Hamelinīs repertoire

[sevencircles]

Can someone post an up to date list of Hamelinīs complete repertoire, please.

[jre58591]

se-con-ded. however, this forum may not be able to hold all of it.

[nicco]

beh, he plays everything.

[pianowolfi]

Untru. He didn't play Rachmaninoff's first sonata yet.

[jre58591]

beh, he plays everything.

you say it like its a crime.

[bflatminor24]

I'm sure he has played all of Rachmaninoff's pieces, but he may never have performed it. He probably learned that piece in 30 minutes.

Honestly, the only works I doubt he has played are crazy avant-garde pieces that people here seem to be so enamored with.

[jre58591]

Honestly, the only works I doubt he has played are crazy avant-garde pieces that people here seem to be so enamored with.

he does like late 19th and early 20th century music most, so you may be correct. but which pieces do you refer to?

[bflatminor24]

Well, if I am indeed "orrect," I am referring to "poeces" by New Complexity composers and most of Sorabji. For example, I doubt Hamelin has learned Finnissy's Piano Concerto No. 7.

Not that it matters, how many recordings of that piece do we need? However I wish Hamelin would record the Prokofiev sonatas for Hyperion.

Max

[sevencircles]

I was mostly thinking about a link to a website.

I thought I could find a website with his repertoire by doing a websearch but I didnīt.

[ahinton]

Well, if I am indeed "orrect," I am referring to "poeces" by New Complexity composers and most of Sorabji. For example, I doubt Hamelin has learned Finnissy's Piano Concerto No. 7.

Not that it matters, how many recordings of that piece do we need? However I wish Hamelin would record the Prokofiev sonatas for Hyperion.

Max

For the record, Hamelin does not play any of Finnissy's music, nor does his repertoire include any works by anyone that might be thought of as one of the "New Complexity" composers; this is perhaps one of the more significant repertoire differences between him and Jonathan Powell (who, incidentally, gave a performance of Finnissy's Piano Concerto No. 7 in London just a f ew weeks ago).

Best,

Alistair

[opus10no2]

Based on the combination of the size of his repertoire, and the average standard of technical proficiency with which it is performed -  he , in many ways, could be considered the greatest pianist in history.

[mephisto]

(who, incidentally, gave a performance of Finnissy's Piano Concerto No. 7 in London just a f ew weeks ago).

Best,

Alistair

Everybody could do such a thing.

Hamelin plays many other American contemporary composers that Powell doesn't  play, well at least Hamelin did. So there are even more differences.

When that is said, I would LOVE it if any of them would record any of your own piano sonatas

[ahinton]

Everybody could do such a thing.

Ah - very funny!

Hamelin plays many other American contemporary composers that Powell doesn't  play, well at least Hamelin did. So there are even more differences.

Indeed so - that is why I used the phrase
"one of the more significant repertoire differences".

When that is said, I would LOVE it if any of them would record any of your own piano sonatas

Thank you very much. Well, Hamelin expressed interest in no. 4 recently but I have no idea if or when he might play it, but Powell has just decided that he wants to prepare nos. 3 & 4 to include as the filler material for the second CD of my Sequentia Claviensis (of which only five of its six movements will fit onto one CD, hence the need for a 2-CD set). Someone has just begun to make typeset editions of these two sonatas and Jonathan plans to prepare them some time next year. Naturally, I have no idea when the recording will take place, at this stage.

Best,

Alistair

[jre58591]

this is a bit off topic, but still necessary. alistair, im sure youve heard of the south african composer kevin volans and his piano concerto "atlantic crossing", correct? i saw hamelin's world premiere of this piece and fell in love with. do you know anything about recording dates for this piece, if they exist? also, do you know of when it will be published?

[bflatminor24]

Larry, thanks for NOT calling your buddy Max when you flew to SF. I was there the next day for the Garrick Ohlsson concert.

Btw, to those of you who attended Hamelin's premiere of Atlantic Crossing, was it more romantic sounding, or quasi-New Age, Aaron Jay Kernis-ish?

I hate Aaron Jay Kernis. Stupid American pop culture.

[jre58591]

haha sorry max. i didnt have your number on hand and my internet access that i did have sucked (i had complimentary access from the hotel). and for the record, i drove to SF, not by plane. anyways, it was not romantic counding at all. it was unlike anything ive ever heard. to put it into terms one can understand, it was like a mix of the following composers: adams, ginastera, rautavaara, bernstein, feldman, and maybe even radulescu. quite a mix, but it would make sense if you heard it. in the words of the composer, "it focuses more on the resonance of the piano rather than the percussion". it was a very unique piece indeed.

[pianowolfi]

I'm sure he has played all of Rachmaninoff's pieces, but he may never have performed it. He probably learned that piece in 30 minutes.

Haha i doubt if anybody would be able to learn a piece in 30 min. when the performance of it already takes 40 min. lol

[ahinton]

this is a bit off topic, but still necessary. alistair, im sure youve heard of the south african composer kevin volans and his piano concerto "atlantic crossing", correct? i saw hamelin's world premiere of this piece and fell in love with. do you know anything about recording dates for this piece, if they exist? also, do you know of when it will be published?

Yes, I have heard of it, but I have no further idea about recording or publising dates. Sorry!

Best,

Alistair

[stormx]

I have seen some videos on youtube of Mr. Hamelin, and he has an amazing technique.
On the other hand, i see that he specialized in virtuoso and not so common repertoire.

I beleive that in order to compare him with the big names in piano playing (you know, Richter, Horowitz, Rubinstein, Arrau, etc.) we must here him in standard repertoire pieces, like the Appasionata, or some Chopin Ballade.

Question:
Is there some recording out there where Mr. Hamelin plays standard repertoire (Beethoven, Chopin or Bach, for instance)?

[quantum]

There is some Chopin on Youtube, do a search

[mephisto]

I have seen some videos on youtube of Mr. Hamelin, and he has an amazing technique.
On the other hand, i see that he specialized in virtuoso and not so common repertoire.

I beleive that in order to compare him with the big names in piano playing (you know, Richter, Horowitz, Rubinstein, Arrau, etc.) we must here him in standard repertoire pieces, like the Appasionata, or some Chopin Ballade.

Question:
Is there some recording out there where Mr. Hamelin plays standard repertoire (Beethoven, Chopin or Bach, for instance)?

There exists recordings of Hamelin playing these standard rep pieces:
Beethoven's 3 last piano sonatas, and some other Beethoven sonatas(not commercial)
Albeniz Iberia(commercial)
Scriabin Sonatas(Commercial)
Debussy Preludes and some other pieces(not commercial)
Schumann fantasy, symphonic etudes, sonata no2, fantasie stucke, carneval(all commercial)
All four Chopin ballades(not commercial)
Rachmaninoff 2nd Sonata(commercial)
Chopin 2nd piano sonata(commercial)
Rachmaninoff's 2nd and 3rd piano concertis(not commercial)
Shostakovich 1st and 2nd piano concertos(commercial)
Brahms 2nd piano concerto(commercial)

All this is on top of my head.

[stormx]

There exists recordings of Hamelin playing these standard rep pieces:
Beethoven's 3 last piano sonatas, and some other Beethoven sonatas(not commercial)
Albeniz Iberia(commercial)
Scriabin Sonatas(Commercial)
Debussy Preludes and some other pieces(not commercial)
Schumann fantasy, symphonic etudes, sonata no2, fantasie stucke, carneval(all commercial)
All four Chopin ballades(not commercial)
Rachmaninoff 2nd Sonata(commercial)
Chopin 2nd piano sonata(commercial)
Rachmaninoff's 2nd and 3rd piano concertis(not commercial)
Shostakovich 1st and 2nd piano concertos(commercial)
Brahms 2nd piano concerto(commercial)

All this is on top of my head.

And how do they compare with versions from other famous pianists?

For instance, are his Beethoven recordings of the same quality of  say Brendel, Arrau or Kempff (just to take 3 specialists on LvB piano music)?

[pianistimo]

no.  some are.  some aren't.  that's what you get when you learn everything at lightening speed.

[opus10no2]

no.  some are.  some aren't.  that's what you get when you learn everything at lightening speed.

When you can PLAY at lightning speed, noone should care.

[mephisto]

And how do they compare with versions from other famous pianists?

For instance, are his Beethoven recordings of the same quality of  say Brendel, Arrau or Kempff (just to take 3 specialists on LvB piano music)?

I would not say that his Beethoven is on par with Arrau or Kempff.

But his recording of Brahms' 2nd concerto shows that he can be great in typical german/austrian repertoire.

[richy321]

Btw, to those of you who attended Hamelin's premiere of Atlantic Crossing, was it more romantic sounding, or quasi-New Age, Aaron Jay Kernis-ish?
 

Volans' Atlantic Crossing was reminiscent of John Adams, i.e., basically minimalist with tantalizing hints of romaticism.  I felt admiration for Hamelin for being willing and able to play it, but hated the fact that the stupid bongo drums obliterated much of his efforts.  There must be a special place in hell for composers who cavalierly write impossible music for a dedicated pianist like Hamelin to play but then cover it up with noise like that.  As recompense, the SF Symphony should reengage Hamelin to play music of his own choosing.

Rich Y

[mephisto]

I have to listen some times more, but indeed why on earth was it almost impossible to hear the piano in that piece? Let's face it, it was a PIANO concerto, not a symphony for orchestra and percussion. Not that the piece was terrible or anything.

[jre58591]

Volans' Atlantic Crossing was reminiscent of John Adams, i.e., basically minimalist with tantalizing hints of romaticism.  I felt admiration for Hamelin for being willing and able to play it, but hated the fact that the stupid bongo drums obliterated much of his efforts.  There must be a special place in hell for composers who cavalierly write impossible music for a dedicated pianist like Hamelin to play but then cover it up with noise like that.  As recompense, the SF Symphony should reengage Hamelin to play music of his own choosing.

were you there at the performance?

[mephisto]

Okei, i have to change my oppinion. The piece was good, but it didn't seam like a piano concerto.

[richy321]

were you there at the performance?

Of course.  How else would I have heard it?  I was at the Friday, Nov. 17 performance.  By the way, there were not only bongo drums, but the tympani player was also made to play bongo-like rythyms at the same time at very high volume.  Not all the time, but when they were playing fff the piano could not be heard.  I think it was an offense to the pianist.

Rich Y

[trinapiano]

I havnt yet read the whole thread so I dont know if these have been posted already.

Hamelins concerto repertoire...
https://www.giamanagement.com/repertoire.asp?MusicianID=2

his own compositions....
https://www.giamanagement.com/compositions.asp?PageID=13&MusicianID=2

Hamelins discography...
https://www.giamanagement.com/discography.asp?MusicianID=2

thats as much as I could find anyway

[jre58591]

Of course.  How else would I have heard it?

well, we'll say that, thanks to me, people who didnt attend the performance know what it sounds like. we'll leave it at that.

[jakev2.0]

I feel bad for Hamelin's repertoire.

[jre58591]

I feel bad for Hamelin's repertoire.

please elaborate. it sounds a bit negative to me.

[mwf]

Anyone seen his etude on la campanella, etude no.3 i think, check it out on the sheet music index in gamingforce, try and find a harder piece to play than that!!! page 10 in particular with those semi-quaver chords descending etc.. its impossible surely.

[mephisto]

Has he ever played that piece live?

[dnephi]

I dunno but Hamelin's a monstrosity.  Fantastic, he is.

[nicco]

I dunno but Hamelin's a monstrosity.  Fantastic, he is.

Indeed.

[pianistimo]

i'm in awe too, but couldn't he make that organ fanfare last more than a minute?  what's going on here?  i'd like to hear that maple leaf rag for six pianists (or is it six pianos)?

[jakev2.0]

please elaborate. it sounds a bit negative to me.

Well, If I were Le Festin D'Esope (among others), I'd be pretty pissed off.

[opus10no2]

Well, If I were Le Festin D'Esope (among others), I'd be pretty pissed off.

[jre58591]

Well, If I were Le Festin D'Esope (among others), I'd be pretty pissed off.

dont even try to justify to me that lewenthal plays alkan better than hamelin.

[jakev2.0]

Lewenthal's has some flaws, but at least he doesn't fake his way through it like a little girl.

Nice pic, btw (no small praise, coming from the creator of the most legendary Hamelin photoshop in history) 

[jre58591]

Lewenthal's has some flaws, but at least he doesn't fake his way through it like a little girl.

if you call hamelin's sheer, raw power and passion that he shows in le festin d'esope "faking it through like a little girl", you have problems. tell me, who doesnt fake it through like a little girl? gibbons? smith? lewenthal? ringeissen? it seems to me that youre just plain jealous of hamelin and have a ton of malice toward him for no valid reason. but, then again, this comes from the guy that has compared hamelin to lang lang (see da sdc), and that is too extreme in any ballpark.

[jakev2.0]

it seems to me that youre just plain jealous of hamelin and have a ton of malice toward him for no valid reason.

I'm not jealous of Hamelin at all. I respect him for bringing joy to people through his recordings and making the music of others composers better known, but I think he is also overrated as a technician and as an interpreter. This makes the notion of Hamelin as the pinnacle of pianism really distasteful to me. This idea is only attractive on the surface, before people really start listening to the playing.

but, then again, this comes from the guy that has compared hamelin to lang lang (see da sdc), and that is too extreme in any ballpark.

How is Hamelin any better than Lang Lang. Both are very good at learning pieces of music and playing them (in what I believe to be) in an uninteresting and perfunctory manner. Does the fact that Hamelin plays more obscure repertoire make him superior to Lang Lang?

if you call hamelin's sheer, raw power and passion that he shows in le festin d'esope "faking it through like a little girl", you have problems.

I love Festin D'Esope. I think it's a remarkable piece. I think that Hamelin's interpretation is very weak and unsophisticated. I believe that pianists should do their best to interpret pieces well and generally get a good sound out of the instrument. That's basically it.

tell me, who doesnt fake it through like a little girl? gibbons? smith? lewenthal? ringeissen?

I don't think there has been a mindblowing recording of the piece, but in my opinion, Lewenthal's is the best around.

Theme & Variations 1-4: Hamelin sounds very mannered and the playing sounds generally murky and stagnant. Lewenthal's playing has much greater urgency and the tone is more gripping. To be honest, I prefer how Lewenthal converts the last bar of Variation II into octaves rather than 'ghost' over them as they were written like Hamelin.

Var 5 and 6 - Hamelin (1:14-1:30) - This is blatant faking. You only think Hamelin is playing this "marziale" until you hear Lewenthal full bodied militaristic approach (1:11-1:26). Also, the crescendo into Variation VI is much more effectively rendered in the Lewenthal's recording - in Hamelin's the beginning of VI sounds like an afterthought.

...yeah I think after about a minute the listener realizes that Lewenthal's is the superior interpretation. I haven't even talked about the worst Hamelin's faking and sloppiness in varations XVII and XVIII...One day I'll do a full, variation by variation comparison.

[bflatminor24]

Thanks for expressing yourself, but don't assert your sophistic opinions as facts. I find Hamelin's playing to be moving, and full of subtlety and richness. His body is perfectly still while he plays, and I think he uses his brilliant technique to support his interpretations. He doesn't play overly romantically like Kissin and Lang Lang do. I think he has very subtle and yet complex interpretations, and I find his playing to be near perfect.

I think I actually wrote in previous fora that he was indeed the "pinnacle of pianism," to use a direct quote.

I don't see how you find Hamelin's Alkan dry - I think it's gripping and intense and even inspiring. His Alkan remains my favorite on record to date.

Before you criticize my judgment please know I own and have repeatedly listened to Hamelin's entire discography and have compared it to virtually every well known pianist. I have every Alkan CD as well as thousands of others to compare to.

~Max~

[jakev2.0]

Thanks for expressing yourself, but don't assert your sophistic opinions as facts.

A person would have to be pretty pretentious to assert their opinions as facts (for example, condescendingly insinuating that someone is asserting their opinions as facts when they are clearly responding to another poster with phrases like "to me", "I believe", "I think".)  If you would have preferred an objective, physical analysis of how Hamelin exerts less Newtons in force on the keyboard in the 'Marziale' passage in Variation 5 than Lewenthal, it might have taken a little longer for me to write up.

I don't see how you find Hamelin's Alkan dry - I think it's gripping and intense and even inspiring. His Alkan remains my favorite on record to date.

That's fine.  I was the same way.  I find listening to a midi of the 6-part Ricercare inspiring, but don't exactly laud my computer's interpretative ability. The implication here is that finding music inspiring is one thing, but an interpretation quite another.

Before you criticize my judgment please know I own and have repeatedly listened to Hamelin's entire discography and have compared it to virtually every well known pianist. I have every Alkan CD as well as thousands of others to compare to.

I have listened to quite a few Hamelin CDs. I've also listened to quite a few Alkan CDs. What my realizations were is  that Smith beats Hamelin in the Concerto, and Lewenthal makes Le Festin D'Esope a fun piece of music, and the rec of the Alkan Symphony by an elderly Egon Petri blows all others out of the water (imo, the first movement is the very greatest Alkan recording available today).

So by all means enjoy Hamelin's recordings, but I implore people to think twice before calling him an "interpretative genius" or the "greatest ever pianist". I think this current pathological belief in accuracy above all is why so many concert pianists today are just so boring compared to the past.

[bflatminor24]

I respectfully disagree. I also find it disappointing that people still resort to sarcasm in written discourse, something I hoped would end after we learned from Soliloquy's example.

And no, I wouldn't prefer a physical analysis. Interesting comment though.

How can you tell me you don't assert your opinion as fact, after writing something like this:
"Var 5 and 6 - Hamelin (1:14-1:30) - This is blatant faking. You only think Hamelin is playing this "marziale" until you hear Lewenthal full bodied militaristic approach (1:11-1:26). Also, the crescendo into Variation VI is much more effectively rendered in the Lewenthal's recording - in Hamelin's the beginning of VI sounds like an afterthought.

...yeah I think after about a minute the listener realizes that Lewenthal's is the superior interpretation. I haven't even talked about the worst Hamelin's faking and sloppiness in varations XVII and XVIII...One day I'll do a full, variation by variation comparison."

Clearly and undeniably, you state your opinion as fact here and you promulgate it in no uncertain terms.

I don't know what made you think I was "lauding my computer's sound output" but I certainly did not say that. All I said was I find Hamelin's interpretation gripping, intense, and inspiring.

I don't think it is a "pathological belief" that accuracy is paramount. That may be a trend in some young artists, but that's a pretty rash generalization. There are still artists who follow the Rubinstein and Cortot traditions. Ashkenazy and Perahia certainly don't pride themselves on accuracy.

Regrettably I haven't heard Petri's Alkan, simply because I haven't found a single CD with him playing Alkan on it. I would be curious to hear it though.

I think Smith's Alkan Concerto first movement might edge out Hamelin's, but Hamelin certainly takes the third. The impetuosness and speed contribute to an exciting third movement on Hamelin's CD.

Finally I would like to ask you how you can compare Hamelin's recordings to other artists when in fact a lot of his repertoire has not been recorded by others? Tozer is the only one with enough Medtner to compare, and I don't know of anyone who recorded the Dukas Sonata and Decaux's Claire de Lune or Sorabji's Piano Sonata 1. Some pieces are recorded exclusively by Hamelin, making it hard to compare. Unless of course you despise his playing so much that no comparison is needed to judge his playing.

~Max~

[mephisto]

Lewenthal makes Le Festin D'Esope a fun piece of music

If Le Festin d'Esope is nothing but a fun piece for you, no wonder why you dislike Hamelin that much.

[jakev2.0]

I respectfully disagree. I also find it disappointing that people still resort to sarcasm in written discourse, something I hoped would end after we learned from Soliloquy's example.

Down with sarcasm! 

Clearly and undeniably, you state your opinion as fact here and you promulgate it in no uncertain terms.

I'm just some dork on the internet with an opinion. You don't have to get into a huge semantics war with me. This whole argument would sorta be like telling Roger Ebert his review of I Heart Huckabees is whack, and backing a few of your own subjective points up with what you perceive to be his insidious parading of opinion as fact!

I don't know what made you think I was "lauding my computer's sound output" but I certainly did not say that. All I said was I find Hamelin's interpretation gripping, intense, and inspiring.

No, no, no I wasn't saying that. I was trying to make the point that the aesthetic communication of a piece doesn't guarantee depth of interpretation. I used a very extreme example.

I don't think it is a "pathological belief" that accuracy is paramount. That may be a trend in some young artists, but that's a pretty rash generalization. There are still artists who follow the Rubinstein and Cortot traditions. Ashkenazy and Perahia certainly don't pride themselves on accuracy.

I agree, but to my taste, there are too few pianists in the romantic mould today.  I don't care what people say, people like Pollini and Hamelin are NOT romantics.  I think Berezovsky is probably the best around, because he seems able to produce jaw-dropping virtuosic displays backed up by a creative interpretive mind. His live Islamey from the Tchaikovsky competition is the stuff dreams are made of.

Regrettably I haven't heard Petri's Alkan, simply because I haven't found a single CD with him playing Alkan on it. I would be curious to hear it though.

I know. It's not a very easy to find recording. I'll upload it for you after my final exams. 

I think Smith's Alkan Concerto first movement might edge out Hamelin's, but Hamelin certainly takes the third. The impetuosness and speed contribute to an exciting third movement on Hamelin's CD.

Smith's playing is quite gorgeous in the 1st movement, and is the best interpretation in my opinion. The 3rd movement is a monster, and I agree that Hamelin handles the difficulties better than Smith. Still, I prefer the Smith...and Gibbons.

Finally I would like to ask you how you can compare Hamelin's recordings to other artists when in fact a lot of his repertoire has not been recorded by others?

Well, exactly! You can't really say Hamelin's playing is great unless you have something to compare it to.

Tozer is the only one with enough Medtner to compare,

I prefer Tozer to Hamelin. I think Moiseiwitsch's playing of the Medtner G minor is far more significant than any of Hamelin's Medtner. I also think that Berezovsky's live Night Wind and the Szaki he played in Cambridge put Hamelin in the shade.

and I don't know of anyone who recorded the Dukas Sonata and Decaux's Claire de Lune or Sorabji's Piano Sonata 1. Some pieces are recorded exclusively by Hamelin, making it hard to compare.

Well, I could go out and record the first ever performances of Karlheinz Klopweiser's Atonal Fantasia and Fugue on a Theme from Jurassic Park...doesn't mean it's a great performance by virtue of the fact that it's the ONLY performance, now does it? However, being familiar with Medtner, Alkan, Scriabin, Brahms, Schumann, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninov, Godowsky, Beethoven...and finding *personally* that Hamelin is not a deep interpreter of them, I can SURMISE that Hamelin is not magically deeper in Sorabji, Dukas, Roslavets, etc.

Unless of course you despise his playing so much that no comparison is needed to judge his playing.

~Max~

I don't despise Hamelin's playing. I don't despise Hamelin. I take issue with comments that he is the greatest ever pianist. In historical terms, he doesn't even rank in the top 50, in my opinion.

If Le Festin d'Esope is nothing but a fun piece for you, no wonder why you dislike Hamelin that much.

Mea culpa. The piece is actually a rigorous intellectual exercise devoid of any humor or vibrancy. Hamelin was right all along. Thank you for helping me see the error in my ways.