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Topic: John Field - any other composers with a similar style?  (Read 2709 times)

Offline kwtam338

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John Field - any other composers with a similar style?
on: November 14, 2006, 03:09:09 PM
Hi

I've fallen in love with John Field's nocturnes. I wonder if there are other composers who have a similar style? I am particularly interested in easier pieces ie around ABRSM grade 6.

Yes, I already learnt that Chopin did not create the genre, Field did.

Thanks in advance.

Offline Goldberg

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Re: John Field - any other composers with a similar style?
Reply #1 on: November 14, 2006, 07:55:49 PM
I don't have time to recommend specific pieces, but figured I might as well suggest that you look into Moscheles, Hummel (actually, I'll go ahead and mention the Rondo Favori in Eb major, a smashing piece!), Henri Herz, Kullak, Kalkbrenner, Pixis, and some Czerny. Don't expect to find too many nocturne imitations in the works of those composers, but you'll probably find some relationships with them and Field's general style.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: John Field - any other composers with a similar style?
Reply #2 on: November 14, 2006, 10:28:18 PM
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Offline desordre

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Re: John Field - any other composers with a similar style?
Reply #3 on: November 14, 2006, 11:54:17 PM
Dear Thal:
Excuse me for what follows, but I really don't understand your point. Or I do, and have to disagree 100%.

(...)"after Beethoven, before Liszt, when not much was happening"(...)

When you wrote this I thought: there is no such a period of time. The last significative work by Ludwig was composed in 1824 (the Bagatelles opus 126; the very last works are from the next year: Waltz WoO 85, Ecossaise Woo 86). In this period, Liszt was composing: his Variations on Diabelli Walzer are from 1822. Maybe you discard this work, because he was eleven years old. Anyway, in 1825 he published his opus 01 (the Eight Variations).
So, there was nothing happening between them because this frame of time doesn't exist. Even if you want to consider a more developed, artistic, meaningful composition by Liszt than the forementioned, in 1834 he composed his Harmonies poétiques et religieuses. At best we're talking about a decade, and if that is your point, what about the hundreds of piano music composed and published during that period? I know that you're not a Schumann fan, but just to mention another composer, there is Chopin's opus 10 (published in 1833).
Again, sorry for the controversial point of view. Anyway, I really look forward for your opinion about this.
Best wishes!

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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: John Field - any other composers with a similar style?
Reply #4 on: November 15, 2006, 10:04:27 AM
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Offline desordre

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Re: John Field - any other composers with a similar style?
Reply #5 on: November 15, 2006, 04:40:34 PM
 Dear Thal:
 Why do you consider a waste of time looking for information? In my opinion, it's kind of fundamental thing. Anyway, if you don't care about this, it's up to you. Again, anyway, I cant' understand your point, because there is no hole between Classical and Romantic.
 The label "classical" refering to the Viennese Classical Style was not a common sense until the 1830's, when the aesthetics of Romanticism were firmly planted. By the way, classical is retrospective: a composer never thought that he was composing "classical" music, due to modesty at least. Mozart, by the way, was considered romantic by many in the early 19th century.
 Field, that is our matter here, is a romantic composer. Why consider him something else?
 Best!

 P.S.: Please, notice that I don't want neither to change your point of view, nor to say you're wrong: just want to understand your thoughts about this period. Nothing personal at all.
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: John Field - any other composers with a similar style?
Reply #6 on: November 15, 2006, 05:30:36 PM
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Offline ahinton

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Re: John Field - any other composers with a similar style?
Reply #7 on: November 15, 2006, 06:10:48 PM
Because you have added nothing to the original topic or help the person that started this thread.

All you have done is to decimate a simple sentence i made in a light hearted attempt to describe a group of composers. If you were trying to look clever, you have failed.

You have assisted nobody.

Thal
Hey - cool down a little, Thal, mon cher! I don't think that anyone was trying to take your sentence out and shoot it for the sake of it, but it seems to me that the real crux of the issue here is, in any case, not just about the dates themselves (with which I am not disagreeing, by the way) but about the fact that the "Romantic" movement in music did not just neatly follow on from the Classical" one as day follows night; not only did they overlap, but the later music of just one composer alone - Beethoven - surely straddles the two and that of Alkan, for all its forward-thinking ways, retains especially strong links with the "Classical" era (more so and more frequently, for example, than that of his near-contemporaries Chopin, Schumann and Liszt).

To return to the topic per se, however, I'm quite sure that you can give plentiful insights here, as the piano music of the first half of the 19th century is a subject that's obviously dear to you and of which you clearly have considerable knowledge.

Over to you!..

Best,

Alistair
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Offline desordre

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Re: John Field - any other composers with a similar style?
Reply #8 on: November 15, 2006, 08:45:07 PM
 Dear Thal:
 Please, don't take me this bad. I am not "trying to look clever" by no means: I just did want to understand your point of view. I don't think that music history is a closed book, and when someone (especially someone I do respect, besides the gratitude I have to you) say something that contradicts what I know/think/believe I really want to figure out why. As I wrote earlier, there is nothing personal and I don't think that I can change your view (nor I think that is important).
 About your complain, quoted in Mr. Hinton's post ("Because you have added nothing to the original topic or help the person that started this thread. All you have done is to decimate a simple sentence i made in a light hearted attempt to describe a group of composers. If you were trying to look clever, you have failed. You have assisted nobody. Thal"), I think that our discussion is directly related to the topic. Mr(s). Kwtam is interested in this repertory, and as far as I can see, s/he is a begginer, so why don't "waste our time" talking about the surroundings of this?
 Anyway, I don't want to argue anymore. Just apologize for anything that you shall understand in the wrong way.
 Best wishes!

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Offline pianistimo

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Re: John Field - any other composers with a similar style?
Reply #9 on: November 15, 2006, 09:11:06 PM
i'm not sure about this 'point' controversy - as all i see is little dots. 

faure's nocturnes, to me, seems quite similar to john field's.  i think i played the fourth nocturne - but it's more than grade six.  i printed out john field's nocturne op. 33 #2 with the intention of memorizing it.  it's a beautiful gem.  i was curious what made chopin so interested in the genre - and now i see.  john field was really great! 

debussy comes to mind, also.  they all seem to gravitate at times to five or six sharps.  egads! to grade 6.  but, it's good sightreading and probably exactly what grade sixers need.  i'm so frustrated right now.  i have binder stealers in my house.  i had all my graded repertoire in a black binder.  now - who knows where it is.

ok - i found torp's handy graded syllabus - and grade six has some gems of mendelssohn (cappricio in a minor, op. 33 #1), songs without words op. 85 #2 and #5, poulenc's movements perpetuels no 1, oswald !! several nocturnes from op. 6 (says highly poetic and romantic), respighi notturno !!  (wonderful, lyrical pieces, much closer to grieg's notturno in form and feeling than chopin's or fields - but still same type of idea), britten notturno,  chaminade (one of my favorites) nocturne op. 165 (although this says grade 9). 

Offline kwtam338

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Re: John Field - any other composers with a similar style?
Reply #10 on: November 16, 2006, 10:26:53 AM
... look into Moscheles, Hummel (actually, I'll go ahead and mention the Rondo Favori in Eb major, a smashing piece!), Henri Herz, Kullak, Kalkbrenner, Pixis, and some Czerny...
Thanks for the reply although I can't find free scores for those composers  :-\

ok - i found torp's handy graded syllabus - and grade six has some gems of mendelssohn (cappricio in a minor, op. 33 #1), songs without words op. 85 #2 and #5, poulenc's movements perpetuels no 1, oswald !! several nocturnes from op. 6 (says highly poetic and romantic), respighi notturno !! (wonderful, lyrical pieces, much closer to grieg's notturno in form and feeling than chopin's or fields - but still same type of idea), britten notturno, chaminade (one of my favorites) nocturne op. 165 (although this says grade 9).

Thanks for this. Very useful info. Mendelssohn, Poulenc, Grieg - these are more familiar names to me!!!
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