Use vs. Climate -- Which has more effect?

[Bob]

Probably another unanswerable question.  It depends on the piano.

Which would have more impact on making your piano go out of tune?  Playing on it a few hours each day, or the normal climate changes during the year?

I always thought playing loud would make a piano go out of tune faster, but I had a tuner tell me that didn't matter and the changes in temperature/humidity throughout the year would have a much bigger impact.  Basically, the tuner implied the playing didn't have any effect.

Any thoughts?

[phil13]

I honestly don't know. Are you speaking of climate changes that are massively different throughout the seasons, or small changes that could occur just a bout anywhere? I suppose it all depends on where you live.

Proof that playing has an effect: In my experience, a newly replaced string on a piano will go out of tune faster if it is played more often, as it stretches.

Phil

[faulty_damper]

Relative Humidity has the biggest effect, not playing loudly.  An unstable humidity can cause a well-tuned piano to go out-of-tune in less than an hour.  This is because the soundboard, the largest wooden part, can swell and/or contract and it directly effects the tension of the strings because they are connected the bridge.

[timothy42b]

I think the first loud note on a new string moves it, and after that it's done.  If you notice, piano tuners bang pretty hard when they're working.  So I tend to doubt playing has as much effect as humidity changes.  When you change guitar strings, you give a big yank to "stretch" them, then they stay in tune better.  Of course they don't actually stretch, the coils just slip on the peg until they're taut. 

[faulty_damper]

I think the first loud note on a new string moves it, and after that it's done.  If you notice, piano tuners bang pretty hard when they're working.

The "banging" is the tuner equalizing the tension of the strings so that the result is a stable tuning.  Assuming the tuner did an excellent job, the factor that still has the most effect on pitch stability is humidity.

[arensky]

They are both factors in tuning stability. The humidity affects the soundboard, where the bridge pulls the strings if there is a great deal of fluctuation in the humidity level of the room. But everytime you strike a key the string vibrates, and evantually it will vibrate out of tune. The more heavy playing a piano gets the sooner it will go out of tune, regardless of the humidity. If this were not true conservatories would merely put a humidifier/climate control system in every practice room and take the tuner/technicians off the payroll. Every piano is different but their rooms need to be kept at a constant humidity level (35 to 50%, I keep mine at 40) and they need regular tuning and maintenence from a good tuner/technician.

[faulty_damper]

They are both factors in tuning stability. The humidity affects the soundboard, where the bridge pulls the strings if there is a great deal of fluctuation in the humidity level of the room. But everytime you strike a key the string vibrates, and evantually it will vibrate out of tune. The more heavy playing a piano gets the sooner it will go out of tune, regardless of the humidity. If this were not true conservatories would merely put a humidifier/climate control system in every practice room and take the tuner/technicians off the payroll. Every piano is different but their rooms need to be kept at a constant humidity level (35 to 50%, I keep mine at 40) and they need regular tuning and maintenence from a good tuner/technician.

Humidifiers and climate control systems are not cost efficient means of keeping climate stability and considering the costs of such systems, it's much cheaper to hire a tuner than to install these devices and pay the high costs for electricity and other required maintenance which would easily costs more than $300/year/system.  Tuners are much cheaper.

Also, strings don't vibrate out of tune unless the pin block is loose, usually because it has been damaged by an unstable climate so that it won't hold the pins tightly in place.  And even if the pin block were not as tight, it would still require lots of banging before it needs to be tuned, but that depends on the condition of the pin block.

[sirpazhan]

hmm,, well my piano tuning stability is pretty solid.  I try my best to keep the environment stable (winters RH 60% 65 degrees, summers 52% 76 degrees). I have a 'dehumidifier' running 24/7, its not the best idea of energy saving, but without it, the RH runs up to 75% (then my piano starts acting drunk) its also pretty odd since the outside RH is more like 45%,, I have to look into some other form of climate control solution.

in my opinion I think use and climate is a little on both ends,, amount of use vs. amount of climate fluctuation will vary the answer.

but if I had to choose one answer, I'd say: humidity

[jolly]

Humidifiers and climate control systems are not cost efficient means of keeping climate stability and considering the costs of such systems, it's much cheaper to hire a tuner than to install these devices and pay the high costs for electricity and other required maintenance which would easily costs more than $300/year/system.  Tuners are much cheaper.

Also, strings don't vibrate out of tune unless the pin block is loose, usually because it has been damaged by an unstable climate so that it won't hold the pins tightly in place.  And even if the pin block were not as tight, it would still require lots of banging before it needs to be tuned, but that depends on the condition of the pin block.

Bought a soundboard lately, and had it installed?

Fact is, a properly installed and maintained Damp-Chaser system contributes both to tuning stability and piano life. The downside is that a poorly maintained system - letting it run out of water constantly, etc - can shorten the life of a piano, sometimes dramatically.

As to the original question....even a well-maintained Chinese grand should give a professional ten years use, or you can put it in wretched climatic conditions and make firewood out of it in just a few years.

My opinion, YMMV.

[alzado]

Our current piano tuner has been coming for many years.  We bought our grand in 1988 and he has always tuned it.

When he first came to our home, he asked me, "are you a banger?"  I.e., someone who loves FFF I suppose.  He seems to believe that banging drives pianos out of tune.

As another point related to forcible playing, Larry Fine describes one model of mid-sized grand in his "Piano Book" as follows:  "Suitable as a family piano with moderate use, but not recommended for someone practicing Rachmaninoff concertos six hours a day."  How does one interpret this?  Possibly that very forcible playing of the piano can affect the tune.  And it probably does not help the piano much mechanically, either.

That said, humidity is very critical, and likely is more of a factor than how one plays.

Some parts of the country, where there is high humidity and considerable fluctuation, like warm areas near the sea, for example, will make this issue more critical.

we live in the northern states, have central air conditioning and a humidity-controlled furnace.  Our piano is not near any heating or cooling registers, and is not in the sun.  We have had the piano almost 20 years.   It holds tune well and we have no problems.  We really would not need a damp chaser, I think.

Best to all--