harmony

[sonata76]

hi can anyone explain harmony for piano.i want to compose but the melody isnt the problem.the problem is that i dont want to play chord progressions but rather single note lines on the left hand.i play bach,mozart pieces but i cant understand how they work out the single note lines so well with the melody.are the single notes based from chords?there must be some way of doing this that i dont know.also i want to play my own compositions but i feel the melodys i have written need more than just chord progressions.i would be grateful for any advice.thanx

[mephisto]

First you need to learn basic western harmony(you need to learn about chord progression if you don't know about it already)

Pieces by Mozart and Bach etc, are dominated by three chords: T-S-D, and also Ts,Tm,Ss,Sm,Ds and Dm as well as 7th chords and some other stuff. I understand that this is a lot of information at a time so I will try to explain it clearer.


T:Tonic. If a piece is in C-major the Tonic is C major :C-E-G
S: Sub-dominant.  If a piece is in C-major the Sub Dominant is F -major:F-A-C
D: Domiant. If a piece is in C-major the Dominant is G major:G-B-D


Let us say that your piece is in c major:

Every c-note can have a bass line with the notes of the Tonic or Sub dominant, because those chords contains a c in them.. Just try that on a piano. The c-note sounds good together with all of those notes.

If it is a d-note you can only use the notes in the Domiantn(G-B-D) because d is only in that chord.

I'll do the rest too:

E: You can only use the notes in the Tonic(c-e-g)
F: You can only use the notes in the Sub dominant(F-A-C)
G: You can use the notes in the Tonic and the Domiant.
A: You can use the notes of the Sub dominant
B: You can only use the notes of the Domiant in you bass line.


In the begining this is all you have to know. It gets more complicate after you have fully understood this. Because there are more chords you can use(yes I understand that you only want a bass line, but it is all based on the chords) after you have understood this,the music will eventually sound even greater

[sonata76]

thanx mephisto.thats going to help me alot.i didnt know any of those chord progressions.

[mad_max2024]

btw, does anyone have any book recomendations for people who want to learn more about harmony and chord progressions?

[rc]

Besides scouring the internet, what's helped me set a strong foundation was a basic workbook for grades 1 - 2 music theory.  I assume they're fairly generic and interchangable, the one I use is called "the complete elementary music rudiments" by Mark Sarnecki - https://www.frederickharrismusic.com/fhmcCN/catalogue?selection=details&code=473

Sorry I just realized you were just looking for harmony, this book is everything.  Besides harmony there's notation, scales, intervals, time signatures, c-clefs...  Might not be what you're looking for, but it's good stuff to know anyways.

[desordre]

 Dear Sonata and MadMax:
 Do you want one single and straightforward advice? Get a teacher. Of course you can read stuff from www, or books by the great authors, but why making things harder?
 Best wishes!
 

[mad_max2024]

I've already got a teacher, but I hardly have enough time to work on the pieces with him during classes, let alone learn musical theory.
That's why I try to learn whatever I can from books and www and anything I can get my hands on during the week, then I can ask my teacher what I don't understand in classes.
When time is scarce, you have to improvise...
[[]]

P.S. Thanks rc, I'll be sure to check it out, I'm looking for anything that will help me understand and analyze a piece. I have a limited understanding of chords and scales major and minor and common progressions but it's not a lot and I would like to learn more

[preludium]

Theory is actually something that can be learned easily without a teacher. You need a teacher for your playing because it would take awfully long or be even impossible to correct bad habits once they are ingrained, due to the fact that motions are complex by nature and cannot be handled by your consciousness alone, so your subconscious mind has to jump in and do all the basics. With theory it's completely different. If you have a wrong concept about something it can be corrected within minutes without leaving anything behind. When you read a good book and things suddenly fall into place it doesn't matter if you had a wrong idea about this subject for years.

After you've learned all the basic concepts the best way is to analyse compositions on your own. You wouldn't get much out of it if a teacher did it for you, unless it's about showing you how to get started. You can own a theory only after having thought about it with your own brain. That's what no teacher can achieve. This makes the difference between learning something by heart and actually understanding it.

Just one hint concerning melody lines: you can find the chords that are associated with them by looking at the stressed beats of a bar. After some practice you can even hear chord progressions in one voice sections that consist of scales only, what you often find in Bach pieces.

[rc]

P.S. Thanks rc, I'll be sure to check it out, I'm looking for anything that will help me understand and analyze a piece. I have a limited understanding of chords and scales major and minor and common progressions but it's not a lot and I would like to learn more

Thanks, I hope it's useful for you!

I agree with everything Preludium said, asking your teacher when you need help is a good plan too.  Spread your mind, you won't find it difficult to find information on theory.  Try your public library.

see if there's something you like in this direction: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,6759.msg66545.html#msg66545

[mad_max2024]

see if there's something you like in this direction: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,6759.msg66545.html#msg66545

wow that's a lot of books lol
I'll go check them out and probably place an order on amazon for what looks interesting since I doubt I'll find them on portuguese bookstores.
Thanks a lot
[[]]

[eelco]

btw, does anyone have any book recomendations for people who want to learn more about harmony and chord progressions?

Hey mad_max2024, I just bought a book that seems very promising. Have a look at https://www.completechords.com. It has a chapter on "How Chord progressions really work".
I just started reading, so I didn't reach that part yet, but I can't wait to get there. ;-)

Greetings, Eelco