things that ENRAGE you

[pianistimo]

no.  i only look for the stuff one typically looks for in novels (just kidding).  you know - the places where women get the best of men.  ie deborah driving a stake through that kings head. 

seriously - if you read things like pearl s. buck - you can see how simple and honest stories are 'life.'  you follow someone's life - it has a logical flow.  i remember reading a story of hers and saying - wow - i feel like i know this person.  i understand where they are coming from.  same with the bible.  i understand God much better -through His word. 

i don't think God was unjust anywhere in the bible. people make it out that the israelites were crude and uncivilized.  what i think was more the truth is that the philistines and the amorites and amalakites and all those 'ites' were burning up land, were destroying their harvests, and generally annoying them.  for some years the israelites would win, and for many many years the enemies would win.  it sort of all depended upon who was king and who was blessed by God for listening to his prophets or the word as given to them directly.

king david prayed and listened for God's advice.  he listened to the prophets.  even though he sinned occasionally - he always repented.  he was 'a man after God's own heart.'  so we have encouragement from the saints, too, that life was hard for everyone.  but, some did right - despite the odds.  despite the  number of the enemy.  for God - numbers don't count.  like lagin said - we might be a minority - but God is powerful.  more powerful than a two-edged sword.  (i guess most are two-edged).

[thalbergmad]

.  ie deborah driving a stake through that kings head. 

Oh, even more killing.

I must have missed that one.

[thalbergmad]

hey Thal   I was thinking of buying a tambourine, what should I get?   ok, sorry.  I just wanted to add some humour today. 

https://www.musiccorner.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=8549

This site is perfect for pianistimo.

Nice little Christian site where you can buy miniture tambourines for your kids. Just click on the sign of the fish.

Perfect.

Thal

[pianistimo]

ok.  i ordered one.  they're kinda cute.

[thalbergmad]

Yeh, you must get one for all of your children so they can start banging as soon as possible.

Hopefully, they might become proper tambourine bangers like yourself when they get older.

Thal

[lagin]

I just though of an annoyance - when people comment on the Bible, or point out faults in it when they have never even read the whole thing to get some context

[thalbergmad]

I just though of an annoyance - when people comment on the Bible, or point out faults in it when they have never even read the whole thing to get some context

Due to selective editing, i don't think anyone has read the whole thing

[pianistimo]

you can if you get into the program 'bible in a year.'  only a suggestion, thal.  not a command.

[asyncopated]

Oooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

[jpianoflorida]

I just though of an annoyance - when people comment on the Bible, or point out faults in it when they have never even read the whole thing to get some context

YES ..good point!   Lagin, where have you been? we've missed you.

[lagin]

I've been in other forums, but I bounce back and forth.  Nice to be missed, though, thanks!

Pet peeve number 2.  (related to number 1.) People who say that the Bible isn't true, or has contradictions in it, or is false, has been editted biasly, ect. without........once again.......... actually having read it through to have their own opinions rather than just repeating what they heard from someone else.  And more than that, even studing up and researching those "contradictions" for themselves.  But nobody wants to do that because that would take time and effort.  Throwing out an unresearched (I don't care if Einstein himself did the research, it's still unresearched by the person repeating the "claim") opinion takes no work, so that is usually all that is done.  And let me tell you it is ALOT of work to research to find out the truth, but worth it if one is really interested in it (the truth that is).  And it is ESPECIALLY annoying when Christians themselves haven't read it.  Then you end up with "Christians" who aren't really, because they are living in direct conflict to the principles and beliefs that they claim to follow, but probably don't even know they are due to the fact that they are claiming to follow or believe something that they don't even know since they've never bothered to look!  ........aiy.....

[prometheus]

Oooh, out of context. The holy book of god, written by bronze age people worse than the taliban can‘t possibly read like a book written by bronze age people worse than the taliban.

You must read it out of context. Out of context!

The bible has been written by many many people with many many differnet ideas. On top of that it has been translated many many times into many different different languages. Surely the only thing you can expect is the bible to contradict each other.

[pianistimo]

and, yet, it doesn't.  the prophecies tie directly from isaiah 53 (about jesus crucifixion - exactly as it happened) to the descriptions of his crucifixion in all the gospels.  and, the prophecies of daniel to revelation.  you can follow God's thoughts because they are consistent.

[cmg]

For the record, piantissimo, you don't enrage anyone.  You aren't responsible for how other people choose to feel about what you say or do.  That's their problem. 

My mom always told me that if something is really irking me it's either because 1. It's hit a nerve, or 2. I'm guilty of the same thing, and we always most readily condemn others for the faults we ourselves have. 

So in your case, I'd say, it's both.  If I was always saying that Santa Claus was real people would be, "Wierdo.  Freak.  Just ignore her."  Because everyone (with exception of little kids) knows that there is not a man with flying reigndeer who pops down chimneys.  There is not truth in my statement, so no nerves are hit.  So if nerves are being hit with your statements, then what are we saying?  Shame on you for speaking truth that might make me feel guilty?    And if it's option number 2., then maybe they should stop promoting their ideas (one being for example, that you are annoying), before they start bashing you for promoting yours. 

So anyways, I like you.

Thank you, pianistimo and lagin!  You've given me a perfect example of "folie a deux" to share with my students!  Keep up your dialogue!   

[pianistimo]

and what, may i ask, is a 'folie a deux?' 

[cmg]

and what, may i ask, is a 'folie a deux?' 

Of course, you may ask!  Google, m'dear, for a full, unbiased explanation! 

[thalbergmad]

and, yet, it doesn't.  the prophecies tie directly from isaiah 53 (about jesus crucifixion - exactly as it happened) to the descriptions of his crucifixion in all the gospels.  and, the prophecies of daniel to revelation.  you can follow God's thoughts because they are consistent.

It is amazing what stories people make up to fulfil prophecies.

The crucifixion is an excellent example.

[thalbergmad]

https://www.geocities.com/search_real/crucifixion.html

No contradictions at all then

[jpianoflorida]

https://www.geocities.com/search_real/crucifixion.html

No contradictions at all then

thal jesus god bible, thal jesus god bible,thal,jesus , god bible.    keep putting them all in the same sentence.   it will get thru to him.   thal jesus god bible.   thal is starting to believe .

[cmg]

Speaking of contradictions, did anyone see that BBC online piece about the "toasted sandwich" that people believe has the image of the Virgin on it?  And the New York Times piece about "a hacked off tree stump" found in New Jersey that is now venerated in a local church -- on it, as well, people claim to see the image of the Virgin?

Here's my question:  how can anyone see the image of an individual who has never been painted or sketched or otherwise caught for posterity in any sort of artistic representation during her lifetime?  How do they know WHAT she looks like?  Especially on a toasted sandwich 2000 some odd years later?

Maybe Her Highnessbelle (pianistimo) can enlighten us.

[mad_max2024]

How on earth did a topic about things that enrage you turn into yet another religious discussion?
 

[asyncopated]

How on earth did a topic about things that enrage you turn into yet another religious discussion?
 

All threads in the forum eventually turn religious.  You thought this was a piano forum? haha.... 

[imbetter]

All threads in the forum eventually turn religious.  You thought this was a piano forum? haha.... 

I swear to god it only gets religious if piantisimo is on the thread

[thalbergmad]

How on earth did a topic about things that enrage you turn into yet another religious discussion?
 

Check out the third post.

Pianistimo injected the religion virus into this thread, which is something she claims she never does.

Thal

[musik_man]

Check out the third post.

Pianistimo injected the religion virus into this thread, which is something she claims she never does.

Thal

Actually, look at the first post.  Pianistimo was merely defending herself from an insult.

[thalbergmad]

Actually, look at the first post.  Pianistimo was merely defending herself from an insult.

Yes, but she did not know what she was defending herself against.

The first post had no religious conotations.

She clearly injected the virus.

Thal

[burstroman]

Very few things enrage me.  Really, I can't think of any right now, but I dislike some of the put-downs here. These forums reach people with a large range of experience, ability, and knowledge.  Give them a break!

[asyncopated]

I swear to god it only gets religious if piantisimo is on the thread

Which thread is pianistimo not on?  Lets go there!!!  

Just to make this thread even more reglious, here is a list of gods and god like objects
https://folk.ntnu.no/wiborg/tableofgods/index.php?sort=name

Merry Godmas pianistimo.
Happy holidays everyone else.

[jpianoflorida]

Actually, look at the first post.  Pianistimo was merely defending herself from an insult.

YES.      The first post was an insult to pianistimo.  ADMIT IT. YOU GUYS LIKE TO IRRITATE HER, CAUSE YOU KNOW SHE WILL HAVE TO RESPOND TO YOUR IRRITATIONS, THEN IT WILL BECOME ABOUT RELIGION, THEN YOU WILL BLAME HER FOR STARTING A RELIGIOUS POST.  you guys are too much.   you are like this:

let's not talk about the color blue.

then you post   "what color is the sky"?  to set someone up.

[asyncopated]

then you post   "what color is the sky"?  to set someone up.

In london, it's mostly grey. At the moment it's at night and worse, it's foggy, so I don't really know.

[cmg]

YES.      The first post was an insult to pianistimo.  ADMIT IT. YOU GUYS LIKE TO IRRITATE HER, CAUSE YOU KNOW SHE WILL HAVE TO RESPOND TO YOUR IRRITATIONS, THEN IT WILL BECOME ABOUT RELIGION, THEN YOU WILL BLAME HER FOR STARTING A RELIGIOUS POST.  you guys are too much.   

jpianoflorida, relax, okay?  If you will carefully scrutinize our dear pianistimo's posts -- and they outnumber even Chopin's since 1836 -- you will notice that she lists to the right, so to speak, towards a Biblical interpretation of things.  We don't mind that, of course.

But we do take issue with her when she makes controversial claims based solely on pronouncements contained in That Book.  We simply ask for EVIDENCE OR PROOF to support the claims contained therein.
 

When she fails to offer evidence -- or worse, and more often, just skirts the issue with a stupefying cloud of convoluted verbiage or (even more often) simply ignores our request for clarification -- well, "j," we get a little confrontational.

One classic point that I posed to you in an earlier post (and you typically ignored) was this one, which NO CHRISTIAN HERE bothers to answer:

Here it is:

I will allow you, following Kant's lead, that there IS a God.  But, regarding The Bible, can you offer me proof that God ACTUALLY wrote it?  Where's the provenance?  Where's the PROOF of authorship?  Where's the mouldering manuscript or the granite tablet etched with the fiery finger of the Lord?

In fact, "j," there is substantial proof that many flawed mortals -- not God -- authored The Bible.  Now, I know, you are going to say next that "God inspired them."  Fine.  But that's NOT proof that God actually wrote them, you see?

You will then bring up abstract notions, such as "faith" and "grace," which we accept as states that overcome and inspire you, but, this is routinely brought up by Fundamentalists as a dodge against reason and logic, and is an impediment to productive debate.  It is not evidence.  It is only a gut feeling and gut feelings won't hold up in court or in the surgical theater of your favorite hospital when your life is on the line.  Scientific proof, however, will hold up.  It's because it is logic.  Einstein depended upon it, Galileo, Copernicus, Newton and Darwin depended upon it . . . Kant depended upon it.  The greatest thinkers who have shaped our modern world depended on it.  But not you and pianistimo.

We object to pianistimo's position because it excludes Reason and Logic, and NOT that it INCLUDES God.

This issue, as you will kindly note, is at the core of our debate with Her Highnessbelle.  Almost every post of hers is tinged with the color of religion.  Fine.  That's her charm.  But when she makes statements that condemn others (homosexuals and the unbaptised) without any other evidence than "this is what God says," then she must be prepared for debate.  Why?  Because she and you have NO evidence to offer that proves that God actually WROTE what she quotes. 

Faith is not proof or evidence.  It is simply blind belief.  You wouldn't want to go into a lawsuit if your only evidence is "belief," would you?  "I believe, your honor, that this woman defrauded me."  Where's your proof, the judge asks?  Without proof, sir, you HAVE no case.  This is called Logic.  Without which, civilizations fall into chaos.  The classical Greeks knew this.  The Romans.  The British.  The Americans once knew this but fell prey to fundamentalist Christian rantings.   

You are, of course, correct about this initial posting being critical of pianistimo.  But she was criticized for a reason:  she had earlier stated that "homosexuality = evil."  Psychoanalysts, psychologists and neuro-biologists worldwide have proven that such a charge is unwarranted, untrue and immoral.  Homosexuality, first and foremost, is NOT a choice but biologically determined -- therefore, thrust upon homosexuals by God.  Homosexuals, such as Tschaikovsky, Barber, Sain-Saens, Poulenc, Alexander the Great, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc., etc., etc., have been adjudged free of psychopathology and moral turpitude for decades now.  But, pianistimo quotes a source (That Book) that claims otherwise WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER.  Except only, of course, that God said it.  But she can't conclusively prove that God actually wrote these words.  Don't you think we have a right to confront this? 

[sirpazhan]

slow drivers

[maul]

Oh yeah, slow drivers indeed. Or especially those stick-up-the-ass agressive slow drivers (OXYMORON) who get mad when you get too close and speed up for awhile. Then slow down again. Then speed up again. Then slow down again. Then I have to pass on a double line around a blind corner while flipping them off and adjusting my car stereo volume. Joy.

[lagin]

I choose to not be annoyed........

[thalbergmad]

1. Caravans
2. Screaming babies.
3. Tall people in cinemas
4. Women who never have the right change for the bus.
5. Speed bumps
6. Speed cameras
7. The Co-operative Bank
8. Giggling girls
9. Traffic wardens
10. Tanbourine bangers
11. 7th day adventists
12. Bugs bunny
13. Camera crews
14. squeaky bed springs
15. Elibron.com
16. Amazon.com
17. Viagra e mails
18. Satie
19. Schumann
20. debussy
21. Ravel
22. Webern
23. Stockhausen
24. Slow drivers
25. Fast drivers
26. Ferry ramps
27. Railway ticket machines
28. Fruit machines
29. Condom wrappings
30. Taxi drivers who take the long route
31. Channel 5
31. On Digital
32. Direct debits
32. Credit cards
 

[counterpoint]

1. Caravans
2. Screaming babies.
3. Tall people in cinemas
4. Women who never have the right change for the bus.
5. Speed bumps
6. Speed cameras
7. The Co-operative Bank
8. Giggling girls
9. Traffic wardens
10. Tanbourine bangers
11. 7th day adventists
12. Bugs bunny
... 

Oh.

It seems to me, everything that makes life funny enrages you 

Or is it a joke? 

[jpianoflorida]

1. Caravans
2. Screaming babies.
3. Tall people in cinemas
4. Women who never have the right change for the bus.
5. Speed bumps
6. Speed cameras
7. The Co-operative Bank
8. Giggling girls
9. Traffic wardens
10. Tanbourine bangers
11. 7th day adventists
12. Bugs bunny
13. Camera crews
14. squeaky bed springs
15. Elibron.com
16. Amazon.com
17. Viagra e mails
18. Satie
19. Schumann
20. debussy
21. Ravel
22. Webern
23. Stockhausen
24. Slow drivers
25. Fast drivers
26. Ferry ramps
27. Railway ticket machines
28. Fruit machines
29. Condom wrappings
30. Taxi drivers who take the long route
31. Channel 5
31. On Digital
32. Direct debits
32. Credit cards
 

question thal.   why do you call us tambourine bangers?  I don't know a single Christian that is a tambourine banger.  Are you referring to "harry chrisners?" , see i don't even know how to spell that.   Anyway, if you are then you really are way off base to put everyone in the same category.

[thalbergmad]

Or is it a joke? 

Of course, apart from the caravans

[arbisley]

I think he was referring to the things that enrage him, not what he thinks Christians are, if I understand your post (jpianoflorida).

"3.Tall people in cinemas"
Sorry, that's me, and I always do my best to have the worst possible posture so the person behind me doesn't have a head in front of them, or I sit somewhere where no one is behind me, i.e. at the side, or back corner.

Why do you dislike Ravel Debussy and Schumann? They are some of my best-liked composers, although I understand about Stockhausen!

I know that giggling girls can be a bloody nuisance when they are obviously finding something about you extremely funny to laugh at... But I know my girlfriend does it to German guys at our school, maybe it's a certain girly thing to do which guys just don't understand. Just as there are other things about guys which girls don't understand.

Just posting a few comments on thal's list, but personally people who are just purely rude to people they don't know really piss me off, or who don't care about what you are thinking, like a guy who actually annoyed me so much I broke my plastic goggles case on his head, but that's just boarding school life.

[thalbergmad]

question thal.   why do you call us tambourine bangers?  I don't know a single Christian that is a tambourine banger.  Are you referring to "harry chrisners?" , see i don't even know how to spell that.   Anyway, if you are then you really are way off base to put everyone in the same category.

Well, you ought to come to England, there are loads of Christians with tambourines.

Go to any Salvation Army meet and you see lots. My local Baptist church has a lot of tambourines.

I think the "harry chrisners" are more drum bangers really.

Hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

Thal

[jpianoflorida]

arbisley.  I was just asking him why he refers to us that way.   You may have missed it: he had a signature that was offensive, I asked him to change it and he did(which was nice of him) to "i changed my signature to not offend tambourine bangers on the forum".   he has changed it again now.    So I was just asking him why he calls us that.  

[jpianoflorida]

Well, you ought to come to England, there are loads of Christians with tambourines.

Go to any Salvation Army meet and you see lots. My local Baptist church has a lot of tambourines.

I think the "harry chrisners" are more drum bangers really.

Hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

Thal

Yes. Thanks.  That does clarify.   Have a great day Thal!    I have to go buy a tambourine now.   Would you like me to make an audio file and send to you? I could probably learn some good tunes for you! take care bud!

[thalbergmad]

You are more than welcome, hope you get a good model.

I am thinking of starting my own Gospel Choir so any assistance would be very much appreciated.

Catch ya later, me has got to go shopping.

Thal

[prometheus]

We object to pianistimo's position because it excludes Reason and Logic, and NOT that it INCLUDES God.

Good point. If there is a god, then there is one. If there isn't one then there isn't one.

If there really were a god then what could I possibly have again her existance? Ok, I would have a lot of questions and the world we live in would be a totally different one if there truly were a god. But that's besides the point.

The problem with religious people is that they are irrational and that they have faith. And furthermore that this is a virtue.
The problem with christianity is that they believe in an absolute god, with absolute truth, absolute good and evil, etc. And the problem is that their religion either promotes or contains and supports on the myth of bronze age people that were by our standards even more cruel than the taliban.

That's the whole point.

[pianistimo]

wait.  the humanistic viewpoint is 'me first.'  how does that promote peace.  the selfish 'gene.'  as musik-man pointed out - there is no proof that a selfish gene exists.  how can something based on many atoms have an autonomous mind - as it is basically saying that all these atoms that make up the cells are programmed to help us think a certain way?  if this were so - we would be robotic.  go through the motions.

just because a brain is formed doesn't mean that psychologists and pyschiatrists can absolutely  prove that there isn't something non-physical in the brain (ie spirit) that causes our brains to be different than animal's brains.  self - consciousness.  awareness.  ability to reason.  to be aware of morality (whether christian or non-christian).

[prometheus]

You are making absolutely absoluty absolutely no sense. It seems there are more straw mans in your sentence than words.

I am now wondering if I should even try to begin to explain what is wrong with what you say.

Let me try it for the last time,

The humanistic viewpoint does not even exist, so diverse are the ideas eventhough they do share something in common that defines them all as 'humanistic'.
One thing all streams of humanism have probably in common is that they reject 'me first' because that is a silly basis for morality and one that cannot be justified though it has been tried.

The 'selfish gene' is a view put forward by Dawkins to look at Dawninian Evolution from the point of view of genes rather than individuals. This way altruism can be better explained through Darwinian means. The title of Dawkins book 'selfish gene' is merely a pun. Have you even read the book? Genes that are selfish thus make unselfish individuals.
If this is really how evolution works in detail is part of scientific debate by people that all realise darwinian evolution is part of nature.

As for free will. We don't even know if we truely have a free will. Research seems to indicate this is not the case, at least not the traditional 'absulute' view of free will.
The question is not what we would prefer, the question is what is true.

If one accepts the premise that atoms can't grand us 'free will' then the only view that can follow is that free will is impossible. There is no alternative. There is no soul theory.
If you disagree please be the first to put forth the 'soul theory' and how it explains free will and how it is based in reality rather than mere silly faith and superstition.

No, it is not impossble for there to be no soul, it is just extremely improbable. If there is a supernatural element to our brain then why can't we observe it? If we can't observe it then why can it influence our brain and our behavior? Makes no sense. The soul is an idea made up my primitive people ignorant of the world and the human body. It would be amazing if it turned out to be true.

Why don't you prove it is impossible for a 'naturalistic robot brain' such as we have, to generate 'self-consciousness.  awareness.  to be aware of morality.'

As for 'ability to reason', I won't be so bold to say that this is a natural ability of the human brain. It seems to be something that needs to be learned and trained, it seems something counter-intuitive.

Superstition has been observed in many animals. It certainly has a strong sway over human behavior and thinking. Maybe you should wonder how this is possible. It leads to all kinds of paradoxes.

Without this animal-like behavior you wouldn't be able to 'discover god'. A god that supposedly 'teaches' that a human is not an animal and does not have superstitions but has a soul that gives humans the ability to reason.

If you were to reason you would have the same view as I have.

If god truly existed and thus we truely had souls with a level of reaon that exalts mere animal behavior we would all be wise enough to realise the most reasonable thing to do is to be a nonbeliever. If we are reasonable or superstitions the fact remains the same; there is no evidence for god and one needs faith to be a theist.

If there is no god then we would be superstitious, like most animals, and we would have faith in things like god.


If everyone is an atheist tomorrow I will have a reason to consider the possibility of a god.

[pianistimo]

you'll understand the soul theory when you die and are ressurrected.  you are right.  we cannot see the proof of this theory (although Christians do through observing births).  if you believe you were born to serve God - and die serving God - you have an element of 'life' in you that is 'everlasting.'  people who do not accept Christ will not be able to perform experiments after this life to prove they made the wrong choice.  they didn't think they had a choice.  i mean, if free will produces nothing that the darwinian theory supports - then the types of governments (and what they were based upon years ago) makes NO SENSE.  if every man for himself - was believed - then divine rights were surely ignorant and to say the least - unbeneficial for entire countries.  now, i'm not saying divine rights of kings was not a system that was entirely free of corruption - but what was the REASONING behind it.  WHERE DID THAT SYSTEM COME FROM.  why kings.  who made up the idea of kingship?  darwinian model is that of apes.  they have a hierarchy - but no model of kingship.  with all the decorum.  can you explain the various shields and symbology that go very far back in history with evolutionary processes?  no.  if it was purely evolutionary - blue-blooded lines would have been disrupted eons ago.   

that is why  our governments are changing.  non-religion.  more athiestic - or - i hate to say 'occultish.'  now, what makes the occult more appealing than a traditional christian religion?  well, you no longer have the church to worry about - although some churches have occultish type backgrounds and the laypeople don't understand this. 

have you ever met anyone you 'felt' was atypical of a normal human being.  say a priest?  or a magician.  or, a person who gave you 'wierd' spine chilling feeling when you are near them?  when you are Christian - you don't judge only by feelings - but also by words.  the bible says 'by their words you shall  know them.'  so if someone is professing to be loving and giving - and then allows the rights of entire sovereign nations to become glommed onto specific agendas (like hitler's) - who can say, for absolute certainty that he DIDN't have occultish powers granted to him? 

look at charles manson's eyes - and then videos of hitler's eyes.  this is what demon possession 'looks' like.  but, then there are other people who you know by their strange behaviors and mannerisms - and also what their thought processes are.  is it for CONTROL?  controlling others.  learning methods of control. torture. sex. whatever.  people can be entirely deranged and still have positions in government.  what stops this?  people who recognize when rights are being taken away.

what rights?  the right of free speech, free will, information.  libraries and internet sites that take away some books or threads so that people cannot read them - are controlling INFORMATION.  they are CONTROLLING.  this is darwinian.  to take the lead and put technology OVER human need.  technology is good unless it gets into the wrong hands.  imo, it has been in the wrong hands since 1950's.  why do i say this.  because when nations unite to form a 'world' ruling government - they are saying people are dumb because they will accept whatever plans they come up with if they are slow and methodical to take away their rights one by one.

[prometheus]

Manson and Hitler were both Christians.


Don't be so afraid. There is no evil spirit or deamon that is going to get you. There is no god that is watching you, looking for an oppertunity to punish you.

Just let go.

[thalbergmad]

people can be entirely deranged and still have positions in government. 

And the church

[pianistimo]

true, thal.

but, not so true, imo, prometheus.  if you say 'just let go'  you may as well say 'don't worry about a thing.'  what?  do you think our forefathers fought and died so that we might be so small minded as to only care about our own existence and none of our history or our community or our country. all the hitlers and mansons are proof of evil.  evil has it's basis in free-will.  (destroying it - that is) and yet, if they were possessed - they were acting against their own free-will and people did not recognize it.

why else would Christ have bothered to talk about 'casting out demons.'  if they were not real - then the entire bible is untrue.  but, i believe there are many demons in this world.  they work to influence our minds and to give up our free-will for a seductive piece of control.  how many people are controlled.  literally controlled by drugs, money, porn, gambling, etc.  tell me that satan doesn't know what he's doing.  these people sometimes even say 'i was helpless to get out of it - at one point - and needed someone else to help me.'  why would SO MANY people say this?  imo, because satan is ALIVE AND WELL.