Is my playing too mechanical?

[aaron_ginn]

I finally videotaped myself playing the Chopin Nocturne I've been working on (Op. 9/1).  I'm finally getting to the point where I can play almost all of it without too many problems.  I still have work to do on the last portion of the piece though, particularly the section with 20ths in the RH.

My concern is that my playing is too mechanical.  I'm able to maintain a pretty consistent tempo throughout the piece (although it's still a tad slow, IMO), but it almost seems too consistent, as if I'm not playing with enough emotion.  Granted, I don't expect to play like Rubinstein, but I don't want to put anyone listening to sleep, either!

Any opinions are welcome.  Also, please forgive the problems at the end.  I thought I heard the video camera go off and I turned and looked and lost my concentration.  I can actually play the end of this well.  Also, please excuse my horribly out-of-tune piano!  Here's the link:

Thanks,
Aaron

[nicco]

My advice would be go see a teacher because technically you have no idea what you are doing. And there is pretty much no dynamic variation. Im not trying to be cruel here, but if you want to be good at this you need someone to help you, and a teacher is the best way.

[counterpoint]

My advice would be go see a teacher because technically you have no idea what you are doing.

What a weird comment.

Definitely Aaron knows, what he is doing! And that he asks, if he is playing "too mechanical" shows, that he is aware of some things missing in his playing.
So what is missing? It's the freedom of tempo. Aaron, you have a very unflexible tempo, I could (in my imagination) hear the metronome ticking while you play. In this Nocturne, the left hand plays eighth notes all the time, and that gets very tiring, if there are not some ritardandi and accelerandi at suitable places. And some moments of breathing at the end of melodic phrases. If the character of the music changes (it should change often), there also will be a change in dynamics and tempo.
You have a very nice, sensible tone, so that's not the problem. Only get more freedom in playing the music and it will sound wonderful!

Good work, nice playing!

[aaron_ginn]

My advice would be go see a teacher because technically you have no idea what you are doing. And there is pretty much no dynamic variation. Im not trying to be cruel here, but if you want to be good at this you need someone to help you, and a teacher is the best way.

I was looking for something a little more constructive, but hey, thanks for the brutal honesty!   In actuality, I have neither the time nor money for lessons so I won't be taking up your advice.

This is the first time I've taped myself playing this piece and it came as a little bit of a shock.  It sounded much more mechanical than I had imagined.  Anyway, I didn't expect to be able to play this piece perfectly yet.  I've only been working on it since mid November and I've only been playing piano since last June.  Obviously, I still have much to learn, but it's a lifelong journey and I'm in no hurry.

[penguin_pianist]

You just need more dynamical and tempo variation, it's not as bad as nicco says. I'm about the same level as you and my teacher says I do this a lot, you just need to pay attention to the markings and you will be fine.

It sounds really nice except for the end when you messed up. Keep playing!

[nicco]

You just need more dynamical and tempo variation, it's not as bad as nicco says. I'm about the same level as you and my teacher says I do this a lot, you just need to pay attention to the markings and you will be fine.

It sounds really nice except for the end when you messed up. Keep playing!

Reviewing my reaction i guess i was a bit hard Sorry about that. But you have something to learn about relaxing the hands and body when playing, you look incredibly tense! And this kind of philosofy is best to be shown to you by a teacher, as internet guidance often can be misleading.

Good Luck though

[aaron_ginn]

Reviewing my reaction i guess i was a bit hard Sorry about that. But you have something to learn about relaxing the hands and body when playing, you look incredibly tense! And this kind of philosofy is best to be shown to you by a teacher, as internet guidance often can be misleading.

Good Luck though

No problem.  I have very thick skin.

This is the first Romantic piece I've worked on.  I've mainly been playing Bach and I think it's affecting the way I play the nocturne.  I understand what you're saying about being tense.  It's something I'm trying to work on and I'm actually making progress.  You should have seen me play last summer!

[infectedmushroom]

You can play the piece, so you've already accomplished the important thing!


Now it's time to add dynamics and feeling to the piece. What are your feelings when you play this piece!?... Think of what you feel while playing this piece and add it into your playing. You don't need to move your body, or doing some facial expressions. You just have to add the feeling into the music, because that's what the people are listening to.


And, I see you don't take lessons or anything!? I think you can be proud of yourself, playing this piece without having a teacher!

[mdshimazu]

I agree with most of what i saw above. You do a very good job for being without a teacher, I was a mess before I started taking lessons. It's still a good idea to get a teacher though.

Romantic music is very big on dynamics. As a start off point, in the melody that starts the whole piece off, try starting from a piano and then crescendoing to perhaps a mezzo forte on the repeating notes.

Just a tiny note, your wrist seems just a tiny bit high to me, try to have the top of the hand flat with the arm. I sometimes like it even a bit concave up, so the top of the hand is a angled slightly upward from the arm.

[dazed]

Hi Aaron, if you dont have a teacher it may be worth trying pick up a copy of Eleanor Bailie's "Chopin, a Graded Practical Guide" - I find it very useful...  providing guidance about how to learn each specific Chopin piece, as well as a general introduction about playing Chopin and a list of his works by grade; Op 9 #1 being grade 8!  There are some used copies on Amazon UK and USA.  Good luck...

[shortyshort]

So what is missing? It's the freedom of tempo. Aaron, you have a very unflexible tempo, I could (in my imagination) hear the metronome ticking while you play.

I had this problem when teaching one of my daughters.
"Get that metronome out of your head".

Can you hear what you're playing when you're playing it??
I know when i'm learning a piece it sounds mechanical, because i'm concentrating on the notes. But after a while, when my fingers know where they're going, I start to really hear the music that i'm playing. Thats when the feeling starts to appear.

Shorty

[aaron_ginn]

Hi Aaron, if you dont have a teacher it may be worth trying pick up a copy of Eleanor Bailie's "Chopin, a Graded Practical Guide" - I find it very useful...  providing guidance about how to learn each specific Chopin piece, as well as a general introduction about playing Chopin and a list of his works by grade; Op 9 #1 being grade 8!  There are some used copies on Amazon UK and USA.  Good luck...

That's the second time someone here has recommended that book.  I will definately look into it as I am planning on playing a lot more Chopin in the future.

Thanks!

[aaron_ginn]

I had this problem when teaching one of my daughters.
"Get that metronome out of your head".

Can you hear what you're playing when you're playing it??
I know when i'm learning a piece it sounds mechanical, because i'm concentrating on the notes. But after a while, when my fingers know where they're going, I start to really hear the music that i'm playing. Thats when the feeling starts to appear.

Shorty

Yes, this makes complete sense.  I'm just beginning to grasp the music and things are flowing much more naturally now than they were.  In fact, after some of these comments I went back and tried to play more freely than before and I already noticed an improvement.  I think I was also holding back in my playing to some extent, afraid of "laying it on too thick" in terms of emotion.  I am by nature a pretty laid-back, unemotional person and what I perceived as being adequate freedom of playing turned out to be pretty bland.

[steve_m]

j

[piazzo23]

Well, not really. Phrasing, Dynamics, Hand and body positions are incorrect or non-existant.

Still, for someone teaching themself how to play, it's pretty impressive.

I haven´t seen the video, but incorrect hand and body positions. I can only imagine a guy in four legs... 

[imbetter]

It's not like playing mechanicaly is a bad thing. Have you ever heard of rubato?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubato

id suggest you read this

[mekohler]

My piano teacher, who attended the top conservatory in Russia, says that Rubato should never be used by a beginning student. Alot of people add rubato thinking that that's the style or what you should do...if the composer wanted rubato he would have specified so in the piece...alot of people add rubato wherever they want, most noticeably to me in Chopin pieces, but it's frowned upon by any serious classical pianist.

[imbetter]

My piano teacher, who attended the top conservatory in Russia, says that Rubato should never be used by a beginning student. Alot of people add rubato thinking that that's the style or what you should do...if the composer wanted rubato he would have specified so in the piece...alot of people add rubato wherever they want, most noticeably to me in Chopin pieces, but it's frowned upon by any serious classical pianist.

My teacher specified rubato in a lot of field/chopin nocturnes ive played previously

[counterpoint]

alot of people add rubato wherever they want, most noticeably to me in Chopin pieces, but it's frowned upon by any serious classical pianist.

Could you please name some "serious classical pianist(s)", who do not play rubato in almost any piece?

I do not believe, that there does exist one!

[piazzo23]

Could you please name some "serious classical pianist(s)", who do not play rubato in almost any piece?

I do not believe, that there does exist one!

michelangeli??
Anyway, I would never get it.
His Ravel G concerto... well.. hanon like. IMO. And i´m not talking about speed here...