Is it like riding a bike?

[andreperez]

Hi,
   I'm new to the forum here, since I just started playing piano again.  I played for some 12 years, when I stopped playing for 8 years (I stopped playing when I went to college).  I am not nearly as good as I used to be, but i can still read music.  Is it possible to get my fingers back to where they used to be, although I stopped for so long, or am I just too old now to get any good.  I'm 28 now, so it's old considering when I started =).  Anyway, does anyone have any book reccomendations, outside of formal lessons, on how to get my finger strength and flexibility back? I really want to get good, since I feel like i cut myself short when I was playing.  You really don't know how great it was to learn to play piano when you're young, until it's too late.  So no more regrets, where should I begin?  Theory?  I'm doing my old Hanon for the Virtuoso right now and trying to teach myself Beethoven's Pathetique. Or should I go and get some formal training?

Thanks for the help! 
Andre

[pianistimo]

i have none outside of formal lessons.  they're the fastest thing to get you 'back on track.'  you see, by now you would be already if you had the internal motivation.  but, hey - who has it when there isn't anybody to play for.  someone else who appreciates classical music as much.  when you go to school (even community college) there are students that you can play for in recital setting.  this, to me, is much more motivating than playing the waldstein for the wall behind the piano.

and, of course - you get some up-to-date advice.  just turn around and use it to your benefit to buy more lessons for yourself.  go and teach.  teaching will give you the money for buying yourself more lessons.  don't ask what you'll be eating.  sandwichs were my mainstay for many times that i just wanted to play more than eat.  you make a fast sandwich. put lots of lettuce in it (good for the brain) and dash out the door.  you'll be a better teacher because of taking lessons yourself, too.

[andreperez]

I would like to take formal lessons again, but I work until 7:30 - 8:00 pm.  I am currently practicing 2-3 hours between 8-11 pm.  I am just without a bit of direction at the moment.   I play my Hanon, I play the pieces I already know, and I work on the new piece i am working on. 

Not getting lessons isn't a monetary thing, it was more of a, "what did she do, other than make me play scales, pieces, and hold recitals" sort of thing.  I can do that now, but I don't know if I am practicing the best way, which is why I was looking for good learning material recommendations.   Otherwise, I may see if i can look up my old piano teacher, and give it a shot.   

As for teaching, I started teaching my girlfriend how to play, since she wanted to learn heart & soul =)  she is the reason I want to get better, since it is embarassing for me when I suck, considering I wasn't half bad back in the day.  In addition, while I went away for college, my sis stayed home, and had access to the family piano. So when I got back from college, I sucked, she rocked, and now the whole family makes fun of me ;-) 

Point is, i'm motivitated, but I can't remember what my particular piano teacher taught me in an hour, that I couldn't teach myself now.  Maybe i need to look up  a new one?  Or maybe she teaches older, more serious students completely differently.  Who knows, maybe i'll go and find out.     

Anyone from Jacksonville, FL, that knows a good teacher? 

[bearzinthehood]

Learning without a teacher is foolish.  It's like shooting pool in the dark.  Even if you manage to find the cue ball and hit it, it's still a colossal waste of time.

[andreperez]

lessons it is   Thanks for the input.

[rc]

It's possible to learn w/o a teacher, especially since you already have a foundation of playing for 12 years in your youth.  I sometimes wonder if the importance of the teacher might be a little overemphasised.

Still, teacher is ideal for the coaching effect, which is what you're looking for - direction.  You're definitely motivated, looks like you're using every spare minute of your day!  So It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to fit in an hour/week for the guidance of a teacher.  Or you might want to start with half an hour until you decide if you want to stick with a particular teacher or up it to an hour.

If you read around some old threads here, you'll see Hanon is a controversial subject, which basically boils down to two schools of thought regarding learning piano:

1) using exercises such as Hanon, Dohnanyi, scales.  con: they're unmusical, boring.  Many would say a waste of time - that all you learn is how to play unmusical boring exercises (not always for scales, most people agree with learning scales).  Pro: you learn the skills on throwaway exercises so you don't have to make your  mistakes on a beautiful piece of music and can more readily enjoy when you learn repertoire.

2) Learning technique through repertoire.  Pro: musically interesting, varied, you have something to show at the end of it all.

It's not so black & white, I'm sure most people use a both exercises & techniques...  I started from the perspective of learning entirely from repertoire.  I enjoyed it for a while, but because I didn't have a lot of opprotunity for performance I wound up learning a lot of pieces that I never got to play, and I found learning a piece only to forget it a waste of time.  So now I'm giving more focus on exercises, which works for me.  It's a personal thing, and it changes depending on the situation.

Personally I tend to use my weaknesses as guidance, since I have many I pick one of the worst to focus on for a while before moving onto the next weakness.  As much as I'd like to work on everything all at once (sightreading, scalework, improv, ear training, repertoire), that only dilutes my attention and burns me out.  Better to do one thing at a time.

So, when you go to look for a teacher keep in mind what you want to achieve.  It's a feedback loop, the better an idea you have of what you want to do, the better your teacher can guide you there.  Keep your teacher informed on what you want, if you have any problems or if you're curious to branch in other directions.

I'm sure you'll be surpassing your old standard in no time!

[pianistimo]

yes.  a new teacher - if the old one uses hanon.  you're way past that.  maybe someone you've heard play a recital.  find someone you think you'd like to take lessons for and ask when their next recital is.  if they play well, that's the key thing.  i don't care if they don't hold my hand anymores.  you want 'hard-core.'  that means - they'll tell you like it is without any bones about 'hurting your feelings.'  just pretend you haven't got any and go with everything that is suggested.  no pain no gain - is truly the motto for almost everything.  (no comfortable old teacher).

**i'm impressed with how much you are already practicing.  sounds like you are very motivated and just need a little guidance and direction as to where to proceed from here.

[andreperez]

Thanks again for all your responses.  I didn't know that teachers have recitals, I always thought they held the recitals   And the debate over the Hanon is interesting.  I do wonder if I would be better at Pathetique if I practiced it 2-3 hours a day, instead of splitting the time between it and Hanon, although I do feel that my hands are gettinng stronger and faster when I do the Hanon.  It gives me a feeling of progress, since the Hanon was written so that it is more easily learned which is something that is more difficult to attain withthe piece.

 I am also thinking of scaling back the difficulty of the piece I am working on, to get myself up to snuff, and to just make some progress.  I downloaded the latest ABRSM curriculum and am trying to figure out what grade I am.  The last piece I was playing before I quit (18 seems so long ago), was Rachmaninoff, Prelude in C-sharp minor.  I have no clue what grade piece that is, but I was thinking of trying something a grade below that.  Until I get a teacher, does anyone else thing that is a good idea?

[ramseytheii]

Thanks again for all your responses.  I didn't know that teachers have recitals, I always thought they held the recitals   And the debate over the Hanon is interesting.  I do wonder if I would be better at Pathetique if I practiced it 2-3 hours a day, instead of splitting the time between it and Hanon, although I do feel that my hands are gettinng stronger and faster when I do the Hanon.  It gives me a feeling of progress, since the Hanon was written so that it is more easily learned which is something that is more difficult to attain withthe piece.

 I am also thinking of scaling back the difficulty of the piece I am working on, to get myself up to snuff, and to just make some progress.  I downloaded the latest ABRSM curriculum and am trying to figure out what grade I am.  The last piece I was playing before I quit (18 seems so long ago), was Rachmaninoff, Prelude in C-sharp minor.  I have no clue what grade piece that is, but I was thinking of trying something a grade below that.  Until I get a teacher, does anyone else thing that is a good idea?

I think the advantage of Hanon in your case is that it can give you a feeling of accomplishment rather quickly, since the exercises are repetitions, and also it is getting movement back in your fingers.  I think you should think of Hanon as a temporary passage back into piano playing, but not something you will need forever.

I;m more intrigued by your title, which wasn't really addressed in the body of the messages.  You must mean, is playing the piano like riding the bike, in that you don't forget.  Not exactly.  Playing the piano requires such a fine degree of coordination and planning, that if you don't concentrate on it all the time, a lot truly will be lost.  Who was it that said, "I can tell if I haven't practiced one day; the critics can tell if I haven't practiced two; and my audience can tell if I haven'[t practiced three," or something to that effect.

That being said, if you can find the right teacher who shows you not just how to play but how to solve problems that arise in the music, if you bring genuine interest and intelligence you won't forget how to solve the problems.  Playing the piano is ultimately a rational acticvity, that is developed much more in the mind than in the muscles.  If you know how to solve problems, you can always get back into it.  If you find yourself fishing around and uncertain, without a concrete goal, you should look for a good teacher who gives logical advice, not a spiritual adviser.

Walter Ramsey