Divorce

[mycrabface]

Any of you are divorced parents?

Any of you who have divorced parents?

How do you feel about it?

Who's fault is it?

Can you stand your parents quarrelling all the time?

What do you think goes through the child's head?

Do you not give a d**m about the well-being of the child?

[ted]

My family and my wife's family are both riddled with divorces, affairs, lovers, mistresses, broken families, instability of every imaginable kind and confused kids growing into confused adults. Sadly, I think most extended families are like this these days. With one or two pathological exceptions where violence was involved and divorce the only sensible option, these events usually took place because adults put selfish desires of one sort or another before the needs of their children. 

Any of you are divorced parents?
We are still together after twenty-seven years and our son is twenty-four and now independent (independent in theory, sometimes not in practice of course !)

Any of you who have divorced parents?
Both my parents and my wife's parents remained together until the end.

How do you feel about it?
In my experience it is always a severely traumatic and sad event for children, if children are involved. If children are not involved it is still negative, but not usually as serious in its consequences.

Who's fault is it?
Its specific nature makes it impossible to pass general judgement.

Can you stand your parents quarrelling all the time?
All couples have arguments. If they say they do not, then I don't think they can be having much of a marriage. Either that or they are telling lies. Its seriousness is a matter of degree and frequency.

What do you think goes through the child's head?
I do not know. I was lucky enough, as a child, to be wanted and loved by stable parents. My mother's parents separated and she used to tell me it was a horrible experience.

Do you not give a d**m about the well-being of the child?
Yes, of course I do. The well-being of our son has been a driving force in our marriage. In saying this, however, I abjure any moral high ground. Life is exceedingly difficult for many families these days. External pressures of every kind constantly threaten even the most well intentioned and kind people. Sometimes things can just get too much and go wrong despite all efforts and wishes to the contrary. If these cases are caught early enough, counselling by experienced people can often save the day. The trouble is that couples do not usually ask for help early enough. 

 

[pianistimo]

agreed with ted on mostly everything.  especially being honest that most married couples fight - and don't always wait until they close the doors.  it's sometimes a matter of maturity.  my husband and i should have been italian or something.  we never think to go upstairs and argue by ourselves.  our children take it as that we are really mad- but we usually go and mend the fence in bed or in the morning and rarely are mad for longer than 6 hours.  now - being married for 21 years - i would say at the max 3.  sometimes i call my husband an hour after he's gotten to work and apologize for something that might be mistaken as anger - but was just frustration about something.  you know - you just say things, sometimes.  but, we try to counter it with a lot of positive talk.  he always starts his words with 'sweet...do you think this?'  and, now that i've been married to him so long - i always start (even arguments) saying 'honey...'  believe it or not - that makes a huge difference. 

and, our children - despite worrying intensely at times about our love for each other - see that we work things out.  even if we don't agree.  and we try to make as much concessions for each other as possible.

my parents and his parents did the same.  they always worked it out.  my mom's mother was married twice - but i think that wars have a devastating effect on families.  for one thing (during WWII) the family is separated for an unnaturally long period of time.  i felt badly for my grandmother's first marriage - because shortly after the war - her husband left her for another woman and she had two children.  she married again - and this man stuck by her better.  but, it was difficult because she had to work a lot - and there wasn't a lot of time to be a 'mom.  my mother was the 'mom' most of the time from after school to 6-7 pm.  she helped her younger sibilings do homework - clean up - and started preparing dinner.  she was about 8 years old to 18  - and did a huge amount of work for the family.  when she left home - she never wanted to see anyone divorce - because the brunt of the hurt went to her.  she didn't get to experience the joy of childhood.  she was forced to be more of an adult than a child. 

in my humble experience (or sometimes not so humble) i've found that sometimes ages of children make a difference as to the actual 'time' you have with each other.  for instance, by the time my son was 16 - we had a babysitter we could count on for those occasional times we needed to just go out to dinner.  we usually aren't gone that long -but it's enough to recharge.  during those younger days with the first child - we had no time to ourselves unless someone volunteered to babysit.  and, being the first baby - i was very wary of other people watching my kids.  (you hear horror stories).  but, by the third child - i was kinda casual about it.  of course, usually only picking women to watch the kids - and preferably women who had their own children - but still - i wasn't counting their housecleaning abilities or anything like that anymore.  i used to think bubblegum couldn't fall on the floor or that my baby shouldn't crawl on anything with dust or dirt...now - with grandchildren - i'll be the first to put them in the sandbox.  i mean - that's all they do is get dirty.  may as well just let them enjoy it for awhile.

[thalbergmad]

Divorce is a wonderful thing.

There is a way out, you don't have to spend the rest of your life with the miserable witch.

Thal

[pianistimo]

but, thal, there are many women who are quite agreeable.  i think it's what a man really wants.  does he want someone to constantly agree with him.  that can get annoying, too.  i mean, you have noone to bounce ideas off of.  just because two people don't agree doesn't mean they don't learn from one another.  i think it's learning to get a long.  it can be this way with any relationship - not just a married one.

ps i think 'the family that prays together, stays together.'

and, i think that most younger people use 'fear' in their relationships as a starting point.  'what if my mate cheats?'  'what if they misuse the finances?'  'what if they turn out really messy?'  'what if they have bizarre habits?'  'what if ...'  you know - all the worst things you think.  but, when you go through them one at a time in whatever ways they come up - you start talking and communicating and see that fear is really not a useful basis for any relationship.  you have to be sure of YOURSELF.  then, it all really starts and ends for you with you (and God).  forgiveness and mercy can be as helpful for humans as they are to God.

[thalbergmad]

The problem with women is when they get married they get complacent, fat and don't want to do the ironing any more.

Divorce is a way out.

Thal

[pianistimo]

which would you prefer.  a hot fat well rested chick who wants sex whenever you do - or one that is tired from ironing and works too hard?  btw, most shirts are wrinkle free today. where on earth are you buying shirts?

[elspeth]

What about men getting complacent? If you expect her to do your ironing, what's your contribution to domestic equilibrium?

It's not a subject you can generalise about - I was very lucky to grow up in a stable, loving home but plenty of people aren't that fortunate. My best friend's parents divorced recently because of the father's alcoholism - and the damage was done in that family because of his addiction, not because the parents finally divorced when the kids were grown up.

Having worked in banking and finance I've seen what harm money can do in families - both too much and not enough - and being in theatres I've refereed more domestics than I care to think about. On one notable occasion a woman brought her other man to the opera, and her husband, having an evening alone to kill thinking his wife was out with the girls had entirely independently also come to the opera and by chance booked a seat a couple of rows back from his wife... that was an interesting shift! Other times one half finds out their partner will be at the theatre with the third party and come to find them to catch them red-handed and force the issue. Or couples who come together, have one too many drinks or have some trivial issue come up, and start  fighting.

So - divorce is necessarily damaging and hurtful all round, but there are plenty of circumstances which can make it the only sensible thing to do. Sometimes it's less damaging to leave than to stay. Some people certainly do it for selfish motivations - but if that motivation is still enough to make them seriously unhappy, is it therefore better to divorce even if it is selfish, rather than make your kids watch you be that unhappy? If you stay are you actually teaching your kids that marriage is a miserable state to be in and it's their fault you're putting up with it? Kids very quickly pick up the emotional weather in the house and react to it according to their age and maturity. And some children do grow up out of 'broken' homes to be well-adjusted, happy people. It just depends on the circumstances and how you handle it.

[thalbergmad]

I was very lucky to grow up in a stable

Wow, so was Jesus.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

you have to be sure of YOURSELF.  then, it all really starts and ends for you with you (and God).  forgiveness and mercy can be as helpful for humans as they are to God.

Religious infestation of unrelated thread example number 497.

[trinapiano]

.

[mycrabface]

The problem with women is when they get married they get complacent, fat and don't want to do the ironing any more.

Divorce is a way out.

Thal

LOL. Thal, you're mean.

My parents are divorced and look what a monster i became. I'm deprived of a happy family.

[ahinton]

Religious infestation of unrelated thread example number 497.

You have the time to count them all?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

The problem with women is when they get married they get complacent, fat and don't want to do the ironing any more.

Might you have room to imagine that there may be other women out there who, when they get married, begin to think that their husbands get complacent, fat and don't want to do the ironing any more? Just curious!

Best,

Alistair

[wishful thinker]

You have the time to count them all?

Best,

Alistair

Cleary not.  The number should be at least 10 times that surely?  After all St. Susan of the Bleeding Ridiculous has posted well over 6000 times 

[mad_max2024]

Might you have room to imagine that there may be other women out there who, when they get married, begin to think that their husbands get complacent, fat and don't want to do the ironing any more? Just curious!

Best,

Alistair

Either way, if noone does the ironing, it still leads to divorce...

[pianistimo]

?  my iron has iron-on transfer on it - that won't come off.  i haven't used it in - well, i hate to say it - years.  we are still married.  if you're hot in bed that's all that matters.