Really great, I am deeply impressed by the subtlety of your playing! You know, this piece is one of the most maltreated piano pieces one can think of. So I'm quite fearful whenever someone threatens to play this But what pleasing surprise hearing your wonderful performance!I'm very curious about your "rules", which - surprisingly - seem really to work.Could you tell more about it?
I have understood that you have no problem in controlling your dynamics (I wish to say the same about myself and my students but have no reason for such a statement. I, and all my students, of course, have a lot of problems with dynamics. And the more of them we solve - the more others we see behind solved ones. This is my reason of being here).
I am specializing not in Dynamics but in "Microdynamics". I want to know relations between any pair of neghboring notes: which of them is louder or softer in comparison to the next and previous ones. If we will compare our notes with shingles on the roof - I want to know exactly: which side of each shingle should be "above" and which side should be "under". You know that roof will be leaking if order of these "over" and "under" is wrong. Exactly the same we can see/hear in music: music is ugly and boring, if wrong notes are stressed or softened.
If you do not see any problem for you on this field, tell me, please about the first 20 notes of "Fur Elise": which one of these 20 do you stress and which one do you soften? I will even more appreciate if you will tell me the same about first 20 notes in my recording that I attached here. In this case I will be able to compare your version with the another one that is in my head.
"Our Teachers" tought us right notes and more/less right timing. However, they usually did not know the way to correct bad phrasing and wrong stressing and softenning of the notes.
As far as know, only method "play like I play" was used.
Would you like to hear from me even one single time accentuation like " i AM li-VING in TO-ron TO"or "pa-RYS is A ve - RY beau -TI -ful CA-pi-TAL of France" etc. I am tired of listening even from CDs and Broadcasting the same accentuations in music (it is questionable definition of this noise, of course). I prefer to use right stressing and softening "every time I play it"
Your "wrong" example sounds somewhat funny to me, since the accentuation, you give for "Für Elise" is pretty similar to it" i AM li-VING in TO-ron TO"E- D#+ E D#+ E B- D C+ A You have syncopated accents throughout these 9 notes. exept for the B D
Yesterday I had no way to prove that you are wrong. Fortunately, a few minutes ago I read literally fantastic (for me, at least) post of Marik in "Performance" section. (About my performance of "Fur Elise"). Read it a.s.a.p., please!!!
Now you have only two options:1st. You have to say that my way to play this melody of "Fur Elise" is disgusting for your ear and (the best variant) suggest your own, the better one (post it here, in Audition Room for comparison).
2nd. You have to admit that your "theoretical image" of this song in your head has nothing in common with the real one. That your teachers gave you wrong conception of "right accentuation". That you are teaching your students "wrong accentuation" as well.
A lot of musicians know this, often say about this but never write. Because all of them are scared of idots, who have right to dictate teachers: what to teach. (Like example, I can attach a few letters of "authorities". They in absolutely serious way "prohibit" me to teach my students to use pedal in charming sonatas by Clementi and "Wild Rider" by Schuman. Now I have to go for their "seminars" to learn and write down: where am I alowed and where am I prohibited to use pedal to fit their "standards").
You talk like you have the key to paradise and that your students are free to play like they want. That sounds not very credible to me, I'm sorry.ANSWERNow you have this "key to paradise" as well. Please, read recent Marik's post in Performance.("The best way to play "Fur Elise"). Try to use it. If it will not work - post your or your students performance here and I will correct these mistakes (if any). Marik will confirm then all these corrections using his equipment.
Thanks for your very interesting objections! I am waiting for new ones.
Now I have evidence that my spelling of Notes Intensity and the real ones practically are the same.
I have already read this new post of Marik. The values he got for your recording do match quite well. I never doubted this!
I said already, that I liked your recording very much. But this statement does not mean, that I want to play the piece in the same way as you do. It's your way to play the piece. I play it my way. I'm quite sure, you would not like it. But for what reason should it be of any interest for me, if you like how I play the piece?
As I said, you are not the measure, what is right or wrong for me. You don't seem to understand this!?
I don't know your situation. You are a free man in a free land. Who can force you to teach in a special form, you're not convinced of?
Again: I dont believe in any "best way" to play a piece of music, I only believe that there are many ways - and, as Schoenberg said: all ways lead to Rome except one: the middle way.
Thank you for your detailed and goodwilling explanations. There are some important points, where we disagree strictly, but there are also points, where we fight on the same side. Especially in the fight against alleged "authorities"
Dear Vladimir, Not THAT fast, and don't get THAT excited!Before we resume, please listen to this version and tell me what is the difference in those 21 first notes compare to your original version, esp. in regards to what you call "musicality".Best, Mark
The rest sound to me as:E? D# - E+ D#- E+ B-- D+ C - A++ C- E+ A- B++ E- G#+ B- C++ I can guess that you are going to say that this version belongs to somebody very famous, whose "musicality" is confirmed by numerous "voices of media".
Yes, the performer is Vladimir Dounin. Yep, it is your recording (a little bit modified). I am wondering why there is such a difference in the notes "temperature"? Listen to them again carefully and compare differences and tell me if you notice any. Do you really hear any change in "musicality" of the performance?
Do you want to say that you did the same, absolutely even "temperature" for all of these notes? I will ask my students to listen to your recording. It is interesting for myself: what they will say? What they will hear? I still hear the same that I printed in spite of listening another 10 times in a row.
From my very first post here I am asking: if someone can suggest way to measure Notes Intensities electronically, with reliable result.
No, the "temperature" is not absolutely even. I ran it through a compressor, which much evened out it, though.Here are new values. For illustrative purposes I put them next to original ones:E- 1.3—1.3D# -4.7---4.6E ---5.3---4.8D#--7.3---5.2E----3.8---3.7B----7.3—5.4D----7.8---5.2C----9.8---6.7A----7.6---5.7 Abass Ebass---3.6---4.7 Abass---3.3---3.7C----5.0---4.7E----8.6---6.6A---11.5---7.6B-----9.4---6.0 Ebass Ebass---4.8—4.0 G#bass-3.8—3.5E---7.8---6.4G#--6.2---5.4B----8.8---6.4C----7.8---5.4I think I have already posted somewhere in details as for how you can do it.Best, Mark
Could you tell me 2 or 3 "rules" you're talking about please? Because I still don't get where the 2 threads are going to.Take care,Gonzalo
I think Mr.Vladimir has a point in here.all human beings have feelings, if music is all about feelings,then everyone can be a pianist! Music is about techniques, and that includs math too(I MEAN HOW CAN U PLAY PIANO IF U DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO COUNT?). When you've mastered everything, then you can add a little feelings to it (U CAN NOT EXPECT A BEGINNER TO HAVE FEELINGS WHEN THEY DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO)SO PLEASE THINK ABOUT IT CAREFULLY "Mr COUNTERPOINT"
Mr.Dounin Can u post more of your performance in the audition room please? dichu_li