Durability and Life of Bosendorfers/Steinways

[768897]

Forum members,
I am in the process of choosing new instruments for an institution and wish to solicit opinions about the most durable (lots of practice hours) and the brand that tends to have the least tuning/maintenance problems.  (I realize that each piano and each brand has its' own life and appeal.)
For those who either own, play on, or have a friend or relative who owns one of the brands mentioned in the subject, please let me know all the difficulties and/or frustrations you've experienced.  I'm also interested in reading about wonderful experiences too!  Thanks.
768897

[dinosaurtales]

Well, my experience has been that Bosendorfers are beautiful pianos.  Light to the touch, wonderful to play.  That said, I would NOT recommend one for institutional use.  I looked at several Bosendorfers of various sizes in my search a year ago.  My understanding from my research is that they are not particularly *sturdy* for getting moved around a lot, pounded on by students, etc.  They are built the *old-fashioned* way - where they bend the rim in one piece - it's connected to the soundboard not for sound purposes,but for reinforcement.  Technicians correct me if I am wrong!?  

I suspect that Steinway would be a better long-term choice.  Have you looked at the new Mason and Hamlins?  The 2 guys that own taht company now have set oiut to re-think and build top-quality pianos.  These guys are serious.  I played soime of their newest ones and they are incredible compared to Masons of old.  As they continue to improve their product, I suspect in a couple of years they'll make a piano that'll knock your socks off.  also, don't forget Baldwin.  I don't know the status of the company these days, but their pianos are more sturdy than others.

[G.Fiore]

Dino,you're a little off on the Bosie review.They are very durable instruments,and will last just as long,usually longer, as Steinway,Mason,and the other top tier pianos.As you stated,they do not use a continous bent rim.Instead,they incorporate a hard beech inner rim,but the outer rim is made up of slats of spruce,slit to bend to the rims form,then the slats sre filled in to complete the rim.The philosophy is that the instruments acoustical body,the soundboard and rim, will vibrate as one unified body,like that of the violin.

[dinosaurtales]

So you think a Bosendorfer would be ok for an institution like a school?  I just cringe when I think about how beat up those pianos get.  Somehow the thought of a chipped up beat up Bosendorfer makes me wanna cry.

[768897]

Dino-
Your concern, then, is more with the eventual condition and possible abuse of the bosenforfers?  These pianos would be placed in auditoriums, locked practice rooms, piano studios, and other rehearsal spaces.  Would that make any difference to your initial opinion?  
Thanks- folks- appreciate your reponses.

[eddie92099]

I don't know why but my school seems to keep impulse buying Bosendorfers,
Ed

[dinosaurtales]

Dino-
Your concern, then, is more with the eventual condition and possible abuse of the bosenforfers?  These pianos would be placed in auditoriums, locked practice rooms, piano studios, and other rehearsal spaces.  Would that make any difference to your initial opinion?  
Thanks- folks- appreciate your reponses.

I suppose.  It's just when I see practice room pianos, locked or not, pounded on the way they are, I just picture the ad in the paper for a live-in piano technician!  Just seems that those super high-end pianos are a tad *fussier* than others, if only because they sound SOOOOOO good when they are prepped, and it's so obvioius when they are out.

[Axtremus]

Was talking to a piano teacher cum local art society director person from Taiwan the other day. He told a story of the Taiwanese National Art Gallery bought three Bösendorfers and shortly found the Bösies literally unplayable as all the keys got stuck because of Taiwan's extraordinarily high humidity! They had to hire experts to seal the gallery and put in dehumidifiers to rescue/maintain the Bösendorfers. And you don't see this kind of problems with Japanese pianos so common all over Asia in non-climate-controlled venues. I don't know 768897's local climate, but if its as humid as Taiwan, then I guess you might want to check if the Bösendorfers can withstand your climate -- that, or make sure the venue you put the pianos in is climate-controlled.

As for the Steinway, truth be told, I've never come across a good one in practice rooms and rehearsal rooms. They all need maintenance. For some reason, I just cannot imagine either Steinway or Bösendorfer as needing less tuning/maintenance than most other pianos. (IMHO, for institutional use, I'd probably buy cheaper pianos and save the money for regular/better maintenance if the money is not enough for both.)

[e60m5]

Realistically, if you are looking to buy a pianos for a musical education institute, you should buy Steinway, if for no other reason than you want to prepare your students as best as possible for the concert stage - upon which there will mostly be Steinways.

[Bosendorfer_214]

Bosendorfers are very fine instruments, and they are very VERY durable. I highly recomend them for instutional use.  I have a Bosendorfer 214 that my parents purchased for me last April. It recieves relentless use for about 4 hrs a day.  I have nothing but priase for it's performance.  It is an incredible piano with a tone that is unparalleled.  Two good friends of mine have Bosendorfers, a 225 and another 214 and they are very happy with their pianos.  Also, my teacher has a Bosendorfer 214 in his studio at the univeristy.  It is also responding positively to all the use it receives.  Before he became a Bosendorfer Artist, he had a Steinway B in the studio that had many problems.  It had absolutely no tunning stability, it was terribly out of regulation, and had an unpleasent tone.  This school is known as a Steinway school.  However, the school is growing to like its Bosendorfers. In their concert hall, they have a NY Steinway, a Hamburg Steinway and........you guessed it, a brand new Bosendorfer 280.  And guess what piano gets the star-treatment?

My 2 cents-

Nick

[Piano-Job]

My experience in the royal conservatory in The Hague, Netherlands is: for students they have a lot of Yamaha C3 and Some Steinway B's. The Yamahas are really very stable. Its a good piano and not that expensive.

A lot depends on how the climate control is. It doesn't matter really if you have a Steinway or a Bösendorfer, everybody is able to ruin these instruments within a year if you have a very wet summer and a very dry winter, the crown of the soundboard will be gone and the tonal quality will be zero. Both instruments are made of wood, and wood reacts allways in the same way on the climate. So why spend a lot, if you will find a very good alternative for less.

[Hmoll]

A lot depends on how the climate control is. It doesn't matter really if you have a Steinway or a Bösendorfer, everybody is able to ruin these instruments within a year if you have a very wet summer and a very dry winter, the crown of the soundboard will be gone and the tonal quality will be zero. Both instruments are made of wood, and wood reacts allways in the same way on the climate. So why spend a lot, if you will find a very good alternative for less.

There are three main areas  in judging the quality and durability of a piano. They are design, workmanship, and materials. Two other areas that have to do with quality but not durability are tone and touch. These last two are somewhat subjective.

There is nothing wrong with the design of Yamahas, but the workmanship and materials is not on a par with either Bosendorfer or Steinway.

[768897]

"There is nothing wrong with the design of Yamahas, but the workmanship and materials is not on a par with either Bosendorfer or Steinway."


I agree, my understanding is that the Yamaha is a massed-produced instrument--already different from the Bose/Stein.
Do you, the readers, agree that the pianos that are less expensive initially could cost an individual/institution more over the life of that same instrument?

768897-

[peter_g_moll]

I was fortunate enough to be able to buy a Boesendorfer 225 two years ago.  After 2 initial tunings it retained its stability adequately for my purposes for a year and a half before I had to have it tuned again.  I played, on average, about 3 hours a day.  Where I live it is extremely humid in summer and due to heating in winter it becomes extremely dry.  The DamppChaser helps to stabilize the humidity level and I use a humidifier in the room as well during winter.

I think the stability arises from Boesendorfer's superior workmanship, from the DamppChaser, and from the design of the instrument, which has one pin for each string.

[Bosendorfer_214]

Peter-

I agree with most of your post.  However, the individual stringing has nothing to do with tunning stability.  It is merely a convienence.  If a string on a Bosendorfer were to break in concert, it can be removed, and that particular note will still have 2 other useable strings. (assuming that is not a copper wound string) Loop stringing is just as good, yet when a string breaks, 2 of the 3 strings for that note are lost.  Or possibly the first string of the neighboring note. Hope this clarifys.  

BTW- Tunning once every year in a half? Sounds a bit sparce to me.

Cheers