The earth was so much better till...

[ihatepop]

...us humans got here.

It pains me to even speak about this but natural disasters are not the most destructive force on earth. Humans are. Who slaughtered animals as a sport? Who started global warming? Who invented horrible weapons that could end life on earth as we know it?

I ensure you, one day, humans will totally wipe themselves and the world out.

Unless we do something.....*sheds a tear*

ihatepop

[preludium]

Man is natural, therefore all these rants about man against nature are nonsense and delusion of grandeur. If insects had found a way to be the dominant species on earth, they would ruin it as well. Cats play with mice before they kill them. They do it just for the fun of it. Life is cruel and a contradition to itself. When a male lion takes the leadership of a pack it first kills all the cubs.

Animals can survive only by eating one another. Some animals have no way to defend themselves and exist only as a prey for others. What did they do to deverse this? They completely exhaust their forces in searching food for themselves and their offspring, for the only reason that the next generation can continue this absurd game. Who is too weak for this race will be erased from the face of the earth without mercy.

Thus far no man has entered the scene yet.

[rc]

Two sides of the coin:  the same nature that gave birth to everything brings death (disease, natural disasters, hunter/prey).  The same humanity that creates nuclear weaponry creates nuclear power.  For all the cruel and unusual people, this is also the same race that gave birth to Mozart, Churchill, Ghandi...

So far those with the power to blow up the world also have enough intelligence not to, I have faith in humanity.

[prometheus]

If insects had found a way to be the dominant species on earth, they would ruin it as well.

That's the point. It isn't about if man is 'natural' or not. It is about what the influence of humans is on earth. And it is a very dominant influence, significant influence, etc etc.

Yes, if an insect would be as dominant as man is the earth would be in trouble also.

But... do you really want to compare man's ability to think about her actions and consider the effect her behavior has on the planet to that of an insect?

Insects would not only have no choice, insects have no morality at all. Humans have the potential to exalt above animals.

If you really believe man is just another form of vermin condemned to dominate the earth and destroy it if that is what happens naturally and if you are really right about this then I just have lost one of my main reasons why I do not call for the extinction of man.

But I think humans should be judged harsher than insects because they do have the potential to take care of this planet.

[preludium]

But... do you really want to compare man's ability to think about her actions and consider the effect her behavior has on the planet to that of an insect?

No, I was just replying to the initial post, where it was claimed that the earth would be better off without humans. This is a common misconception. I left the post with an open end on purpose, so that everyone could think about whether things that are normal in animal life could be imagined in a human society, especially today.

[mad_max2024]

The Earth doesn't care wether or not it has humans on it's surface. Nothing is good or bad for the earth.
It simply exists...
To say the Earth would be better off without humans is to see that event from a human perspective, which would be pointless since there would be no humans to have such perspective.

[prometheus]

Ok of course anthropomorphising the earth is not a good approach.

But the idea is that we are damaging or destroying life and life should be respected. The gaia idea is that the whole earth can be seen as one big organism. Surely we are harming this organism.

In that respect of course the earth would be better off without humans.


We have got everything to thank to earth. When will we do something back for planet earth? Eventhough it has no mind or interests?

[ahinton]

Ok of course anthropomorphising the earth is not a good approach.

But the idea is that we are damaging or destroying life and life should be respected. The gaia idea is that the whole earth can be seen as one big organism. Surely we are harming this organism.

The gaia notion, whilst undoubtedly based on sound sense, is nevertheless exposed as inherently daft as soon as its followers and advocates try to encourage others to put certain activities into practice in the interests of "saving the planet" in the oh-so-moralising holier-than-thou manner in which so many of them are all too often prone to do.

In the thread about Global Warming I have made a number of comments on this kind of thing (albeit without specifically mentioning the gaia concept) so will not repeaet them here, except to say that these adherents almost invariably tend to base their ideas on the notion that all climate and other physical changes to our earth have been exclusively (a) bad) and (b) man-made. Not only are both these claims untrue, but they imply that nothing of any positive use has ever been done by humans to solve any problems thereby caused; that this latter in incorrect is demonstrable simply by examining progress on air pollution in UK where, whilst that caused by motor vehicles has indeed risen substantially, that generated by the corporate and individual use of coal and similar products has fallen even more, with the net effect that the so-called "pea-souper" smogs that once afflicted London and the health of Londoners (especially those with adverse respiratory predispositions) are now mercifully a thing of the past. Air pollution in urbanised parts of UK is still a problem, of course; only the substitution of fossil fuel use with suitable and viable alternative fuel use will likely solve that.

Since humanity possesses the highest intelligence of all creatures on earth, it does indeed behove humans to act responsibly as custodians of the planet; of this there can be no doubt. Accordingly, I am no supporter of some of those human activities (mainly during and since the industrial revolution) that have involved the relentless pursuit of "progress" without due consideration for the consequences - in other words, without due concern for the extent to which actual "progress" is achieved thereby.

That said, it is up to humans to exercise their ingenuity to create adequate supplies of energy and potable water for everyone and to find ways to dispose of waste sensibly; this does not have to - and in any case never will - involve successful attempts to turn back the clock to pre-industrialised times and accordingly dictate far lower general consumption and expectations that is the case today, for that clock simply cannot be turned back, as one cannot undo research and its outcome as though it had never occurred.

"Saving the planet" is, likewise, a daft notion in and of itself; it's abit like that of "saving money" in and of itself. One should ideally save money only for a particular reason and purpose and in as planned a way as possible (always assuming that it's possible to save any at all); likewise, we should be trying to maximise the earth's potential fully and in sustainable ways, in the interests and for the general benefit of humans and all other living creatures on it, rather than for the planet itself, which has no consciuosness. As mad_max2024 rightly wrote:

"The Earth doesn't care wether or not it has humans on it's surface. Nothing is good or bad for the earth.
It simply exists...
To say the Earth would be better off without humans is to see that event from a human perspective, which would be pointless since there would be no humans to have such perspective."

So - the idea of "saving the planet" makes no sense in and of itself, but acting responsibly to save - and to pave the way for further development of - the earth's living species not only makes good sense but is wholly vital to the future of humanity.

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

you're so funny alistair.  comparing 'saving the planet' to 'saving money.'  but, you know - you're right.  it just goes anyways. 

i think the earth was so much better until...this morning when we had to put an identifying 'pass mark' into our computer for banking safety.  thankfully we could pick which one we wanted.  i certianly don't want the one that looks like a medical symbol (snake wrapped around a pole).  i mean - who comes up with these things?  and, for what purpose?

we were told 'a skimming operation has affected anumber of debit, ATM, and credit card holders in bucks and montgomery county.'  therefore -this mark and the other passwords were necessary for security.  so then, i look up in the newspaper about this 'skimming operation' and don't find anything about it.  so - we're in effect told that this procedure is NECESSARY to banking now - because of blah blah blah.

i'm just sitting here waiting for the next crazy thing to happen in this world. 

[ahinton]

i think the earth was so much better until...this morning when we had to put an identifying 'pass mark' into our computer for banking safety.  thankfully we could pick which one we wanted...we were told 'a skimming operation has affected anumber of debit, ATM, and credit card holders in bucks and montgomery county.'  therefore -this mark and the other passwords were necessary for security.  so then, i look up in the newspaper about this 'skimming operation' and don't find anything about it.  so - we're in effect told that this procedure is NECESSARY to banking now - because of blah blah blah.

Watch out! I get lots of emails like this and they are just spam from people trying to otain banjk details rather than actually being from a bank; I know this not only because there is know to be a lot of this kind of thing going on but also because none of these emails comes from anyone purporting fraudulently to be representing any bank with which I actually have an account!

i certianly don't want the one that looks like a medical symbol (snake wrapped around a pole).

We're not getting back to pole dancing yet again, are we?! It sounds to me as though you're really good at it if only you were prepared to admit it...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

ahinton, you are an obsessed man.  i only mentioned once this fantasy of my husbands - and you have blown it into sky high proportions.  what is this facination men have for women winding around a pole.  i admit - i would be very good at doing the simply once around - but any more than that - and frankly i would be dizzy.  i don't do well at this kind of thing - especially on short notice.

similar to playing piano - i believe these things take a lot of practice and time.  something my husband - funnily - will not allow.  although at one point i left the house with the intention of finding someone to teach me how so he would just shut up about it.  then, he goes and says it's not that important.  well, which is it?  frankly, i'm really confused alistair.  i don't want him wishing he had something he doesn't have.

should i try to learn from a book - like my husband suggests.  or, do you think this might lead somewhere like a 'gps system gone wild.' 

[ahinton]

ahinton, you are an obsessed man.

Perhaps so - my excuse is that I am a composer, after all - but the obsession is not with pole dancing, or indeed any other kind of dadncing, believe me!

i only mentioned once this fantasy of my husbands - and you have blown it into sky high proportions.

I think you mentioned it more than once, actually - and I've not "blown it" into anything!

what is this facination men have for women winding around a pole.

I don't know; you'd better ask a man that is so fascinated.

i admit - i would be very good at doing the simply once around - but any more than that - and frankly i would be dizzy.  i don't do well at this kind of thing - especially on short notice.

You couldn't honestly admit that without having tried it, now could you?!

similar to playing piano - i believe these things take a lot of practice and time.  something my husband - funnily - will not allow.  although at one point i left the house with the intention of finding someone to teach me how so he would just shut up about it.  then, he goes and says it's not that important.  well, which is it?  frankly, i'm really confused alistair.  i don't want him wishing he had something he doesn't have.

should i try to learn from a book - like my husband suggests.  or, do you think this might lead somewhere like a 'gps system gone wild.' 

Again, it's really no use asking me, for I have no idea. I do not, however, imagine that learing any kind of dancing exclusively from a book would be a lot more use than trying to learn how to drive by the same kind of means, but that's about the extent to which I can usefully surmise here, I think. That said, surely you don't actually mean here that your husband doesn't allow you time to practise the piano? If you do indeed mean that, perhaps you need a change of husband...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

ahinton, admit it.  you keep bringing pole dancing into everything i talk about.
ps thanks for the advice about scammers. 

[ahinton]

ahinton, admit it.  you keep bringing pole dancing into everything i talk about.

Everything? Whast nonsense! When you used to write far more profusely about matters Christian / God-oriented / Biblical, etc. than you have so far done this year and I responded to some of your observations, claims, etc., I never mentioned pole-dancing once! (and I would hardly have made any sense if I had done so, since I am unaware of there being much reference to it in the Bible or other Christian literature). Indeed, I have only ever referred to pole-dancing in this forum in response to your having mentioned it. So - there you have it! - Pianistimo, Pole-dancing Princess of Pianoforum!

Anyway, to return to the topic, "the earth was so much better until" Pianistimo began to mention pole-dancing on Pianofurm. Just kidding. Actually, I really don't think that this is a viable thread at all; it's just too much like a mean of invinting rants along the lines of it having all been far better in those past times that we can't actually remember accurately any more...

ps thanks for the advice about scammers. 

You're more than welcome.

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

silent prayer.  (yes.  ahinton is truly as crazy as i).

[ahinton]

silent prayer.  (yes.  ahinton is truly as crazy as i).

Oh, come on, P.; MUCH more so, surely!...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

alistair,  are you already working on your next composition - or do they suck the life out of you and you have to wait a certain proscribed amount of time before attempting the next?  and what say you about how haydn handled writing symphonies.  someone mentioned here his absolute admiration of how haydn could write everything by hand (20 parts for symphony) - but this is all in a day's work for you, too!  alistair - do you use notion or sibelius or anything like that to hear your parts all together?  or, do you simply use the piano and hope for the best (knowing how the instruments sound?).

and, lastly, alistair - what do you do with your free time.  or is it all taken up by pianoforum?  and - where did you go on that quiet vacation of yours?  nyc?

[mycrabface]

I'm doing an art project. It tells of the end of the world, where humans die because no matter what/how they destroy the earth, nature is a zillion times more powerful and one day, if we aren't careful, nature will strike and leave the total annihilation of mankind.

[nanabush]

You know what f**cking scares me... ppl own things that could wipe out cities... how scary is that, scarier than any force of nature if you ask me.

[wishful thinker]

Mr. Hinton,

You are accused of being obsessed by pole dancing?



I'm not surpised.  Chopin, of whom no doubt you have heard, was similarly obsessed.  I do like a good mazurka myself 

Perhaps you should compose yourself? 

[ahinton]

Mr. Hinton,

You are accused of being obsessed by pole dancing?

Apparently - albeit quite wrongly (and only by one forum member!)

I'm not surpised.  Chopin, of whom no doubt you have heard, was similarly obsessed.  I do like a good mazurka myself 

Perhaps you should compose yourself? 

I think that joke's been done before here, somewhere - and almost certainly in relation to P.'s reference to pole dancing, too. Szymanowski must have had a similar obsession to the one you illustrate here, since he is known to have composed almost half as many mazurkas for piano as did Chopin before him.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

alistair,  are you already working on your next composition - or do they suck the life out of you

Both!

what say you about how haydn handled writing symphonies.  someone mentioned here his absolute admiration of how haydn could write everything by hand (20 parts for symphony)

In Haydn's time, this was pretty much usual practice; Mozart almost always worked that way. So did Shostakovich, much nearer our own time - indeed, he could hardly have composed and notated his hour-long Eighth Symphony in a mere three weeks had he worked any other way. These days, of course - and, indeed, in the days since Brahms - composers handle far more complex textures and structures than was the case in Haydn's day and this is principally why far fewer composers notate orchestral music straight into full score.

but this is all in a day's work for you, too!  alistair

Well, it does happen to be my preferred way of working, although I rarely if ever write at anything like the speed at which Haydn and Mozart did!

do you use notion or sibelius or anything like that to hear your parts all together?  or, do you simply use the piano and hope for the best (knowing how the instruments sound?).
I don't do either. I never use the piano when composing, except occasionally to check certain passages afterwards; this is not because I consider eschewing notation playback software, the piano or anything else to be any kind of virtue - I just find that, when trying to think things through, the piano is a distraction to my concertrative powers (such as they may be) - I discovered this yearw ago and have ever since for that reason avoided resorting to it as an aid to composition processes.

and, lastly, alistair - what do you do with your free time.  or is it all taken up by pianoforum?

Now that last question's a cracker coming from you, who must spend more time of the forum than almost anyone else!  The answer to your first is eat, drink, sleep, walk, listen to music, occasionally go to the theatre, galleries, etc. and do all the usual chores that most others also do (shopping, banking, mailing, etc.); apologies for the not very interesting nature of that answer...

and - where did you go on that quiet vacation of yours?  nyc?

Would it ever be possible to have a "quiet vacation" in "nyc"? Anyway, I went to France - specifically to the south-east Charente, about 100km north-east of Bordeaux.

Best,

Alistair

[ramseytheii]

I have to confess, I read the first three posts, then went to the end to see how the discussion was developing, and found myself totally confused.  Earth better off without Polish folk dancing.... ?!

Walter Ramsey

[wishful thinker]

Earth would be much better off without English folk dancing 

[ahinton]

Earth would be much better off without English folk dancing 

I'll drink to that (to our planet being much better of without this kind of thing, that is).

In the light of the fact that one aspect of English folk dancing is the annual tradition of dancing aroung the Maypole, I have a hunch that Pianistimo may have something to contribute here - but of course I may be wrong. We'll no doubt soon see, one way or the other...

Best,

Alistair

[rebby]

the earth was much better until cars and other mechanical devises were made in order to pullute the earth and make global warming which i might add is destroying the earth

[ahinton]

the earth was much better until cars and other mechanical devises were made in order to pullute the earth and make global warming which i might add is destroying the earth

I don't actually think that cars were made for that purpose, although it would indeed be very sensible if they were no longer made in such a way as to achieve that end in any case...

Best,

Alistair

[ihatepop]

Earth would be much better off without English folk dancing 

*smacks forehead and curses for sudden random change of topic.*

ihatepop

[mad_max2024]

Earth would be much better off without English folk dancing 

You can add Portuguese folk dancing to that as well...

[gyzzzmo]

We might whipe ourselves out, but never the world. Maybe the world as we know it, yes, but the world eventually will always regenerate, with or without us.

[rc]

Think what you wil, those people dancing look like they're having a pretty good time!

[lichristine]

Everyone should watch Ferngully: The Last Rainforest.