I am free - you are NOT ! You are brainwashed - I am not ! You are still under m

[vladimirdounin]

This is an ATTACHMENT [/u] for my article "I am free - you are not ! You are brainwashed – I am not !" in PERFORMANCE

PS from January 06. 2007.
 Now this article has an important appendix in "PERFORMANCE" page:
"STYLE" as a WHIP OF SLAVERY" Vladimir Dounin


To support this my post in “PERFORMANCE”, I have recorded a few randomly chosen pairs of absolutely different pieces with “Right” and “Left” accentuations. To avoid being influenced by any previous experience, I have chosen the music to record from my students’ repertoire which I rather sight-read Sorry for my poor pianism at these recordings: I have never worked on any of it before as seriously as I would normally for myself.

Some of my students play better than I because no one is a slave in my class. They are always FREE to choose ANY accentuation they prefer. As for me, I am not completely free yet, because my “slavery” lasted too long. However, I remember the words of Chekhov that the most important thing for any human being is : “to squeeze out the slave from ourselves drop by drop each day”.

 Can ANYONE ELSE do the same and post recordings of the same pieces or others with BOTH types of accentuation: Left and Right? Who will take up my gauntlet? Prove for yourself now, that the title of this post is NOT about you!

I hope you succeed better than I. I wish this sincerely because I do NOT want to feel alone amongst “one-sided” robots. I am sure a lot of “musical humans” are alive out there somewhere. Make yourselves known, please !

In anticipation,

Vladimir Dounin

QUOTE FROM: rc

"Hello Mr. Dounin.

That was very well written, compelling article.  Thank you, I enjoyed it.

I've backtracked and have gone through some of your older posts, I gave a quick try with inverting accents and was delighted with the result.[/size] I see your point; keeping the same accents maintains an easy coherence but becomes boring, varied accents is more interesting for the ear.  So we don't want people learning to do it only one way, because that enforces the public conception that classical music is boring."

[vladimirdounin]

Here are other 3 pieces (otherwise the system does not allow more than 4 pieces for one post) V.D.

[berrt]

You give 2 (there are many more possible, i think) different interpretations of these pieces - non of them i find particularly subversive.

So where is the political impact?

B.

[vladimirdounin]

You give 2 (there are many more possible, i think) different interpretations of these pieces - non of them i find particularly subversive.

So where is the political impact?

B.

I tried my best to make the both recordings absolutely the same (as much as possible: the same piano, room, tempo, rhythm and so on) except one HUGE difference: the accentuations. They are polar: "one - TWO - three - FOUR" or LEFT  and another is "ONE - two - THREE - four" or RIGHT. You will subvert (ruin) any of your performances if you will use ANY ONE OF THESE TWO ways to play. The both of them are handicapped like the person with only one leg. Your audience will be bored and never come to your concert again. So, there is rather economical impact - you will have no money to continue your "one - sided " concerts.

However, you will be extremely popular and beloved by any audience if you will combine THE BOTH ACCENTUATIONS (provided that you will not make other mistakes, of course). The artists with normal (both ways) music are out of competition. It is especially noticeable when they ("one - sided" and healthy one) work in the same concert with the same audience. And this is NOT a big deal to become a "both - sided" pianist - READ my article with the same name in "PERFORMANCE".
This will take just a few days of training (I have changed the minds of hundreds of my students on this topic already, and I know exactly how long it takes from the experience). Try to make any of my students "one - sided" again, if you want - we will laugh together!

I organized hundreds of concerts (my top one was "The Inauguration of the first president of Russia - B.Yeltsyn" in Kremlin with the budget of USD 226 000.  I still keep "Thanks enormous!" in writting) and could compete and win only because I always selected these NORMAL performers for all my concerts.

My "political impact" is: to be FREE, do not be brainwashed, open your eyes and ears! Try to do with me that I did here, do it better!

Good luck!

Vladimir Dounin 
 

[nervous_wreck]

you posted morning bells twice, where barcarolle was. i really wanted to hear barcarolle.

[vladimirdounin]

you posted morning bells twice, where barcarolle was. i really wanted to hear barcarolle.

Thank you very much!  I REPLACED MY RECORDING OF BARCAROLLE.

Vladimir Dounin

[m]

Dear Mr. Dounin,

I am still trying to comprehend and understand significance of the title of your thread and desperately trying to find out why you proclaim yourself  as a FREE person, reducing the rest of us mortals to be BRAINWASHED. I feel completely lost, as I am desperately trying to find out where is my fault, as according to you, whatever I do as a musician is not right.

Yes Mr. Dounin,  please, finally let us all mortals know where IS OUR FAULT!!! For example, I am still desperately trying to find out what is the core of your theory and where to find THE MUSIC. You promised to all of us mortals that you will post the essence of it--SORRY YOU NEVER DID.

Moreover, unfortunately, as I see it, you were not straight with the facts and most of threads of yours turned into some conspiracy theories (Yes, for the record, some of the names you mentioned in other threads were people I felt comfortable to call and get the other side of the story) and were rather about your quite enormous ego, rather than the fact about how you did not become a pianist... Maybe some of the members here will find your crap quite amusing, but please cut it for those who knows at least a little bit of history...

Even in this particular thread... excuse me Mr. Dounin, but listening to your examples you whether have no talent or you are waaaaaay out of practice... Either way I have no idea why would you want to post all of those... examples.... I mean... What is your point?

Do you really want to tell me I am brainwashed, or is it your way of saying that you are FREE???

Give me a break, Sir.

[vladimirdounin]

Dear Mr. Dounin,

I am still trying to comprehend and understand significance of the title of your thread and desperately trying to find out why you proclaim yourself  as a FREE person, reducing the rest of us mortals to be BRAINWASHED. I feel completely lost, as I am desperately trying to find out where is my fault, as according to you, whatever I do as a musician is not right.

Dear Marik,

I appreciate your trying to understand me and I am very sorry that you are desperate sometimes. I really need people who argues with me, who DOES NOT share my ideas and points of view! Because I am absolutely sincere in my attempts to find THE REAL TRUTH in our business, and each objection like yours prevents me from being "one-sided". I have not and I had not any attention to reduce any mortals, especially MOST VALUABLE for me ones, like you. Because you are undoubtedly a deeply thinking and very knowledgeable person. The title of my article is just the way to attract attention of many - you know these rules of the game. I need many because many will give much higher accuracy: like more pixels in printer. EVERYTHING that YOU and all the rest do in their music is RIGHT as long as your and their music is enjoyable and attracts more audience instead of preventing them from coming for the concerts at all in the future.   

Yes Mr. Dounin,  please, finally let us all mortals know where IS OUR FAULT!!! For example, I am still desperately trying to find out what is the core of your theory and where to find THE MUSIC. You promised to all of us mortals that you will post the essence of it--SORRY YOU NEVER DID.

This fault is not yours, this fault is not mine as well,  this is the fault of the whole existing system to teach music. You are just a victim, like I am and thousands of the others are. If I am trying to find the exit from the situation - it is not for me only personally: this is for everyone in music. I want everyone to have alternative routes instead of having only "the right one" that proved to be wrong, judging from the existing ignorance and hatred of the masses towards classical music.
(While in  the not so far from us Past Time people were standing days and nights on the street to listen to new opera by Verdi or Oratorio by Handel. Like I and other students were standing for Clyburn's tickets, did you see anything like this now?)   

Any posting is just an invitation for dialog. I always answer everything that is addressed to me. I respect my readers. However I respect their right to ignore my invitations as well. If I see that no one is interested in some particular topic of our conversation - what is the sense to continue this topic "solo"? 

Moreover, unfortunately, as I see it, you were not straight with the facts and most of threads of yours turned into some conspiracy theories.

Honestly, I do not like that impression from my article self. However there should be some explanation of the reasons of evil doing to music , the fact  that is obvious. And note: this is not a conspiracy at all - it is done to music openly in absolutely impudent way, in spite of indignation and protests of thousands of musicians and music lovers. I wrote my guessing - write your own then.

Yes, for the record, some of the names you mentioned in other threads were people I felt comfortable to call and get the other side of the story and were rather about your quite enormous ego, rather than the fact about how you did not become a pianist...

Thank you for taking my articles seriously and verifying the facts that I described. Now you know for sure that all  these facts really took place in the past, they are not a fiction, just made-up story.

I was glad to hear from you so familiar to me typical words from the vocabulary of my former boss Mr. Skavronsky [who deprived me of my "LICENCE TO PLAY CONCERTS" in 1986. Read the whole story in my "STYLE" as a LASH OF SLAVERY!" in PERFORMANCE], so now I know: he is still alive and active - my best regards to him.

Your "did not become a pianist" is a bit of strange for me. Judging from my papers: no one other mark except "EXCELLENT"  in my Conservatory (Moscow) and Post Graduate (St. Petesburg) diplomas - I DID become a pianist successfully. I was even one of the best pianists in All-USSR competition (I have a Diploma of it). Judging from my recent tax returns: "source of income" - I am still a pianist. Judging from my concerts and recordings, even if you do not like them, - I am again a pianist. It is your undoubted right to dislike my music and not consider me a pianist, of course, but agree, that other people have their right for opposite opinion, and even I have this right as well.   

Maybe some of the members here will find your crap quite amusing, but please cut it for those who knows at least a little bit of history...

Read, please, this quote from PERFORMANCE page:

QUOTE "MAXD":

Dear Mr. Vladimir Dounin,

thank you for your sincere interest and information.

I have been studying the relationship between freedom, culture and rhythm for a few years now, and have noticed that there were distinct periods in time when the freedom of the INDIVIDUAL was sacrificed for a pre-conceived TEACHABLE simplified version of reality.

my favourite pianists were professionals before the first world war.

after WWII the pianists up until about 1962 played with less freedom, but still an individual slant of expression.

after 1962 pianists began to be robotic, with the final blow being about 1969.

I had thought that the strictness in rhythm and style was due principally to a farm-animal type of teaching method where the farm animals are fed food on a conveyor belt...much as students received information which was generic in nature and constant in dose. (NB Vladimir Dounin)

I also thought that the invention of tape-editing and tape manipulation made it possible for recordings to be technically perfect and BEYOND CRITICISM of the media, reviewers etc..

NEVER did I consider that the soviet model was being assimilated by the western world

I WILL SAY that everything I learned about professional music was from pop records, and therefore my concept of rhythm is more advanced than the average classical student..Jazz as well as rhythm and blues was traditionally varied in rhythmic accents..

as far as classical piano, the main teachings I respect are from the writings of Chopin, and other classical pianist/composers...NEVER A TEACHER..

please, could you tell us more about the influence of censorship of culture on the lifestyle of the average citizen?

what happens to people?

what kind of other restrictions were put on musicians' interpretation and why?

Even in this particular thread... excuse me Mr. Dounin, but listening to your examples you whether have no talent or you are waaaaaay out of practice...

Do you know thousands years old commandment: "Do Not Judge!"? Today it is still good to be remembered.

I would be happy to hear and your sight-reading here (read my comments for the recordings of my sight-reading of new (for me) pieces for this particular test:
QUOTE MYSELF:

"To support this my post in “PERFORMANCE”, I have recorded a few randomly chosen pairs of absolutely different pieces with “Right” and “Left” accentuations. To avoid being influenced by any previous experience, I have chosen the music to record from my students’ repertoire which I rather sight-read Sorry for my poor pianism at these recordings: I have never worked on any of it before as seriously as I would normally for myself"

And, the most important, read my last words in my article. They are here again:

"Can ANYONE ELSE do the same and post recordings of the same pieces or others with BOTH types of accentuation: Left and Right? Who will take up my gauntlet? Prove for yourself now, that the title of this post is NOT about you!

I hope you succeed better than I. I wish this sincerely because I do NOT want to feel alone amongst “one-sided” robots. I am sure a lot of “musical humans” are alive out there somewhere. Make yourselves known, please !"

Why don't you want to do the same but     MUUUUUUUUCH    BETTER!!!!

Either way I have no idea why would you want to post all of those... examples.... I mean... What is your point?

I invite you and other readers to try this way and get the FUN that I know and you DO NOT KNOW unfortunately!

Read this from "PERFORMANCE":

QUOTE FROM "DNEPI

"A lot of what you are saying sounds like Godowsky's teaching methods.

Dear Vladimir Dounin:

He said to practice with similar variations in rythms..
... for practicing techniques, you have hit it on the dot.  Godowsky said to practice with alternating accents to no accent to negative accent, which means less than the non-accented, try various patterns, but always do their inverses so that your mind will be "free" to phrase and make the music you want to make.  Similarly, rythmic variations

About your stylistic correctness- I believe that it should be played in a similar style.  Now, it's ok to modify it somewhat, such as bach harpsichord works on the piano.  However, I believe that once one has mastered it technically, one should experiment with different interpretations, at different tempi, and different volumes to see which characters can come out." 

Do you really want to tell me I am brainwashed

At the moment I am under the impression that you have proved this fact with these comments.

Give me a break, Sir.

NO WAY, SIR! I need you too much here to refute me. Otherwise I will have only positive comments: this can make me "one-sided" and provoke my "enormous ego" to uncontrolable growth. So, help me to keep it under control.

My best wishes to you and your posts in 2007!

Vladimir Dounin

[dichu_li]

 Dear Mr.Dounin:
         
          There are two things that i dont understand here: what is this "Freedom" your talking about? And how exactly that we are under SLAVERY of "STYLE"??
             
                                                                                                        Dichu Li

[vladimirdounin]

Dear Mr.Dounin:
         
          There are two things that i dont understand here: what is this "Freedom" your talking about? And how exactly that we are under SLAVERY of "STYLE"??
             
                                                                                                        Dichu Li

I am talking about the freedom to play like you love it and believe that it should be played like that. The audience will never enjoy your music if YOU do not enjoy your playing self. This vital condition of our art is ignored frequently and maybe even forgotten.

If nobody is punished for "wrong style" in their costums, cuisine, architecture of the house, book of stories or poems etc., why then only musician can be under severe attack for "style" of his/her performance if nobody can not even define the mentioned "style" accurately? Style advisers are more than welcomed, of course, but music is not the right place for Style Police or Executioners.

Any performance that brought real joy to the audience and will bring this audience back  to another concert is 1 000 times better, than any stylistically perfect concert with empty seats and disappeared audience at the end.

V.D.

[m]

Do you know thousands years old commandment: "Do Not Judge!"? Today it is still good to be remembered.

True, I should not have said even a tenth part what I did, but please take into consideration lately I am particularly grampy and cranky due to the fact I just quit "cold turkey" 28 years of  very heavy smoking, and much easier get provocked to speak my mind. In any case I'd gladly erase whole my message, apologize, and let you practice your "freedom of speach", so you could write whatever you wish...

Oh, and BTW, following your logic, wouldn't be calling all of us "brainwashed" is a judgement?

Best, M

[vladimirdounin]

True, I should not have said even a tenth part what I did, but please take into consideration lately I am particularly grampy and cranky due to the fact I just quit "cold turkey" 28 years of  very heavy smoking, and much easier get provocked to speak my mind. In any case I'd gladly erase whole my message, apologize, and let you practice your "freedom of speach", so you could write whatever you wish...

Oh, and BTW, following your logic, wouldn't be calling all of us "brainwashed" is a judgement?

Best, M

Dear Marik,

Do not mention this at all. This is a clash of ideas and they do not need any apologies. If you do not believe my words then this is your normal duty to verify them, and you just did your job as an honest opponent. I appreciate your attacks - they can help to find the truth eventually, or come closer at least. They prove that you are emotinal about our art, and I am sure that piano art would be more prosperous if anyone will be like you.
So, do your job here as an opponent without any hesitation and reservations!

Friend of mine, who brought me to South Africa, had the same problem with smoking. However, when I had discussed with his spouse the possibility of calling my sister for helping him to quit (she is a specialist in inserting special needles into ear to stop this habit), my friend promised to cut off his own ears immediately as soon as the plain with my sister will land in South Africa. 
So, I can only applaud your decision to quit smoking. Remember however an old joke:"It is very easy to quit smoking - I did it hundreds of times already."

All the best,

Vladimir Dounin

[vladimirdounin]

[author=vladimirdounin link=topic=22512.msg250845#msg250845 date=1167312277]

 Can ANYONE ELSE do the same and post recordings of the same pieces or others with BOTH types of accentuation: Left and Right?

I hope you succeed better than I.  I am sure a lot of “musical humans” are alive out there somewhere. Make yourselves known, please !

In anticipation,

Vladimir Dounin


QUOTE FROM: rc

"Hello Mr. Dounin.

That was very well written, compelling article.  Thank you, I enjoyed it.

I've backtracked and have gone through some of your older posts, I gave a quick try with inverting accents and was delighted with the result.[/size] I see your point; keeping the same accents maintains an easy coherence but becomes boring, varied accents is more interesting for the ear.  So we don't want people learning to do it only one way, because that enforces the public conception that classical music is boring."

[rob47]

I just quit "cold turkey" 28 years of  very heavy smoking,

thats amazing!

good luck and in the words of rob schneider: "YOU CAN DO IT!"