Swedish BIS label; he's also recorded all the Ligeti piano music and released the first (and recorded the next two) of six(?) volumes of the complete 100 Transcendental Studies of Sorabji for the same label. He has an additional life as a neuroscientist...

Best,

Alistair

[pianolist]

I wonder whether he's a member of Piano Street?

[ahinton]

I wonder whether he's a member of Piano Street?

Who? God? Susanistimo? Ligeti? Sorabji? Ullén? God is everywhere, of course, so that must surely include Pianostreet, even if Nils Johan is not actually aware of his presence in the sense of having formally sanctioned and recognised Him as a member. Susanistimo is most definitely a member of Pianostreet, as every other member of Pianostreet knows very well. Ligeti died before becoming a member. Sorabji died before Pianostreet was even so much as a something-or-other in Nils Johan's mother's eye. Fredrik Ullén, the splendid Swedish pianeuroscientist - who, of course, I realise is the one that you're actually asking about - is almost certainly not a member of Pianostreet...

Best,

Alistair

[pianolist]

I'm not surprised, really. I don't suppose he has a minute to himself.

[pianistimo]

so much ground has been covered!  i see there hasn't been God every minute, either.  i suppose i should shake some cinnamon over things again.  i did laugh about the depth of water and your funny outtakes on life, religion, piano, and triple etudes of chopin.  what bizarre things composers do.  but, i suppose - no more bizarre than what 'religious folk' do.  i mean, it's kind of all the same.  we just 'ooh and ahh' over different things.  marc andre-hamelin, although genius that he is - is just another ordinary person to me.  i don't put him way up here - but i also wouldn't dare to rub shoulders with him for fear of saying something utterly stupid.  i would - gaze from a distance and always appreciate his playing.

God, on the other hand - whom i want to meet and shake hands with - has got to be one of the most mysterious things (God) i should ever know.  that is why i anxiously await His return.  i want to see Him in the clouds, experience His divinity, feel the reality of the spiritual world that He speaks of as 'seeing through a glass darkly' for us right now, and to be amazed at His ability to allow the deaf to hear, the lame to walk, the blind to see - and for me to finally play the piano perfectly (thus eliminating competition like marc andre-hamelin - or at least evening the score).  now, this may not seem like a very good reason (being that there might be a tinge of jealousy reeking out of a green puff cloud on one side of my brain.  but, really - it's not competition that i wish to destroy - but rather that i should like to at least be in the running - say fifth or sixth.  i do not wish to be in the thousandths rank.  then, once that is accomplished - i shall drink the wine - as you say - should be drunk.  and, at that point will not do anything stupid that i should regret. 

as i see it - the invitations were sent out for this party when Christ came at pentecost to divide up the Holy Spirit.  He said it was a down payment and that more was coming.  He also spoke of crowns, and cities, and joyful triumph of the saints.  but, there is no triumph in small numbers - so, dutifully - i again implore thal, ahinton, and pianolist (and mephisto - and anyone else who might be reading this) to consider baptism a sort of quick dunk and not a drowning.  and, whomever you truly feel has the spirit that you are seeking - for repentance from sin - is who you should have lay hands upon your head when you come up for air.  now, if i understand correctly, mostly men do this in almost all churches except perhaps presbyterian.  if ahinton is needing the assurance that he will come up after going down - i suggest a man to bring him back up to the surface.  we don't want a woman parishner going down trying to bring him up.  i'm not sure what the 'worst case' scenario has ever been for a baptism - but i'd say a near drowining would not be a 'good experience.'  this is not to say that a few women of other faiths wouldn't try to baptize.

typically, i thought God left the physical procreation to women and the spiritual to men.  using Christ as the ultimate role model - and Him coming as a man - and John the Baptist being a man.  and, basically all the other disciples that baptized - as men.  but, in many cases- women can and do run to bat when the men are not around or are few in number.  even in seemingly orthodox places - women fill in if there are less than 10 men.  i haven't seen any revolts.  i think there's a scripture about women not 'teaching men' - but baptism isn't really 'teaching' per se.

[pianolist]

Our alarm went off an hour early, so I might as well stay up.

We have women priests in most divisions of Christianity over here, except the Romans, so a lot of baptisms are done by women. I don't think they drown anyone, or they might be de-frocked. There's a thought!

If you are going to play the piano for God, then you must think there will be pianos in heaven, P? Will there be piano tuners? Or will the pianos be perfect and never need tuning? If you are to play music whose structure you know, then you will need them to be well-tempered. Will there be factories in heaven which make them? Will capitalism be allowed, so that the Steinway name can live on, or will they all be called Paradise Pianos, or something similar?

I'm not mocking you, by the way. You know I'm not, but others may not realise. If I had to choose between a world of intellectual wickedness, and one of (in my terms) unperceiving innocence, I'd plump for the innocent one every time. But then, there is no choice; the real world is a mixture, and many of the apparent innocents are not innocent of violence against others.

[ahinton]

so much ground has been covered!  i see there hasn't been God every minute, either.

One does one's best...

i suppose i should shake some cinnamon over things again.

For baptismal or aphrodisiacal reasons?...

i did laugh about the depth of water and your funny outtakes on life, religion, piano, and triple etudes of chopin.  what bizarre things composers do.  but, i suppose - no more bizarre than what 'religious folk' do.

Not for nothing did Sorabji use the phrase (although I'm not certain if he actually coined it) "composers and other lunatics".

i mean, it's kind of all the same.

Oh, no, susanistimo, it isn't - it REALLY isn't the same at all! For starters, we composers rarely make frequent posts to piano fora that are sprinkled (like your cinnamon) with quotations from, references to and thoughts about verse x from chapter y of WTC or the Études Op. 10.

we just 'ooh and ahh' over different things.  marc andre-hamelin, although genius that he is - is just another ordinary person to me.  i don't put him way up here - but i also wouldn't dare to rub shoulders with him for fear of saying something utterly stupid.  i would - gaze from a distance and always appreciate his playing.

But then no one is suggesting that Marc-André should be accorded deity status (well, not in this thread, anyway). But isn't he one of your near neighbo(u)rs in Philly?

God, on the other hand - whom i want to meet and shake hands with - has got to be one of the most mysterious things (God) i should ever know.  that is why i anxiously await His return.  i want to see Him in the clouds, experience His divinity, feel the reality of the spiritual world that He speaks of as 'seeing through a glass darkly' for us right now, and to be amazed at His ability to allow the deaf to hear, the lame to walk, the blind to see - and for me to finally play the piano perfectly (thus eliminating competition like marc andre-hamelin - or at least evening the score). 

Neatly put, but I don't think that Marc-André believes that he plays "perfectly" at all..

now, this may not seem like a very good reason (being that there might be a tinge of jealousy reeking out of a green puff cloud on one side of my brain.  but, really - it's not competition that i wish to destroy - but rather that i should like to at least be in the running - say fifth or sixth.  i do not wish to be in the thousandths rank.  then, once that is accomplished - i shall drink the wine - as you say - should be drunk.  and, at that point will not do anything stupid that i should regret. 

Yes, it's usually wiser to play the piano first and drink the wine afterwards, les you happen to be Fats Waller...

as i see it - the invitations were sent out for this party when Christ came at pentecost to divide up the Holy Spirit.

Well, I didn't receive one; now whether that is because one was not sent to me as an non-baptised-Christian or because it got lost in the post like not only the proverbial cheque but almost half the mail around these parts these days, I cannot say with certainty.

He said it was a down payment and that more was coming.

OK, so maybe I did get that invitation after all but, since it referred to down payments, I probably chucked it straight in the shredder because I assumed it was yet another of these special offer loan deals, or something of the sort.

He also spoke of crowns, and cities, and joyful triumph of the saints.  but, there is no triumph in small numbers - so, dutifully - i again implore thal, ahinton, and pianolist (and mephisto - and anyone else who might be reading this) to consider baptism a sort of quick dunk and not a drowning.  and, whomever you truly feel has the spirit that you are seeking - for repentance from sin - is who you should have lay hands upon your head when you come up for air.  now, if i understand correctly, mostly men do this in almost all churches except perhaps presbyterian.  if ahinton is needing the assurance that he will come up after going down - i suggest a man to bring him back up to the surface.  we don't want a woman parishner going down trying to bring him up.  i'm not sure what the 'worst case' scenario has ever been for a baptism - but i'd say a near drowining would not be a 'good experience.'  this is not to say that a few women of other faiths wouldn't try to baptize.

My reference to the "not baptising but drowning" scenario was not meant to be taken as seriosuly as you appear to suggest here that you have done; what I meant was that any official of the Christian Church about to "baptise" me would probably feel inclined to use this situation as an opportunity to indulge in a little drowning. When you write that
we don't want a woman parishner going down trying to bring him up
I rather think that you're playing right into Thal's hands for one of those special kind of curt, salacious retorts for which we all know and admire him.
But let's be serious now. Why, in any case, would I want "a quick dunk"? and, even if I did, why would I want someone else to do this for me? and, again, why would such a person have to be an official of the Christian Church? I know that I could be baptised into the Christan faith if I were so minded, but I am also well aware that to ask for and expect this would be dishonest of me, so I would not dream of insulting the Christian Church by doing so. Repentance from sin? Now just how honest would THAT be from me, especially were I to leave the Church building afterwards and then return promptly to my desk to continue work on my latest sin (it's a piano quintet, incidentally).

I know that your motives are well-meaning, susanistimo dear, but it's really a non-starter, I'm afraid; put it down, perhaps, to the fact that, for me, "distance lends enchantment" - by which I do not, of course, mean to imply distance from you, but the kind of distance from formal Christian practice that allows me to be an onlooker but debars me from being a participant.

By the way, since you mention "sin" (show me a preaching Christian that doesn't!), I've often been intrigued by the expression "miserable sinner"; it is intended to distinguish that type of sinner from a happy one with a well developed sense of humour?

To a string player, "sin" is the latter 60% of what he/she treats bow hair with, anyway.

To be serious again for a moment, the customary use of the term "sin" when it emerges, as so often it does, from Christian preachers (especially those of the so-called "born-again" variety) is invariably in a holier-than-thou patronising context; I'm not necessarily suggesting that this is how you use it when addressing others about it, but that kind of use of the word is certainly unpleasantly common parlance.

I wonder if can can ever sprinkle cinnamon over a cappuccino again without thinking of you, susanistimo dear, and your apparently fervent desire for me to be baptised into the Christian faith...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

considering that the 'holy grail' to one of you is the perfect 'double oboe reed' - i'm not surprised by your misreading of baptism and getting it all confused with sprinkling cinnamon over cappuccino.  remember liszt.  he will be your guide.  he had a raving good time - but when all was said and done - he was quite serious at the end of his life about God and religion and not as joking and making fun with the 'mephisto' who rules death.  imo, everyone who comes close to death realizes it's not of God.  sin and death go together like a hand to a glove.  but, if we realize God created man originally good and to live forever - death is a blight.  it is nothing but a temporary thing for those who are baptized into Christ.  it is death that is being overcome!  adam and eve didn't set us up very well.  Christ came and changed the rules of the game...telling us to 'follow' Him.

Christ gave up many things so that we would 'have life...and have it more abundantly.'  if you were to give up composing things that did not fit your belief structure any longer and turned it to praise for God - you might be surprised at how much return you would have in the long run.  i'm not attempting any more proseletizing because i realize this is neither polite nor necessarily wanted by most.  i simply say - the harder way is the right way.  that's from my experience.  Christ usually makes us give up seeking money and fame for righteousness.  although, he allows some to carry on and still 'be rich' with what they share!  Christ was buried by a wealthy man - and so the wealthy man returned the favor.  matt. 27:57 'and when it was evening, there came a rich man from arimathea, named joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus.  this man went to pilate and asked for the body of jesus.  then, pilate ordered it to be given over to him...'

now, even if this man hadn't become a Christian at that time - i believe that by his deeds he would be saved.  obviously he wasn't antagonistic or evil to Christians and instead - went out of his way (as i see you do for people of other faiths) and actually gave to the very people that perhaps were once a sort of distasteful bunch to him.  the parable of the 'good samaritan' is much the same.  noone really knows if the good samaritan was baptized or was doing anything but carrying on his business.  but, it shows that God sees all of our actions - good and bad - and He remembers and even writes down our works.  that our evil works will be burned up and the only ones left will be our obvious 'judgement' of ourselves. 

[pianistimo]

i want to add that i do not believe in salvation by works - but that 'faith without works is dead.'  if a person comes to Christ and begins to work by faith - even that little 'mustard seed' can move a mountain.  and yet, that is because it is God working in us for good.  we, of ourselves can do nothing.  'i can do all things thru Him who strengthens me....'

realizing this is all gibberish to some - i don't wish to make myself unclear about the cinnamon and fanning flames to gibberish.  (or about pianos in heaven - but we'll get to that later)  i believe it is God Himself who gave us our five senses.  and, if smell is a tool for teaching - then the fact that the wise men brought sweet smelling incense of frankencense and myrr (sp?) was an indication that God himself is appeased by smell.  that it represents holiness - as with the 'soothing aromas' of various sorts of sacrifice in the old testament.  we are told in the new testament to present our bodies as a 'living sacrifice'  holy and acceptable to God.  so, when i sprinkle you with cinnamon - it would mean nothing without holy actions.  sorry if this sounds too 'bart simpsonish.'  i'm really quite serious about the qualities of holiness smelling beautiful to God, though.

in proverbs, wisdom is as an enticing woman.  the opposite of a harlot in actions.  wisdom 'calls from on top of the heights beside the way, where the paths meet, she takes her stand (before choices made in life); beside the gates, at the opening to the city, at the entrance of the doors, she cries out:  to you, o men, i call - and my voice is to the sons of men.  o naive ones, discern prudence; and discern wisdom - listen, for i shall speak noble things; and the opening of my lips will produce right things (it does for anyone who asks God for wisdom and uses the bible for a foundation of knowledge).  for my mouth will utter truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips...for wisdom is better than jewels; and all desireable things cannot compare with her.  i, wisdom, dwell with prudence, and i find knowledge and discretion.  the fear of the Lord is to hate evil; pride and arrogance and the evil way, and the perverted mouth, i hate.  counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine.  by me kings reign, and rulers decree justice.  by me princes rule, and nobles, all who judge rightly.


***as i read these passages - i see that a woman's love is so temporary - but God's wisdom is like a woman because a true seduction is one where you actually see something beautiful that you want to obtain or be with and dwell with.  it is not a mirage.  and it is something that makes you feel loved and cared for.  and, also - smells as good as she looks.  in other words, produces the kind of fruit of the tree that it is from LIFE.

i don't claim to have perfection or wisdom, but i have that portion of the Holy Spirit which was granted to me.  so, when i read this passage - i can't help but think of Christ's parable of the kingdom and the table that he is preparing as a 'wedding banquet.'  matt 22 - everyone had an invitation - but some were busy.  so then, he goes into the streets and invites as many has He finds there.  'and they gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.' 

about the pianos - i think that pianos are similar to large harps.  and, who knows if there will be pianos, harps - steinway companies - i don't know.  i do know that revelations mentions a full choir.  a few trumpets.  will we care - at this point?  i don't know.  i think i would.  i think i would ask to be caretaker of the heavenly pianos.  of course, they wouldn't go out of tune!  and, also - i should like to think that they would be dressed in white as everyone else.  but, of course - we'll have to just remember that the black keys used to be black and are now white.  just guessing.  it's all a bit of a joke - as i really haven't a clue what awaits us.  'eye has not seen, nor ear heard - the wonderful things that God has in store for those that love him....'

[thalbergmad]

Your posts might even become readable if they were not 500 pages long.

Perhaps a change in your medication might help.

Thal

[pianowolfi]

i want to add that i do not believe in salvation by works - but that 'faith without works is dead.'  if a person comes to Christ and begins to work by faith - even that little 'mustard seed' can move a mountain.  and yet, that is because it is God working in us for good.  we, of ourselves can do nothing.  'i can do all things thru Him who strengthens me....'

realizing this is all gibberish to some - i don't wish to make myself unclear about the cinnamon and fanning flames to gibberish.  (or about pianos in heaven - but we'll get to that later)  i believe it is God Himself who gave us our five senses.  and, if smell is a tool for teaching - then the fact that the wise men brought sweet smelling incense of frankencense and myrr (sp?) was an indication that God himself is appeased by smell.  that it represents holiness - as with the 'soothing aromas' of various sorts of sacrifice in the old testament.  we are told in the new testament to present our bodies as a 'living sacrifice'  holy and acceptable to God.  so, when i sprinkle you with cinnamon - it would mean nothing without holy actions.  sorry if this sounds too 'bart simpsonish.'  i'm really quite serious about the qualities of holiness smelling beautiful to God, though.

in proverbs, wisdom is as an enticing woman.  the opposite of a harlot in actions.  wisdom 'calls from on top of the heights beside the way, where the paths meet, she takes her stand (before choices made in life); beside the gates, at the opening to the city, at the entrance of the doors, she cries out:  to you, o men, i call - and my voice is to the sons of men.  o naive ones, discern prudence; and discern wisdom - listen, for i shall speak noble things; and the opening of my lips will produce right things (it does for anyone who asks God for wisdom and uses the bible for a foundation of knowledge).  for my mouth will utter truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips...for wisdom is better than jewels; and all desireable things cannot compare with her.  i, wisdom, dwell with prudence, and i find knowledge and discretion.  the fear of the Lord is to hate evil; pride and arrogance and the evil way, and the perverted mouth, i hate.  counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power is mine.  by me kings reign, and rulers decree justice.  by me princes rule, and nobles, all who judge rightly.

i love those who love me; and those who diligently seek me will find me.  riches and honor are with me, enduring wealth and righteousness.  my fruit is better than gold, even pure gold.  and my yield than choicest silver.  i walk in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of justice, to endow those who love me with wealth, that i may fill their treasuries.  the Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, before His works of old.  from everlasting I was established, from the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth (!) when there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water.  before the mountains were settled, before the hills I was brought forth; while He had not yet made the earth and the fields, nor the first dust of the world.  when He established the heavens, I was there.  When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep (no one who closely reads the bible would say the earth is flat), when he made firm the skies above, when the springs of the deep became fixed (springs in the ocean).  when he set for the sea it's boundary, so that the water should not transgress His command. 

when He marked out the foundations of the earth; then I was beside Him, as a master workman; and i was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him, rejoicing in the world, His EARTH, and having my delight in the sons of men (so wisdom and knowledge isn't something we regret having).  now, therefore, o sons, listen to me, for blessed are they who keep my ways.  heed instruction and be wise, and do not neglect it.  blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at my doorposts. for he who finds me finds life, and obtains favor from the Lord. but he who sins against me injures himself; all those who hate me love death.'

***as i read these passages - i see that a woman's love is so temporary - but God's wisdom is like a woman because a true seduction is one where you actually see something beautiful that you want to obtain or be with and dwell with.  it is not a mirage.  and it is something that makes you feel loved and cared for.  and, also - smells as good as she looks.  in other words, produces the kind of fruit of the tree that it is from LIFE.

going on in proverbs 9 - this woman goes out of her way to 'prepare a table'  - 'she has prepared her food she has mixed her wine; she has also set her talbe; she has sent out her maidens, she calls from the tops of the heights of the city; whoever is naive, let him turn in here!  (unlike a prostitute who will cause a man grief)  to him who lacks understanding she says, come, eat of my food and drink of the wine i have mixed.  forsake your folly and live, and proceed in the way of understanding.'

***i don't claim to have all this - but i have that portion of the Holy Spirit which was granted to me.  so, when i read this passage - i can't help but think of Christ's parable of the kingdom and the table that he is preparing as a 'wedding banquet.'  matt 22 - everyone had an invitation - but some were busy.  so then, he goes into the streets and invites as many has He finds there.  'and they gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.' 

about the pianos - i think that pianos are similar to large harps.  and, who knows if there will be pianos, harps - steinway companies - i don't know.  i do know that revelations mentions a full choir.  a few trumpets.  will we care - at this point?  i don't know.  i think i would.  i think i would ask to be caretaker of the heavenly pianos.  of course, they wouldn't go out of tune!  and, also - i should like to think that they would be dressed in white as everyone else.  but, of course - we'll have to just remember that the black keys used to be black and are now white.  just guessing.  it's all a bit of a joke - as i really haven't a clue what awaits us.  'eye has not seen, nor ear heard - the wonderful things that God has in store for those that love him....'

Legendary lol have you founded a company now? With 200 employees who write posts for you 24/7? You might be looking for a name for that company. Well, forumers, let's think about it. Perhaps "The Pianistimo Enlightenment Corporation" or "Bible For Piano Forumers inc." 

[pianistimo]

it did cross my mind to go back and nix half the post - due to the fact this is a piano forum.   ok.  i've said my peace - and eaten 1/4 of the dorito bag.  if there is anything ahinton and i have in common - it's persistence.  well, and a love of music.  i would say that i am not anti- new music or anything.  i feel music is an expression of ourselves, our personalities, and things that impress us that we wish to share.  also, i feel that there is a portion of all of us (at least a 10th) that we should willingly share back with the Creator who made us.  that is the part of us that could, if we wanted, go to church and praise Him.  He enjoys our praise and i think that it makes Him happy He created us when we appreciate all He does.  after all, He is willing to share it all!

[thalbergmad]

Legendary lol have you founded a company now? With 200 employees who write posts for you 24/7? You might be looking for a name for that company. Well, forumers, let's think about it. Perhaps "The Pianistimo Enlightenment Corporation" or "Bible For Piano Forumers inc." 

Yeh, there must be a least 200, all taken from the local mental ward.

Thal

[ahinton]

considering that the 'holy grail' to one of you is the perfect 'double oboe reed' - i'm not surprised by your misreading of baptism and getting it all confused with sprinkling cinnamon over cappuccino.  remember liszt.  he will be your guide.  he had a raving good time - but when all was said and done - he was quite serious at the end of his life about God and religion and not as joking and making fun with the 'mephisto' who rules death.

Liszt is as good a guide to us all in many ways as is anyone else - but please understand (as I thought you already did) that I am not mocking anything to do with religious belief in general or Christian belief in particular. A "double reed" is the kind of reed that oboists (and bassoonists) always use; the search for the perfect one has oft been described by oboists as a quest for "the Holy Grail".

The idea of cinnamon sprinkling and its possible association with the baptismal act was yours and yours alone - I did not bring this up, so I am not "getting confused" about it at all.

imo, everyone who comes close to death realizes it's not of God.  sin and death go together like a hand to a glove.  but, if we realize God created man originally good and to live forever - death is a blight.  it is nothing but a temporary thing for those who are baptized into Christ.  it is death that is being overcome!  adam and eve didn't set us up very well.  Christ came and changed the rules of the game...telling us to 'follow' Him.

Too many people come along and change the rules, especially when they don't happen to like the game or the way it's being played; I'm not suggesting for one moment that Christ did this, however. I did tell you earlier that the products of scientific research will eventually make life and death a lifestyle choice (much as I deprecate that term per se) rather than the inevitability that they are today, so I really cannot bring myself to accept some of the rest of what you say about this.

Christ gave up many things so that we would 'have life...and have it more abundantly.'  if you were to give up composing things that did not fit your belief structure any longer and turned it to praise for God - you might be surprised at how much return you would have in the long run.

Well - in the spirit of "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", may I make to you the entreaty "let she who might wish to see me composing in a more godly manner cast the first composition lesson"? How might you wish me to go about this? And on what basis might you perceive that the way I compose is somehow not as it should be? This is not intended as a combative question but as a literal one, so please answer it as best you can; the better your foreknowledge of my work from which you could quote music examples in illustration of your points in support of your theory, the more credible one may presume it will be.

i'm not attempting any more proseletizing because i realize this is neither polite nor necessarily wanted by most.

Well, I'd not noticed this, but it's a blessed relief to know it!

i simply say - the harder way is the right way.  that's from my experience.

And the way I go about composition is the "easy way", is it? If you really believe that, you know something that I've never known...

Christ usually makes us give up seeking money and fame for righteousness.  although, he allows some to carry on and still 'be rich' with what they share!

Christ never worked for the Performing Rights Society! Have you any idea how hard it is to "give up seeking " money as a composer when there's so little to give up in the first place and such little as there is has in any case to be fought for with no small amount of forceful persistence?

God sees all of our actions - good and bad - and He remembers and even writes down our works.

Can he use Sibelius? If so, I'll be after you for his phone number to ask if he'll act of my editor / copyist.

that our evil works will be burned up and the only ones left will be our obvious 'judgement' of ourselves. 

So do I assume that God knows better than I do about which of my works should be burned or otherwise destroyed due to their general inadequacy? It has famously been said that no one has ever put up a statue to a critic; presumably, no one will therefore put one up to God in his capacity as a music critic...

Best,

Alistair

[donjuan]

post deleted

[pianistimo]

if it makes you any happier - even my children roll their eyes to the bible.  but, i don't really force it on them.  if they ask me something - i'll usually tell them what i think about 'whatever.'  thankfully, my son is past the tattoo days.  he used to say he was going to have at least three girlfriends at a time and get a bunch of tattoos.  this used to make me worry.  i'd try to talk to him occasioanlly (hoping he was joking) and come to find out, he was.  but, i'd tell him these 'what if's'  - like 'what if you accidentally tattooed a girls name and then didn't like her anymore - then you'd have to subtly change the name and it would be more pain all over again.'

now, with my daughter - it's suggestive lyrics to songs.  i say 'do you know what they just said?'  she says 'i'm only listening to the rhythm and just humming.'  'smack dab' has to be my nemesis song - but she's always turning it up in the car.  one day,  (like yesterday) - i finally had enough and said 'i'm not listening to this anymore - and changed it back to the classical station.'  yes.  we may be at the beginning of a long quiet war.  but, at least i say it like it is.  i mean - what guy is treating a girl right in music lyrics.  i keep telling her - 'don't date any guys that don't treat you right.' 

i feel somewhat good about what i say - though - because there's shows on tv with the parents ill at ease with a current boyfriend and telling reasons why.  my daughter doesn't have a boyfriend yet, thankfully - but i'm trying to 'set her up' to know how to pick one.  right now - it's cool and tough that counts.  i think she deserves gentle and nice.   

[pianistimo]

dear ahinton,

i was not really aiming to jab at your compositions or your person at all!  you just mentioned that you don't feel some would set you right with the ministers that baptize - and they might drown you.  i know you were joking.  but, as i see it - we all have this 'inner voice' that is improved upon when you receive the Holy Spirit.  things you don't typically 'see' the first time around.

basically like a composition that you are continually improving and changing a few notes to fit the scheme of things.  as i see it - our lives are compositions - and each day we live determines the notes and the harmonies.  it would be really neat if each one of us was a literal 'song.'

you and don juan are completely right about not being overly concerned with other's lives to the omission of our own perfection (not that it's perfectly achievable in this life).  there are many times i am on the computer too long.  some of it is because i have a lot of work stacked up.  and, some is that my children are a very busy sort.  my five year old, last night, must have pulled every toy out of the toybox whenwe were gone last night to a concert.  i spend many evenings with her during the week -but she also goes out and plays with some of her friends.  she likes to bicycle, too, and is often two or three houses to the right or left playing with her friends. 

mentally, talking about music and God help my outlook as well.  they are two things i am most interested in.  it gives me something to meditate on (whether a musical score or a passage) and prove true or false or just have some kind of opinion about.  this week, being holiday week - i will be at the park, the dentists office, and Kindergarten parent/teacher meetings.  i am never lacking something to do.  oh yes.  and this kindergarten musical.  i'm helping play the piano for it.  yikes.  if i don't do this right - where are my next load of students coming?

[thalbergmad]

if it makes you any happier - even my children roll their eyes to the bible.  but, i don't really force it on them.  if they ask me something - i'll usually tell them what i think about 'whatever.'  thankfully, my son is past the tattoo days.  he used to say he was going to have at least three girlfriends at a time and get a bunch of tattoos.  this used to make me worry.  i'd try to talk to him occasioanlly (hoping he was joking) and come to find out, he was.  but, i'd tell him these 'what if's'  - like 'what if you accidentally tattooed a girls name and then didn't like her anymore - then you'd have to subtly change the name and it would be more pain all over again.'

now, with my daughter - it's suggestive lyrics to songs.  i say 'do you know what they just said?'  she says 'i'm only listening to the rhythm and just humming.'  'smack dab' has to be my nemesis song - but she's always turning it up in the car.  one day,  (like yesterday) - i finally had enough and said 'i'm not listening to this anymore - and changed it back to the classical station.'  yes.  we may be at the beginning of a long quiet war.  but, at least i say it like it is.  i mean - what guy is treating a girl right in music lyrics.  i keep telling her - 'don't date any guys that don't treat you right.' 

i feel somewhat good about what i say - though - because there's shows on tv with the parents ill at ease with a current boyfriend and telling reasons why.  my daughter doesn't have a boyfriend yet, thankfully - but i'm trying to 'set her up' to know how to pick one.  right now - it's cool and tough that counts.  i think she deserves gentle and nice.   

Well that's cleared that question up then .

Thal

[ahinton]

dear ahinton,

i was not really aiming to jab at your compositions or your person at all!  you just mentioned that you don't feel some would set you right with the ministers that baptize - and they might drown you.  i know you were joking.  but, as i see it - we all have this 'inner voice' that is improved upon when you receive the Holy Spirit.  things you don't typically 'see' the first time around.

No, that was not the whole of what I meant. The drowning thing was purely a joke based on the notion that if what the average Christian preacher might perceive as a lost cause - i.e. a composer
like me - came along and requested baptism, he/she might well be irritated into thinking "OK, how big's the face and how much deeper do we have to make the water?". I know you were not seeking to undermine my work as such, but whilst I do not go out of my way to try to be approachable in it, I do not go out of my way to be unapproachable in it either, believing as I do that those who do seek deliberately to do either will likely compromise themsleves. Things that one does not see first time around is a very good point of yours - I experience it all the time about my work, especially in the presence of really gifted and perceptive performers and this is most rewarding. I just cannot get to your notion of some formal "reception of the Holy Spirit" as though this can be achieved by listening to some hot gospeller or being "dunked", as you graphically put it. I do not at all deny the kind of thing of which you write, but the "inner voice" of which you quite correctly write is something that develops - as long as one lets it and encourages it as far as possible - by means of all manner of "receptivity", so for all that one should seek to aspire in what one does, I would be wary of claiming anything about the "reception of the Holy Spirit" in direct relation to what I am trying to do., even if only because this might seem unwarrantably arrogant of me (and I don't do arrogance, folks).

basically like a composition that you are continually improving and changing a few notes to fit the scheme of things.  as i see it - our lives are compositions - and each day we live determines the notes and the harmonies.  it would be really neat if each one of us was a literal 'song.'

I think that in many ways you are not far off the mark here - but, again, I simply cannot equate this kind of questing with contriving some easy acceptance of the proselytising of the preacher who would seek to persuade me that as long as I just go along and accept this and that, salvation will be mine and not otherwise.

mentally, talking about music and God help my outlook as well.  they are two things i am most interested in.  it gives me something to meditate on (whether a musical score or a passage) and prove true or false or just have some kind of opinion about.

That's fine - but I have to tell you that I think (rightly or wrongly) that you have brought yourself to find many things easy - or seemingly so - by the sheer extent of your unquestioning adherence to those aspects of your faith association with which you regale us all with remarkable frequency; I have to admit that I do not find so many things in life so simple to rationalise, accept and promote. I am not, of course, trying to pretend that you do not also have a busy life with your children and other commitments, but then this is not what I am referring to here, which is that I simply cannot just arbitrarily go along to "God" in the allegedly manifest form of some preacher or other and confess my sins, repent and request that thereafter I be made a paid-up life member of the Christian Club. You and "pianowelsh" may well despair - but you surely each have better things to do! That said, I hope that you know - as indeed you shold by now - enough of my views on religion in general and on Christianity and Christians in particular not to take offence at anything I have written here.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Well that's cleared that question up then .

Thal

What question? Where? When? I must have been failing to pay due attention, for I missed that one entirely...

Best,

Alistair

[penguinlover]

God is not something, or someone, you just add to your live.  He is my life.  There is nothing better to do with my time than please Him.  That doesn't mean that I go around preaching or praying all the time, but it give focus on the things I do or don't do.  If I please God, nothing else in this world matters!

[thalbergmad]

What question? Where? When? I must have been failing to pay due attention, for I missed that one entirely...

Best,

Alistair

See Don Juans post a little while back and about 50,000 words back.

Thal

[ahinton]

See Don Juans post a little while back and about 50,000 words back.

Thal

Oh, dear; must I? No disrespect intended to anyone here, but this entire thing has surely gotten so out of hand that it's run past any usefulness that it might ever have had. We know who the principal "God warriors" are on this forum; we also know that the forum is supposedly intended to be dedicated to matters pianistic. May I formally invite "pianistimo", "pianowelsh" and/or any of the other forum members who happen also to be principal members of God's PR company to post examples of His playing of Chopin Op. 10, Alkan Op. 39 - and, of course (since their God is a Christian God) Messiaen's Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant-Jésus and Liszt's Bénédiction de Dieu dans la Solitude - and then forummers can, regardless of their personal beliefs or otherwise, discuss these performances on their own merits and we can all then perhaps begin to consider God as someone other than a "warrior" or some one who has to be represented by "warriors" - for there is surely more than enough war-mongering going on in His name (not that that's His fault, of course) already...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

you surely do make some difficult requests, ahinton.  first, i am seeking to show you an easy step by step process to eliminate the pains of death in your life - and you go on about how shortly it will be a choice.  apparently you are one of those belivers in cryonics or something?!  as far as i see - we're made to die.  our hearts only last so long - and if we were revived in our present state at 100 years or so - we'd shortly die again.  unless you're wanting to have a babies heart transplanted in a 1oo year old body.  but then, what about the brain.  we'd all be 'goo gooing' again at 101.  and crawling around on the floor.  and filling diapers with who knows what kind of mess.  of course, that could already have been a problem. 

no, ahinton, you've got it backwards.  the song, that is.  it is not 'the song that never ends.'  the song - simply ends with 'eghhsaosdfjkasl;fja' i can't breath - gasp.  dead.  although, i'd have to say that alkan was one of the more creatively dying individuals.  i'm abit confused why God would want to play the piano at all - since He could barely fit his feet on the earth as a footstool.  not sure if we can accomodate God fully at the piano.  i'd say - there's no piano big enough for his little finger.  He'd have to return in human form (which He probably will do - come to think of it- so we can see him) stop the trumpet playing - find a decently tuned piano - and then - begin something of bach's or handels.  but, then He'd be 'singing to the choir.'  obviously, if he has a choir already - he doesn't need to sing and play. 

i don't know, ahinton, about you - but i feel that there is no arrogance at all in being simple minded about baptism.  take the fellow in the bible (naaman?) that was plaged with leprosy.  he was told to go wash seven times in the jordan.  he didn't want to and did pretty much everything but that.  his servants suggested he do as he was told - so grudgingly he went.  sure enough.  a miracle happened and he was cured.  strange as it seems - simple things can lead to amazing results.  the only time one might be arrogant is if they thought they found the 'cure' themselves.  the cure for death, that is.

[donjuan]

as far as i see - we're made to die.

at my uncle's funeral yesterday, the preacher at the podium told us that it's all Eve's fault we die because she ate the apple and created a 'genetic defect' to pass on to all humans.

of course, the preacher was an idiot -he said death is the same thing as sleep.  and he said this directly to my 6 and 9 year old cousins about their daddy, which really pissed me off.

I'm all for looking tragedy in the face rather than lying to little girls.

[pianistimo]

people told me my dad 'fell asleep' too - and from there on out for a few years i had some serious sleep disturbances.  i think you have to be careful - as you say - what you say.  espeically if they don't understand LITERAL sleep with death sleep.  the bible does say that there is a ressurrection of the dead.  thus = a period of death - rather than a perpetual state of death.  but, to explain this to 6 and 9 year olds who just lost their father and might be a bit anxious to see him again - i'd probably say 'you won't be seeing your father again in this life - unless Jesus Christ himself returns in our lifetime.  but, you can rest assured that Jesus Christ will now be your real Father as well as your spiritual Father.' 

this does not negate your love, though, don juan.  i'm so sorry to hear of the death -especially for such young girls.  seemingly, we can turn bad situations into good by extending ourselves beyond what we thought we had time for.  i'd show up occasionally and take them out - and do stuff with them.  go to their volleyball games, whatever!  cheer them on.  they'll need it.  ps how did your uncle pass away?

[donjuan]

this does not negate your love, though, don juan.  i'm so sorry to hear of the death -especially for such young girls.  seemingly, we can turn bad situations into good by extending ourselves beyond what we thought we had time for.  i'd show up occasionally and take them out - and do stuff with them.  go to their volleyball games, whatever!  cheer them on.  they'll need it.  ps how did your uncle pass away?

thanks for your support susan.  It has indeed been a terrible week for my whole family and I.  I don't know what it is with families and wanting to be together when we lose a family member; personally, I just wanted to be alone so I could try to concentrate on something else..

What ripped my heart out was that at the funeral, my little cousins placed a few of their toys inside the coffin along with a picture of them hugging their daddy.

He was only 43, and on Nov. 10 he was having dinner with his mom; on Nov. 11, he was violently ill (he thought it was stomach flu); on Nov. 12, he was dead. 

We still don't know what he died from; the medical examiner has to do some toxicology tests and we wont get results for 3-4 months.

As for his girls, they are so young they don't grieve like adults grieve.  You should have seen them on the day their father died; they were telling jokes from school and happy they don't have to go to class the next day.  And at the funeral home yesterday, they were playing tag in the banquet hall.  I dont think they will really miss their father until they grow up a bit.

[ahinton]

first, i am seeking to show you an easy step by step process to eliminate the pains of death in your life - and you go on about how shortly it will be a choice.  apparently you are one of those belivers in cryonics or something?!  as far as i see - we're made to die.

That's very kind of you to do that - really, it is - but what are these "pains of death" of which you write? At the moment, I am not dead (otherwise it would almost certainly be very difficult for me to type this) and, as far as I can tell, I am not suffering in the throes of impending death (although one cannot currently know for certain, of course, when the latter may occur). Cryogenics is certainly one possibility, but it was not this that I had in mind. Medical research has made many advances over the years; one effect of these has been increased life expectancy in certain parts of the world. Of course it is - and will remain - vital that any continuing research that further extends human lifespan must accommodate the need to ensure that the life so extended is worth having - i.e. that one is not merely enabled to survive but to live - actively, profitably and meaningfully, including continuing to work, for those who choose to. Organ replacement has done much to extend lifespan but remains severaly problematic (albeit less so than in its early days); stem cell research may well turn out in due course to be of considerably greater significance in the ways that it may enable organs, tissue, nerves, etc. to repair themselves and protect themslevs against damage and deterioration, rather than having to be replaced in various forms of "spare part" surgery. So - I am writing not about putting people in the freezer and thawing them out years later but about the business of working towards the goal of delaying, stalling and eventually preventing the deterioration of human physical form that you and I and everyone else has so far had to take for granted. Of course, if and when this becomes successful and widespread, it will create many potential problems of population numbers, space, etc. - but then humanity has always been faced with monumental problems and it will be up to humanity to set about resolving these, just as has been the case with all the problems that have beset it in the past.

no, ahinton, you've got it backwards.  the song, that is.  it is not 'the song that never ends.'  the song - simply ends with 'eghhsaosdfjkasl;fja' i can't breath - gasp.  dead.

What, precisely, have I "got" "backwards"? I presume you to be suggesting some kind of anaolgy beween a song and a lifespan - not an unreasonable thing to do, in some ways, perhaps -  but, as I implied earlier, whereas human life still has a "span" at present, our expectations of it - at least in the wealthier parts of the world - have already increased and there may be no limit to the increase in those expectations or to their eventually being met in reality. I think that you assume that human life must by definition have a limited span, regardless of the advances of medical science and I suspect that your stance on this is largely, if not entirely, down to your interpretations of your religious beliefs which you find impossible to reconcile with the notion of unending human life ("threescore years and ten" and all that - try telling that one to the still-working Elliott Carter who is due to reach age 98 in just three weeks' time).

although, i'd have to say that alkan was one of the more creatively dying individuals.

You just would have to say it, wouldn't you?! I know what you mean by this, of course, but the story of how Alkan met his death is just that - a story, wholly unsubstantiated and now of legendary status, notwithstanding the efforts of Alkan scholars to debunk it! Just be careful about taking books down from the top shelf and don't ever keep any of your Bibles up there (not that I could ever really imagine you being prepared to keep a Bible that far from you at any time, mind...).

i don't know, ahinton, about you

No, very probably not - but I really wouldn't let this worry you too much if I were you!

i feel that there is no arrogance at all in being simple minded about baptism.

But I did not say that there was or is; please have another look at the context in which I placed the word "arrogant" to observe exactly what I did say. The only thing that I find "simple minded about baptism" here is the apparent notion that anyone can just go and be "dunked" by a Christian minister, vicar, priest or what you will, in order that some miracle will have occurred such as the one you mention as having occurred to the leper in the Bible story below; life - however long or short - just ain't that simple...

and take the fellow in the bible (naaman?) that was plaged with leprosy.  he was told to go wash seven times in the jordan.  he didn't want to and did pretty much everything but that.  his servants suggested he do as he was told - so grudgingly he went.  sure enough.  a miracle happened and he was cured.  strange as it seems - simple things can lead to amazing results.  the only time one might be arrogant is if they thought they found the 'cure' themselves.  the cure for death, that is.

We don't all live near that river - and I'd seriously recommend discouraging anyone from trying this in the Thames. But, seriously - this is potentially dangerous talk. If taken literally and applied without discretion, what you write here might be seen as tantamount to accusing all successful medical researchers as arrogant in claiming that they have discovered the means to cure or alleviate any disease. Yes, of course, it could perhaps be argued that the requisite knowledge to enable such effects is a pre-existing resource just waiting for medical researchers to use their powers of reasoning to tap into it and make their discoveries - rather as Busoni (a human visionary if ever there was one) suggested that there is no such thing as "new" music as such, only music out there waiting to be discovered and communicated - a notion that prompted him to suggest the term "diviner" rather than "composer" as more appropriate for those who practise the art which I practise. Nevertheless, humans work with the resources around them in nature. It is indeed folly to try to defy nature completely, but to work in ever-increasing harmony with it (as the best medical researchers and others do) is surely a potentially beneficial thing for humanity as a whole.

I am genuinely happy that your baptised state gives you positive feelings about things, as long as you try at the same time not to let it prevent you from bringing yourself to recognise that humanity, by definition, embraces an infinite variety of beliefs, thought processes, desires, aspirations, emotions, as well as the constant metamorphoses of all of these, just as nature itself is an ever-developing thing; at present, you seem not to do this, preferring instead to try to put finite limits on the infinite (if you'll pardon my saying so) by giving out inflexible recipes for life in the guise of nuggets of religious truth. We are, in other words, not all the same; recalling the words of a once popular music-hall song that claimed that "we all go the same way home", the composer Delius once wrote about the various dance crazes in the years immedately following the end of WWI, "Dixie, Duncan, Dalcroze, Dyaghilev: we don't all dance the same way home!". And please don't grasp this statement to justify trying to persuade me to go salsa-ing and tango-ing, susanistimo, dear, for the results of that would almost certainly be more infinitely disastrous even than having me "dunked" by one of your preachers!...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

at my uncle's funeral yesterday, the preacher at the podium told us that it's all Eve's fault we die because she ate the apple and created a 'genetic defect' to pass on to all humans.

of course, the preacher was an idiot -he said death is the same thing as sleep.  and he said this directly to my 6 and 9 year old cousins about their daddy, which really pissed me off.

I'm all for looking tragedy in the face rather than lying to little girls.

How disgusting! I cannot imagine how the person who conducted your uncle's funeral ever got to be a preacher in the first place with sentiments like that. If I were you, I'd almost feel inclined to sue. This would have been utterly irresponsible - as well as wholly tasteless - behaviour at the best of times; foisting it on you and other bereaved members of your family at a time of particular vulnerability serves only to make it far worse.

I am very sorry both to hear your news and to learn that you and your family have been so gravely insulted, especially since this insult originated with one who is supposed to be a servant of a religious faith.

Best,

Alistair

[jpianoflorida]

Oh, dear; must I? No disrespect intended to anyone here, but this entire thing has surely gotten so out of hand that it's run past any usefulness that it might ever have had. We know who the principal "God warriors" are on this forum; we also know that the forum is supposedly intended to be dedicated to matters pianistic. May I formally invite "pianistimo", "pianowelsh" and/or any of the other forum members who happen also to be principal members of God's PR company to post examples of His playing of Chopin Op. 10, Alkan Op. 39 - and, of course (since their God is a Christian God) Messiaen's Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant-Jésus and Liszt's Bénédiction de Dieu dans la Solitude - and then forummers can, regardless of their personal beliefs or otherwise, discuss these performances on their own merits and we can all then perhaps begin to consider God as someone other than a "warrior" or some one who has to be represented by "warriors" - for there is surely more than enough war-mongering going on in His name (not that that's His fault, of course) already...

Best,

Alistair

while i totally agree with you that this has gotten out of hand.....  it is in the "anything but piano" section...    What we should do(I'm talking about myself as well) is just ignore the threads we don't care about....and leave them to others to discuss.

[pianistimo]

i had no idea eliott carter was still carrying on at 98.  more power to him, i guess.  and forgive me for bringing up alkan.  sometimes i do stir the pot - just to tease you.  you have to admit - you do a lot of teasing too, alistair.  amidst all this teasing - you are right.  i will never see death as something overcome by anything but Jesus sacrifice for our 'death' to be a temporary 'sleep' as don juan put it.  of course, for children to comprehend 'sleep' in this matter is nigh impossible.  i remember attempting to stay awake all night whenever possible after the death of my father (at 2).  noone really knew about it - or figured that one out.  i do remember going to a church and being handed a nightlight in church school and thinking that was a really great thing.  odd things one remembers about childhood!

ok.  here's why i think the way i do.  i peter3:21 goes on about noah - where 8 people were brought safely through the water (you may not believe this - but i do) then 'corresponding to that, baptism now saves you - not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the ressurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.'

vs 18 is interesting, too 'for Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.'

the effect of this baptism, agreed, is not instantaneous.  but, we cease to find pleasure in the typical things this world offers.  perhaps you have already.  i think you're a case by yourself - and quite a loving person.  'therefore since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has sufferred in the flesh has ceased from sin, so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.'

now, i don't consider you lustful man in your own right.  perhaps the only things you seemingly lust for would be more stave paper and ink.  also, you have a good lust for musical facts and composition practices.  i don't thing God is bothered by this.  what happened in my own life was a realization that God thinks differently than we do.  we can set goals (which are all good and right) - but sometimes he changes them.  say, we're going off to a piano lesson (me) and see someone in an accident.  do we drive by and go to the lesson and forget the person who is hurt?  obviously no.  and many people think like this already.  having kindness in their heart.  but where does this care come from directly?  God!  he wants us to put other humans in front of temporary objects such as pianos and paper.  especially if they are in need.  i speak to myself more than you - because at times i have been known to practice the piano through all kinds of howls and crying.  it sort of depends upon 'the cup being full or empty.' 

as i see it - we refill this 'coffee cup' of the Holy Spirit in the morning by prayer and study.  this morning - i drank my fill of the story about jeremiah telling baruch (the scribe) to write a bunch of stuff down.  then, it gets told to everyone.  everyone thinks that the king should hear it (being that it is words that are inspired by God to tell the people) - and the king takes a pen knife and slices it up and uses it for his fireplace kindling.  so, then, of course, jeremiah and baruch are in trouble and have to go hide.  while hiding, baruch is forced to write the whole durn thing over again - and add the bit about the king's deeds and why it's not going to be so good for him after this.  the king, in fact, will never again have a man on the throne that is from his bloodline.  why do i tell you this?  i don't know.  i really haven't a clue why i try so hard with you alistair.  i think it is because you show seeming interest by answering this thread - only to be as stubborn as my own son when it comes to 'seeing God.'  my son was three and when he went out on the patio table and stood at his highest - he said 'i don't see God.'  therefore, from that day on church and God were nonexistent.  someday, I say!

[ahinton]

i had no idea eliott carter was still carrying on at 98.  more power to him, i guess.

Indeed!

and forgive me for bringing up alkan.  sometimes i do stir the pot - just to tease you.

I wasn't aware that you were stirring anything, actually: I had merely assumed - incorrectly, as now it would seem - that you did not realise that the tale of Alkan's demise courtesy of a certain heavy religious tome other than the Christian Bible is as mythical as the Scottish castle in which Sorabji was once said to have lived.

i will never see death as something overcome by anything but Jesus sacrifice for our 'death' to be a temporary 'sleep' as don juan put it.

We know well what you believe here - and that's fine for you, of course - but do you assume and/or expect such belief to be universally applicable, in the sense and to the extent that Christ's "sacrifice" and its relevance to and effect on individual human deaths applies equally to Muslims, Sikhs, Jews, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Hindus, atheists, etc., as well as to those who just happen to be non-subsribers to any specific religious group? - for, if so, that sounds to me to be all too uncomfortably indicative of a contention that the Christians are the only ones with the right answers on this subject.

here's why i think the way i do.  i peter3:21 goes on about noah - where 8 people were brought safely through the water (you may not believe this - but i do) then 'corresponding to that, baptism now saves you - not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the ressurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.'

vs 18 is interesting, too 'for Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.'

I know that you believe this, whereas I do not claim to be in any position to be able to believe or disbelieve it, but what I do believe is that it's all completely Christ-specific, so it seems to me either that it is applicable only to those Christians like you who believe the whole of this or that you are using your belief as an excuse to seek to foist it all on everyone else as though it applies universally (see above).

the effect of this baptism, agreed, is not instantaneous.

Oh. How long does it take, then? And is its effective time-frame different for Christians than it is for non-Christians? and are there any other factors affecting that time-frame?

but, we cease to find pleasure in the typical things this world offers.  perhaps you have already.  i think you're a case by yourself

I think that we all find things that are pleasurable and things that are not among the many things that "this world offers"; I think also that we are all "cases by ourselves".

now, i don't consider you lustful man in your own right.  perhaps the only things you seemingly lust for would be more stave paper and ink.

Thank you, but I have to tell you that, instead of "lusting after" such things ,I tend to purchase good quality plain paper and then print on it from my computer whatever staff systems I want at any given moment; likewise, I tend to buy ink rather than lust after it.

also, you have a good lust for musical facts and composition practices.  i don't thing God is bothered by this.

I'm quite certain that He isn't!

what happened in my own life was a realization that God thinks differently than we do.  we can set goals (which are all good and right) - but sometimes he changes them.

We none of think alike anyway. And how does God "change" goals that we set ourselves? Where's the evidence for that? Does He only do this for those who believe in Him? - or is it only possible for those who believe in Him to recognise that he does this and how He does it?

say, we're going off to a piano lesson (me) and see someone in an accident.  do we drive by and go to the lesson and forget the person who is hurt?  obviously no.  and many people think like this already.  having kindness in their heart.  but where does this care come from directly?  God!  he wants us to put other humans in front of temporary objects such as pianos and paper.

Again, whilst I do not doubt your belief in what your God wants, were you to be taken literally here it would be necessary to extrapolate from it your contention that those who do not believe in God, as well as those of other religious persuasions who see God differently to the way that you do, can accordingly have no kindness in their hearts. You don't really believe that, do you?

i speak to myself more than you

I must confess that sometimes it does rather feel abit like that!

i really haven't a clue why i try so hard with you alistair.

Perhaps it's because it is you, rather than I, that are the stubborn one!

i think it is because you show seeming interest by answering this thread - only to be as stubborn as my own son when it comes to 'seeing God.'  my son was three and when he went out on the patio table and stood at his highest - he said 'i don't see God.'  therefore, from that day on church and God were nonexistent.  someday, I say!

My inability literally to "see" God (as you, "pianowelsh" and others put it) has nothing whatsoever to do with any stubbornness on my part; indeed, far from being "stubborn" in this, I have an open mind and also do not claim that my views are "right" - merely that they are my views. Perhaps it's just because my sight is not as good as I'd like it to be! But to return to being serious, it's pretty clear to me that, for reasons best known to yourself, you have convinced yourself that I do not believe in God; I'm not sure if you've ever bothered to notice, but, although I admit to having stated that I am unable literally to "see" God, I have never, anywhere on this forum, actually stated that I do not believe in God, so I must conclude that, like so much else in these matters, you have taken it upon yourself to decide that I do not believe in God despite having no evidence one way or the other about my beliefs or otherwise.

Susanistimo, dear - DO please stop troubling yourself with this on my behalf and go and do some piano practice; be a piano warrior and fight for Alkan! (I know he was Jewish, but he was a wonderful piano composer too!)...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

fight for alkan.  what do you take me as?  i would rather die fighting for God.  but, i see your point about assumptions.  forgive me on that one! 

well, off to the dentist.  checking those four wisdom teeth holes in my son's mouth.  he seems to be in much better spirits with them out.  i think his teeth were so crowded that he was experiencing some kind of tension from his teeth.  now, they have room. 

well, rambling aside - i did hear a rather interesting composition you might want to know about.  it was by behzad ranjbaran (born in 1955) and was incredibly amazing!  it's inception was in 2000 and the name of the piece is 'seven passages.'  if you haven't heard it - you might want to.  the orchestration is truly amazing, too. 

[ahinton]

fight for alkan.  what do you take me as?

I don't "take" you at all, susanistimo, dear! You are susanistimo already, so there's no need. But, to try to answer your question literally, I suppose that I could say that I'd not "take you" as either a Jew or a Frenchwoman (let alone a French Lieutenant's woman - oh, forget that bit!)

i would rather die fighting for God.

But we don't want you to die fighting for anyone, susanistimo! Apart from any other considerations, who'd fill your shoes on Pianostreet?

but, i see your point about assumptions.  forgive me on that one!

No need to "forgive" anything!

well, off to the dentist.  checking those four wisdom teeth holes in my son's mouth.  he seems to be in much better spirits with them out.  i think his teeth were so crowded that he was experiencing some kind of tension from his teeth.  now, they have room. 

Good luck!

well, rambling aside - i did hear a rather interesting composition you might want to know about.  it was by behzad ranjbaran (born in 1955) and was incredibly amazing!  it's inception was in 2000 and the name of the piece is 'seven passages.'  if you haven't heard it - you might want to.  the orchestration is truly amazing, too.

Thanks. I've not heard of the work or its composer, so I'll try to check it out. Do I presume this to be a complete change of subject, or does the work have some connection with what you've been writing about here?

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

oh dear, alistair.  you lead me on.  why do you yet ask another question?  it is as if you want to drain it all from me.  i shall be a heap on the floor if you continue. 

i accidentally thought my son had a 1:15 appointment - but it is now apparent it is at 2:30 - so i am 'whitterring' again - as thal so politely puts it. 

ok.  what i liked about this piece of ranjbaran's is that it is #1 inspired by a poem (an epic poem at that - which i tend to love - whether real to life or not) #2 has incredible creativity #3 has unusual instrumentation.  now, it is very unclear as to who delivers this 'rostam' from the encounters he has with 'wild beasts, witches, demons, and dragons' - but if it is a true deliverance - that's all we care about at this point.  rostam, the hero of the book, goes through seven trials.  throughout these trials, rostam emergest triumphant.  the story depicts life with all it's pain, joy, triumph, tragedy, and struggle.  you can hear it very well in the music!  and, at a certain point i heard a bit of saint-saens influence as well. 

i really  liked the creativity of this man - and do not usually judge things from a 'strict' baptist convention performance standard when going to public concerts.  i just liked it.  that's all i can say.  perhaps i was moved by the wrong spirit - but it was effective to moving passion and quite descriptive.  i tend to have an overactive imagination - so perhaps it was not so good for me in the long run.  i wanted to stay and hear it over and over.  i cannot say that for very many 'new compositions' although i hope you hear that from some of those who heard your work.  amazingly this work was much shorter than i was envisioning.  i think 14 minutes total.  but it sounded like at least 20 minutes.  how can that be?  it was gripping.  lots of action.

[ahinton]

oh dear, alistair.  you lead me on. 

Er - no, pianistimo, dear; I do not "lead" you anywhere...

why do you yet ask another question?  it is as if you want to drain it all from me.  i shall be a heap on the floor if you continue.

Pianistimo, I do not seek to drain anything from anyone - still less to leave anyone as a heap on the floor; any question that I may ever have asked of you will have ben prompted solely by remarks that you have yourself made. If any of my music has that kind of effect on any of its listeners, well - but then who says that it might do so?...

ok.  what i liked about this piece of ranjbaran's is that it is #1 inspired by a poem (an epic poem at that - which i tend to love - whether real to life or not) #2 has incredible creativity #3 has unusual instrumentation.  now, it is very unclear as to who delivers this 'rostam' from the encounters he has with 'wild beasts, witches, demons, and dragons' - but if it is a true deliverance - that's all we care about at this point.  rostam, the hero of the book, goes through seven trials.  throughout these trials, rostam emergest triumphant.  the story depicts life with all it's pain, joy, triumph, tragedy, and struggle.  you can hear it very well in the music!  and, at a certain point i heard a bit of saint-saens influence as well.

OK - well, since I know nothing of this material so far, I will take what you sy in good faith (yes, dear susanistimo, I do actually happen top know what "faith" is...).

i really  liked the creativity of this man - and do not usually judge things from a 'strict' baptist convention performance standard when going to public concerts.

Thank God - yes, pianistimo, "God"(!") - for that...

i just liked it.  that's all i can say.  perhaps i was moved by the wrong spirit - but it was effective to moving passion and quite descriptive.  i tend to have an overactive imagination - so perhaps it was not so good for me in the long run.  i wanted to stay and hear it over and over.  i cannot say that for very many 'new compositions' although i hope you hear that from some of those who heard your work.  amazingly this work was much shorter than i was envisioning.  i think 14 minutes total.  but it sounded like at least 20 minutes.  how can that be?  it was gripping.  lots of action.

I can't say about this kind of thing - except, perhaps, that I am always relieved when (as, for example, following Jonathan Powell's recent première of my Sequentia Claviensis) people tell me that they think that what they have been listening to seemed to occupy far less a duration than actually it did in real time - and, by the way, you might (or might not!) like to know that, at the end of the score of that particular work of mine, I wrote "In Nomine Patris, Fi...(even as a Baptist - if that's what you are - you know the rest...)...because that's simply what had to be written at the end of that score. Please do not trouble yourself to ask for any explanation...

Best,

Alistair