1st's in the repertoire - contribute

[mikey6]

I was thinking of a sort of fun history thread in which we can list the 1st tims something (say pedal markings, atonality etc.) was used and by whom.  And feel free to correct/contradict anyone

Pedal marking - Haydn Sonata in C Hob.50
un-analysable chord - 'Tristan' chord (obvious, but it had to be included)
completly atonal work - Erwartung by Schoenberg
Complete serial work - 4 Etudes in Rhythm no. (don't remember) Messaien.

That's all I can think of at the moment - does anyone know when 'fff' was first used? Can't imagine it being in Baroque times and the classics didn't use it I don't think.

[jre58591]

first piece with clusters used exclusively - dynamic motion by cowell

[jakev2.0]

I'm pretty sure the first piece where "clusters were used exclusively" was by the first toddler to came in contact with a keyboard. 

[ihatepop]

first note played-the stone age

ihatepop

[mephisto]

Isn't Boulez' 2nd Piano Sonata something like the first post-serialistic piece?


Jhon Cage 4,33: First piano piece without any notes.

[mikey6]

first piece with clusters used exclusively - dynamic motion by cowell

I know Cowell used them throughout, but I heard of some Baroque piece where the harpsichordist has to slam his arm down on the keyboard - anyone know what it's called?

[jre58591]

I know Cowell used them throughout, but I heard of some Baroque piece where the harpsichordist has to slam his arm down on the keyboard - anyone know what it's called?

wow, are you sure this isnt a joke? that would bring my respect level up for baroque astronomically.

piece with the largest cluster - atmospheres by ligeti (about 5 octaves)

[houseofblackleaves]

Not sure, but most clusters repeated over... and over... and over....

Rzewski's Winsborro Cotton Mill Blues.

If not, oh well.  I love the peice anyways.


And was it Debussy or Ravel that would sit down and play the same passage over and over again for a couple hours? 

[Etude]

First piece to use the Prepared Piano - Cage's 'Bacchanale'  (I think).

First piece composed using 'Arborescences'  Xenakis - Evryali

[jre58591]

Not sure, but most clusters repeated over... and over... and over....

Rzewski's Winsborro Cotton Mill Blues.

If not, oh well.  I love the peice anyways.

actually, ornstein's danse sauvage has more clusters in a row. actually, almost thorughout the entire piece.

[mikey6]

And was it Debussy or Ravel that would sit down and play the same passage over and over again for a couple hours? 

Are you sure you're not thinking of Satie's vexations? supposedly one pianist plays 2 8 bar passages for 800-odd times (I think the only single guy who ever attempted it started seeing demons by about the 500th time )
Dunno what that could be classified as a first as though....

wow, are you sure this isnt a joke? that would bring my respect level up for baroque astronomically.

Nah, the composition teacher at uni told the class.

[mikey6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_cluster#_note-0

note 1 and the links explain a few interesting facts.

[jre58591]

first aleatoric composition - hovhaness's piano concerto "lousadzak"

[thalbergmad]

1st singer in a String Quartet.

A Hinton

[jre58591]

Complete serial work - 4 Etudes in Rhythm no. (don't remember) Messaien.

i checked my scores and found which messiaen etude you refer to. its titled "mode de valeurs et d'intensités". its probably my least favorite of that set.

[ahinton]

1st singer in a String Quartet.

A Hinton

Thanks for the plug, Thal, but - dear me! - that's wrong on both counts. First of all, my string quartet (I've written only one so far) does not include a singer - you are thinking of my string QUINtet (which includes a soprano in its finale); secondly, there are numeous other examples of solo singers in works scored for - and actually entitled - "string quartet", of which a relatively recent one is Ferneyhough's Fourth Quartet and perhaps the most famous is Schönberg's Second Quartet which is now almost a century old...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Now, come on, folks - what about first use of the bass clarinet? and first use of the contrabass clarinet? or first incorporation of a member of the saxophone family into a symphony orchestra - or chamber ensemble?...

Best,

Alistair

[mikey6]

Now, come on, folks - what about first use of the bass clarinet? and first use of the contrabass clarinet? or first incorporation of a member of the saxophone family into a symphony orchestra - or chamber ensemble?...

Best,

Alistair

Well...what are they?
Is the sax piece something by Bizet? That seems to ring a bell.

[franzliszt2]

For the opening comment, I must say that the Tristan chord can be analysed, and it was actually used by Beethoven in the Eb sonata op31 no? 1 2 or 3, I forget, u know the one I mean though, the Eb major.


Bach well tempered clavier, first set of works to include all 24 keys 

[mephisto]

Now, come on, folks - what about first use of the bass clarinet? and first use of the contrabass clarinet? or first incorporation of a member of the saxophone family into a symphony orchestra - or chamber ensemble?...

Best,

Alistair

Exept for Thal's amusing joke, all are piano music, or in its barqoue versions.

[thalbergmad]

First Piano Concerto with chorus

Steibelt Number 8

[mikey6]

For the opening comment, I must say that the Tristan chord can be analysed, and it was actually used by Beethoven in the Eb sonata op31 no? 1 2 or 3, I forget, u know the one I mean though, the Eb major.

ahm..no it can't - the sound of the chord may be a half diminished (m7b5) which in that case has been used by many composers before Beethoven- but the way it's spelt in the Wagner has no relationship to any key.

Eb sonata is no.3 btw.

[thalbergmad]

First piece for orchestra where the woodwind players are not allowed any instruments.

Waltz for Restricted Orchestra - Peter Fricker

[soliloquy]

First Concerto- Vivaldi
First to use atonality (appoggiaturas)- Dutch Renaissance
First to use serialism- Roslavets
First to use electronics- Jean Barraque (Pierre Schaeffer is incorrect, but is many times noted as the first)
First Modern Saxophone in full orchestra (someone asked earlier)- Ravel
First use of the word "minimalism"- Nyman
First to use no time signature- Ives
First New Complexity Piece- hmm... technically Finnissy, although the term was not used until Ferneyhough came into importance
First Stochastic Piece- Hiller & Isaacson of Indiana University
First Symphonic Poem- Liszt
First Symbolist- Debussy
First Futurist- Mosolov; defining Scriabin as a futurist is questionable
First to use Bass Clarinet- Mercadante
First Bartok Pizzicato- Bartok!  just kidding- Gershwin



and, interestingly, first Avant-Garde piece: Haydn  (Farewell Symphony- look it up)


Anyway, to my knowledge that is all correct but I would not be surprised if 1 or 2 was wrong.


I would be interested in knowing what the first pieces to use scordatura or physical gesturation are; I assume it's not going to be the Kodaly Solo Cello Sonata and Scelsi's "Action Music" respectively?

[jre58591]

perhaps you can answer this. who was the first spectralist composer and/or piece? ive wanted to know that for a while.

[ihatepop]

First piece for orchestra where the woodwind players are not allowed any instruments.

Waltz for Restricted Orchestra - Peter Fricker

Woodwind players were not allowed any instruments?
What do they do, then?!

ihatepop

[soliloquy]

perhaps you can answer this. who was the first spectralist composer and/or piece? ive wanted to know that for a while.

Technically Xenakis was the first to use vectorization in composition, but the "correct answer" will be French-Canadian composer Claude Vivier.

[mephisto]

First to use no time signature- Ives

Sadly you are wrong, and you know it.

[counterpoint]

First Piece, which repeats FOREVER (!)

Chopin  Mazurka op.7 no. 5

has marking "dal segno senza Fine"

[thalbergmad]

First Concerto- Vivaldi

Before him - Radino, Jarzebski, Stradella, Muffat, Corelli, Torelli & Jaccini.

[jakev2.0]

First composer to write serious masterpieces: Bach

[thalbergmad]

Woodwind players were not allowed any instruments?
What do they do, then?!

ihatepop

They have to play just with the mouth piece

[mikey6]

First composer to write serious masterpieces: Bach

Wooh - settin yourself up for some mega debate there!

[steve_m]

3

[mephisto]

Does Gregorian Chant have ANY beat what so ever?

[ihatepop]

They have to play just with the mouth piece

and blow into it? Are those woodwind players just for display?

ihatepop