Tonic, subdominant, submediant, etc.

[beethoven2]

What is the point of things like the submediant, the subdominant, the tonic, the dominant, the mediant, and so forth?  When do you ever use them?  Why do they even matter?   

[Bob]

Those are names given to chords.  They describe the chord's function.

That way you can compare the chords in different keys -- They still work the same way.

[pianistimo]

this article explains it in easy terms by comparing I, IV, V with the primary colors Red, Yellow, Blue.  https://everythingtrumpet.com/Bill-Adam/articles/FntHarmony.html

(the site works now)

[counterpoint]

It's a (to some extent religious) system, which claims, that all chords can be rooted back to only three chords. This system was intensively promoted by German musicologist Hugo Riemann (1849 - 1919)

tonica - triad on the 1st note of the scale (step I of the scale)

subdominant - triad a fifth below the tonica (step 4 of the scale)

dominant -  triad a fifth above tonica (step 5 of the scale)


Because there are often chords on the other steps of the scale as well, they are linked to the main functions as "parallel" or "mediant" chords.

[pianistimo]

thanks for explaining that!

i always thought - after taking theory - that it was extremely helpful to see HOW composers composed.  if you don't learn about chord structure - you can be stuck forever trying to figure out one chord.  once you learn the system - it's easy.  you see that chords are made up of thirds (major and minor - and others like diminished and augmented) and that chords are figured quickly by counting every other letter of the musical alphabet starting with the lowest letter of of the chord.

sort of a musical sudoko or something.  you are arranging the tones in the order that will produce a chord (lowest third to highest).  once you analyze the chord and put it into the correct roman numeral  for the step that the tonic note of the chord is based on - then you can TRANSPOSE.

believe me, if i would have started as a child on this stuff - i would have been able to transpose a lot of music for my husband without writing it all down.  he sings baritone and nothing is in the right key for him with standard music.  you just write in all the roman numeral analysis - and boom - think of it in the next key you want.  play those chords - voila.

[invictious]

Really, I don't mind learning theory, it's just those damned names!

Why can't we just call it 1 2 3 4 5 6 7  in respect to the key signature? it would have saved me 1 minute of my live remembering it.

[prometheus]

You can. Many do. Depends on your education in music theory, if any.

[dark_chocolate]

I found a weird question in my music theory book...' If the tonic is E minor..then what chord is B major?Tonic,subdominant or dominant?'.. ...If the tonic is a minor chord is it possible that the dominant is a major chord?..and If the tonic is major chord is it possible that the dominant is a minor chord?thx a lot

[pianistimo]

in a natural minor key, you simply write out all the notes of the scale first and then use the particular notes to make thirds that are part of the scale.

so if E minor is the tonic, it would be related to the scale 1 1/2 half steps above - which is G.  G major has one sharp.  F#.  so only the F's will be sharped.

i - E G B - minor - because you have minor third on the bottom and major third on top.
ii dim - F# A C  - diminished - both thirds are minor (between F# and A, and A and C)
III - G B D - major
iv - A C E - minor - minor third on bottom - major third on top
v - B D F# - minor - same reason
VI - C E G - major
VII- D F# A - major

now - if you fudge with making the minor scale harmonic or melodic - then you are effectively changing some of the chords.  whatever notes are changed in the scale are changed in the chords.

[counterpoint]

I found a weird question in my music theory book...' If the tonic is E minor..then what chord is B major?

The dominant chord is always a major chord, even if the third of this triad isn't part of the scale.

So the much more interesting question is:

what function does the B Minor chord have in E Minor key?

Normally there doesn't exist a B Minor chord in E Minor key. So you can only get it as a mediant chord to G (the tonica parallel chord).

[preludium]

what function does the B Minor chord have in E Minor key?

Normally there doesn't exist a B Minor chord in E Minor key.

Ahm sorry, no b minor chord (B - D - F#) in the e minor key?

All these dissections in mediants and stuff are exaggerated, in my opinion. It only really works for the major keys, so it is conceptually flawed. At the end of the day there are only two aspects in harmony: tension and resolution. Everything else is just an elusive variation. As one can see, in a minor key you already get in trouble with the most basic things, since the dominant is a minor chord, which is a contradiction. It doesn't get any better if you look at modal keys.

[counterpoint]

As one can see, in a minor key you already get in trouble with the most basic things,

I totally agree with what you say.

[mad_max2024]

I think most of the chaos around the discussion here comes from having several minor scales
If you use the natural minor, the v is minor (in Em that is the Bm chord)
If you use the harmonic minor, there is a major V (in Em that is the Bmaj chord)

I could be wrong since I've never actually harmonized anything in minor scales (or major ones for that matter) but when analysing I usually think of the V from the harmonic scale as dominant, so I would say yes, the dominant is major when the tonic is minor.

PS: I knew I had read it somewhere...
https://www.8notes.com/school/theory/composing_with_minor_scales.asp
This may help a bit...

[mknueven]

yes -that's what caused the confusion.
Not assuming it was a harmonic scale.

[counterpoint]

yes -that's what caused the confusion.
Not assuming it was a harmonic scale.

If we talk about chords, we don't talk about scales.

The invention of different Minor scales is the most confusing thing in music theory.

I never saw a piece that was composed in (let's say) C Minor harmonic or in C Minor melodic. If the piece is in C Minor, it is in C Minor. There are no different Minors! (Except from the Greek modes, which are also used in Jazz music).

[term]

It's a (to some extent religious) system

true.
I'm agnostic, but in this case atheist. 

[mcgillcomposer]

Those are names given to chords.  They describe the chord's function.

That way you can compare the chords in different keys -- They still work the same way.

Even more fundamentally, they refer to scale degrees. There is a very logical explanation for this and you can find it in almost any harmony text. It is too tedious to reproduce here, but it is discussed in the following, and more:

Alan Forte's book on harmony
Charles Rosen's book on the classical style
Roger Sessions' book on harmony