Alkan

[arensky]

Vote 'n discuss...

I think his music is well composed and interesting but suffers from a lack of melodic invention, and for that reason it has not made greater headway with the listening public, who like a good tune with their 19th century music.

[tompilk]

Vote 'n discuss...

I think his music is well composed and interesting but suffers from a lack of melodic invention, and for that reason it has not made greater headway with the listening public, who like a good tune with their 19th century music.

i think it moves TOO fast for people to enjoy. There is plenty of original music for me to enjoy at least!
The most undeservedly underrated and publicly unknown composer EVER in my opinion...
Tom

[jakev2.0]

I think new listeners sometimes have trouble separating Alkan's great music, from Alkan's decent music, from his not-so-successful compositional attempts, heh. This confusion is the result of Alkan only now being seriously rediscovered.

For example, Alkan pieces which, in my mind, are great music include Quasi-Faust Opus 33, Symphony for Solo Piano Opus 39 4-7 (esp. mvts 1 and 4), Festin D'Esope Opus 39 12, the Violin Sonata, and a good handful of the miniatures. As well as being original, creative, and masterly composed, they the memorable tunes you crave, arensky.

A lot of other Alkan like, the Opus 76 etudes, isn't as immediately arresting, but is seriously interesting and very powerful. The Concerto opus 39 is also a masterpiece, and totally unique in the repertoire (if not slightly impossible to program into a recital). I think that the concerto has one of those not so memorable tunes (the molto espressivo part a few pages into the first movement)...but this is not something a bit of careful editing couldn't solve.

To my mind, it's confusing the Alkan revival when people go around saying the Opus 35 Major-key Etudes are "great music".  Certainly they're interesting and well above average for 19th century music, but they are nowhere near on the level of the Chopin Etudes. It's even worse when cheap trash like Comme le Vent (Opus 39 1) is called "wonderful". It just isn't. It's Alkan's equivalent of Grande Galope Chormatique, but it's even stupider sounding, and there aren't any Cziffra's to play it!

But yes, Alkan was a tremendous virtuoso who also wrote some amazing, whacky, weird, and excellent (and not so excellent) music for the piano.  His best emphatically earns him the distinction  "great composer". 

[tompilk]

I think new listeners sometimes have trouble separating Alkan's great music, from Alkan's decent music, from his not-so-successful compositional attempts, heh. This confusion is the result of Alkan only now being seriously rediscovered.

For example, Alkan pieces which, in my mind, are great music include Quasi-Faust Opus 33, Symphony for Solo Piano Opus 39 4-7 (esp. mvts 1 and 4), Festin D'Esope Opus 39 12, the Violin Sonata, and a good handful of the miniatures. As well as being original, creative, and masterly composed, they the memorable tunes you crave, arensky.

A lot of other Alkan like, the Opus 76 etudes, isn't as immediately arresting, but is seriously interesting and very powerful. The Concerto opus 39 is also a masterpiece, and totally unique in the repertoire (if not slightly impossible to program into a recital). I think that the concerto has one of those not so memorable tunes (the molto espressivo part a few pages into the first movement)...but this is not something a bit of careful editing couldn't solve.

To my mind, it's confusing the Alkan revival when people go around saying the Opus 35 Major-key Etudes are "great music".  Certainly they're interesting and well above average for 19th century music, but they are nowhere near on the level of the Chopin Etudes. It's even worse when cheap trash like Comme le Vent (Opus 39 1) is called "wonderful". It just isn't. It's Alkan's equivalent of Grande Galope Chormatique, but it's even stupider sounding, and there aren't any Cziffra's to play it!

But yes, Alkan was a tremendous virtuoso who also wrote some amazing, whacky, weird, and excellent (and not so excellent) music for the piano.  His best emphatically earns him the distinction  "great composer". 

in the dover version of the sheet music of alkan, marc-andre hamelin suggests a cut so it lasts just over 10mins for the first movement so it can be programmed easier.
It's a good idea...
And his op. 35 etudes aren't that great compared to his other stuff, like you say jake. His op 33, 39 and 76 are the best by far in my opinion...
Tom

[mephisto]

The Sonatine

[ahinton]

I really couldn't care less about polls of this type, but I do agree that, so far, the results of this one speak for themselves. Alkan was considered by no less a figure than Busoni to be one of the five greatest composers for the piano since Beethoven. Taken as a whole, his output for his own instrument may be a little less even than, say, that of Medtner, but there can be absolutely no doubt that Alkan was one of the most important composers in the entire history of the piano - so much so, in fact, that it is unclear to me what there may be about which to argue...

Best,

Alistair

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Topics like this can't be argued because there is really nothing to argue. If his music gets played, even seldom, then he is indeed a great composer. More so than that, what is great for one may not be great for another, so discussions such as this really don't determine if the composer should be labeled as great or not.

[arensky]

. As well as being original, creative, and masterly composed, they the memorable tunes you crave, arensky.

Uh ha.

What makes you think ah crave memorable tunes?

[jakev2.0]

I donno. :S

[ahinton]

Topics like this can't be argued because there is really nothing to argue.

That is certainly true.

If his music gets played, even seldom, then he is indeed a great composer.

That is certainly not true!

More so than that, what is great for one may not be great for another, so discussions such as this really don't determine if the composer should be labeled as great or not.

That is true.

Two out of three's not bad, I guess...

Best,

Alisair

[mephisto]

No one has ever said anything about arguing. This is a topic in wich one can discuss different oppinions about Alkan. That is very interesting,

Some people may find it more amusing to make fun of pianistimo...

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Say what you will about Alkan's merit. Listen to music such as the op. 30 Trio, Grand Duo concertant op. 21, Le Festin d'Esope, Les diablotins and La chanson de la folle au bord de la mer and surely even his musical adversaries must concede that this is a very original mind at work.

[mephisto]

You play Alkan's music very beautifull too

[magio]

He was one of the best pianists of all times (technique).He was the main rival of Liszt. Liszt once stated that Alkan had the finest piano technique of anyone he knew!Alkan's remarkable technique is evidenced by the technical and physical demands of his compositions.
However, this technique was not at the expense of musicality. This is exemplified by his more sensitive pieces, (e.g. his Op. 22 Nocturne in B and several of his Esquisses). The composer Vincent d'Indy, recalling Alkan at his mid-sixties with "skinny, hooked fingers" in an empty room with an Erard pedalier playing Bach, said:

"I listened, rooted to the spot by the expressive, crystal clear playing."Of course some of his compositions had enormous musical power such as Alleluia ,opus 25.
Notable compositions include the Grande sonate Les quatre âges (Op. 33), depicting the Four Ages of Man, and the two sets of etudes in all the major and minor keys (Op. 35 and 39, respectively). These are held by some to surpass even the Transcendental Etudes of Liszt in scale and difficulty. The opus 39 collection contains the Symphony for Solo Piano (numbers four, five, six and seven), and the Concerto for Solo Piano (numbers eight, nine and ten).

The Concerto of Op. 39 alone takes nearly an hour to play, and presents a great challenge to the performer.

Marc-André Hamelin said of Alkan's music:

"The aspect of Alkan that is most apparent when people who don't know him listen to him for the first time is that his music is difficult to play... But in a way, I wish that it did not take a formidable technique to play... But the great musical worth of Alkan's music makes it worthwhile to master those difficulties, even though it would take a lot of time."
Finally his spicy masterpiece is 'scherzo diabolico'
SUCH A GREAT COMPOSER
ALKAN will be alive FOR EVER in our hearts!

[gaest]

I've already said it in another reply elsewhere, but Alkan is my favorite composer.  His music is unique and in my opinion ahead of its time.  I would give an arm and a leg (well, not an arm, since I'd need it) to be able to play his work.  His Concerto for Solo Piano astounded me when I first heard it, and even now I get a stupid grin on my face listening to the third movement.  Some of his pieces are not at that level, as all composers have hits and misses, but overall his music is amazing, being technically challenging without losing musicality or emotional subtlety. 

So I'm pretty biased, but I find him to be brilliant.

[magio]

@gaest,i agree with you(1000%) how many years have you been playing the piano? :-)

[gyzzzmo]

I voted 'OK', because alot of his music is pretty simplistic and non-original.

[pianoplayjl]

I voted 'great composer' because I love his esquisses and etudes.

[octavius_trillson]

Alkan was certainly a great composer. One only need look at the resplendent beauty and staggering intricacy of the Concerto for Solo Piano to see that he was a genius cut from the same cloth as Beethoven and Liszt. In my opinion if we restrict compositional output to works for solo piano only then Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Alkan, Rachmaninoff and Medtner are the greatest geniuses and deserve equal recognition.

The only quarrel I have with Alkan is he sometimes breaks up a perfect flow of music with some dull dry section which serves no musical purpose and ends up sounding like a bland technical exercise.

Wow I just realised how old this thread is....

[pianoplayjl]

Alkan was just about the only pianist in his day that could challenge liszt's incredible technique.