digital vs. acoustic pianos

[Derek]

why do many old school piano teachers hate digital pianos??

[gyzzzmo]

Because a decent accoustic piano IS much better than a decent digital one, especially when you perfectionise a piece. Digital is only good to controll the technical part of a piece.
Btw, im not an 'old school', i have a good digital piano myself. But i notice that when i havent played on an accoustic piano for some time, a piece sounds horrible when i play it on an accoustic piano.

Gyzzzmo

[danny elfboy]

why do many old school piano teachers hate digital pianos??

If you play on a digital piano for a long time when you go back to play on a grand or upright piano you will realize how it's "harder" to make it sound good
The digital piano is not affected by your "touch". If you depress the key it gives you a perfect in tune and harmonically rich sound.
That's not so with an acoustic piano
Try just to depress a key and listen carefully
The sound of a note or best yet a chord has a wave like quality a kind of "wow - wow - wow" echo. The skill a pianist must posses is allowing the best "tone production"
Just depressing the key is not enough. You must control the weight of the harm, the alignment at the moment of the impact and contration and the release.
In fact many people believe that unlike the guitar, the violin, the flute and so on the piano is "easiest to make it sound" because everyone can depress a key
But this is just half true. In fact just like blowing in a flute doesn't produce the best sound possible unless you controll the flow of air, the power of your blowing, the positiotion of the tongue and the teeth and so on; hitting a key doesn't produce the best sound possible without controlling weight of the arm, contraction, dynamic, power, gravity action.

That doesn't apply to a digital piano.
With the digital piano you really have an instrument where just depressing the key produce the most in tune and only tone it can produce (except for change in volume)

[Derek]

Interesting. I can see why that would be true in the following circumstances:

- a repeated note.  If a string is already vibrating, hitting it again may cause the waves to propagate at different points along the string, changing the tone subtly.

- the sustain pedal is down. extremely complex tapestries of overtones and reverberations through the other strings occur when this pedal is down. At best, the highest end digital pianos can only partly emulate this.

In the final analysis I think it is just a matter of taste, personal preference, and whether you get a special kick out of playing an acoustic instrument.  I don't think there's any objective reason why anyone ought to play one or the other. 

In fact, it seems to me that digital pianos make playing the piano accessible to people who cannot afford to buy an acoustic piano,  and to people who have limited space in their home.

From playing it myself and contrasting it with my acoustic grand, I can definitely say it is easier to make the digital sound good. I personally think that's a good thing---shouldn't musical creation be something that anyone can do?  A device which makes it even easier seems like a good thing.

I have no doubt however that my many lessons with Dr. Smith these past three years have instilled discipline in my playing which allows me to use the digital piano to its fullest.

I don't think it is a situation where:

say you've acquired a lot of experience/skill on an acoustic. play a digital for a while. do you LOSE your technique? no, you only get used to the digital.  you need only get used to the acoustic again. or better yet,  play on both frequently and you won't lose your ability to play well on either.

[bench warmer]

For about 3 months out of the year I play on my digital piano which is an 8-yr old Alesis Digital Grand. It has weighted keys and 64 note polyphony. It's an acceptable alternative to not having piano to play on and the sound is also  acceptable. In comparison to the newer digitals now, it's probably a relic.

When I return home to play on my Steinway Grand, there is a richness and fullness and caressing (almost) sound that emanates from it. It's difficult not to make it sound musical and the control is much easier.

The digital requires a much deeper key depression to produce a sound, so the technique in playing it is quite diffferent than playing the acoustic. But  find it easier to adapt to the acoustic than the digital. I don't find that it screws up my tecnique practising on a digital and then playing on the Grand.

I've sampled some newer digtals recently and am impressed with the advances they've made in "touch" and tone and even emulating harmonics of a note.

Anyway, don't be afraid to use a digital; it won't pre-dispose you mediocre playing on an acoustic.

[danny elfboy]

Interesting. I can see why that would be true in the following circumstances:

- a repeated note.  If a string is already vibrating, hitting it again may cause the waves to propagate at different points along the string, changing the tone subtly.

- the sustain pedal is down. extremely complex tapestries of overtones and reverberations through the other strings occur when this pedal is down. At best, the highest end digital pianos can only partly emulate this.

In the final analysis I think it is just a matter of taste, personal preference, and whether you get a special kick out of playing an acoustic instrument.  I don't think there's any objective reason why anyone ought to play one or the other.

That would be true if you studied in order to be a performer on digital pianos
You're right that there's nothing wrong in making tone production easier the point is that a teacher (the one you said is opposed to practicing on a digital piano) is following a standard path where the last objective is making a piano performer out of you
If you always study from you first day of lesson will you piano performance majoring on a digital piano you won't be able to play on an acoustic one
I don't know what level are you (or if you're a teacher) but with more advanced pieces let's say Gaspard de La Nuit the difference is even stronger.
 

In fact, it seems to me that digital pianos make playing the piano accessible to people who cannot afford to buy an acoustic piano,  and to people who have limited space in their home.

You can get your diploma by studying on a high quality upright
You can't get a piano diploma from just studying on a digital piano and then doing the exams on acoustic pianos.
That being said a grand piano is suggested but it's not indispensable

If you want an acoustic piano with a good action and weighed keys you're going to spend more than what you spend on a high quality acoustic
For example Yamaha provides reconditioned high quality piano (P3) [with their code and everything] for as little as 1400$
A good digital piano with piano-like action and weighed keys won't cost must less

As for the room, a digital weighed keys piano like the P120 once in its stand takes MORE room than a yamaha upright. If you want to just put it in the stand when you need it and keep it in its case when you don't need it, you need to buy the case which alone is like 180$ and takes anyway lot of room

[liszt-essence]

Yeah

And so if you want the quality of an acoustic piano, but want to pratice at night. Get a silent-system.

This is built into your acoustic piano, which can be switched on and off if whenever you wish.

So when it's off, you have a 100 % acoustic piano but when it's on, then:

The hammers are stopped just a fraction before they hit the snares. A laser reads their speed and an appropiate sampled sound will be played. You still have the actual hammer action, except that the hammers won't hit the snares.

Now some people will claim that weighed keyes feel the same as hammer action. I wholehartely disagree. I have tried some digital piano's in a shop, and one of 'em was as much as 5000 euro's. Which is about 11.000 dollars.

What a dissapointment it was. When I pressed the keys it didn't feel at all like I was making hammers move. The closest it came was the sensation of pressing a piece of plastic, that had a weight under it. That's it.

So if you are senstive to this kind of thing, DON'T go for a digital piano. My teacher adviced me not to take a digital. Although he said he knew some pianists, who were comfortable with them, and actually peformed on them. He said I would feel the difference and he was right. So just try it out for yourself.

[andersand]

Of course its easy to pregnant dog about a digital piano if you've got money enough to buy a nice yamaha grand accoustic. But if the budget is very low, a digital piano is a fantastic alternative. I bought my digital for 400$ (with hammeraction). Should i have bought an old out-of-tune accoustic (and what would that look like in a tiny apartment)?  It really depend on the situation one is in. There are also many advantages with a digital one: you can take it with you, you can record the sound with perfect quality (just a cable to the computer... you can't really to that with an accoustic :-)), you can play with headphones, you can use the build-in metronome to practise... and a lot of other things.

[infectedmushroom]

I only have a Digital Piano to play on here at home, but I'm fine with that. With Pianolessons I play on an Acoustic Piano and I notice that it's way easier to control the dynamics and let it sound more musical on an Acoustic Piano. I have to put a lot of effort in my playing to let my Digital Piano sound beautiful, but a decent/good Acoustic Piano already sounds beautiful, you only have to control the dynamics and get used to the touch probably.


Also, I think Digital Pianos are great to practise on. I played on serveral Grand Pianos and I noticed that, if I make a mistake, a Grand Piano is way more forgiveful than a Digital Piano...

[leslieb547]

Interesting comments Bench Warmer. I would be like to know which you consider to be the best new digital currently available. I have a Yamaha CLP 970, bought new 6 years ago when it was the top of range model and I've been very satisfied with it. It's not so different in touch, etc., to a good Bechstein Grand which I play regularly (fortnightly) in our local Concert Hall and a big Bluthner which I also play in recital 5 or 6 times a year. My Yamaha is at home for daily practice and, being digital, I can turn the volume right down for practicing Hanon, etc., to avoid upsetting the neighbours (I live in an apartment). However, I am considering trading it for the latest CLP 280, which has some improvements over the 970, and am wondering if anyone knows of a better digital. There are non locally available to try. Any advice would be appreciated.

[chillout]

Has anybody looked at the Roland Hp-107 and now the new 207?

[Derek]

I considered the HP-107. It's pretty awesome. It even has the escapement action simulation thingamajigger. It also has this "grand space" function which makes it sound like the piano is really 9" long...quite impressive aural illusion!.  For the amount you pay for it it is amazing. I ended up getting a Roland F-100 cause it is a lot smaller and I don't think I really need all the extra bells and whistles of the HP 107.

[bench warmer]

Interesting comments Bench Warmer. I would be like to know which you consider to be the best new digital currently available. I have a Yamaha CLP 970, bought new 6 years ago when it was the top of range model and I've been very satisfied with it. It's not so different in touch, etc., to a good Bechstein Grand which I play regularly (fortnightly) in our local Concert Hall and a big Bluthner which I also play in recital 5 or 6 times a year. My Yamaha is at home for daily practice and, being digital, I can turn the volume right down for practicing Hanon, etc., to avoid upsetting the neighbours (I live in an apartment). However, I am considering trading it for the latest CLP 280, which has some improvements over the 970, and am wondering if anyone knows of a better digital. There are non locally available to try. Any advice would be appreciated.

Since I'm not really in the market to purchase a new Digital yet, I wouldn't be the best authority to help anyone decide what the Best one out there is.  If I were going to replace my relic however I'd certainly try to sample in person before I'd purchase. You might want to line up a few places to travel to and do that even if it means blowing away a couple of weekends.

The last one I tried a few months ago was the GEM top-of-the-line grand. Price was $4500 or €3000(?).  It was quite amazing as far as realistic touch and sounds. You could even depress one key silently (like having the damper open from the "strings") & play another note an octave or more away, and the "silent" key would resonate!  You could truly hear harmonics & modulations when you played. I ran through some of Chopin's OP.53 Polonaise on it and was impressed.

Mind boggling decisions to make, good luck.

[danny_sequel]

Of course its easy to pregnant dog about a digital piano if you've got money enough to buy a nice yamaha grand accoustic.

Why?
Remember that we were comparing acoustic upright vs. digital piano
Of all the teachers I know and had only one got the diploma by playing on a grand
The others didn't have the room or money to buy a grand and opt for an high quality upright. In other words: the grand is a luxury not compulsory

If you compare how much you have to spend to have a digital with good hammered action and how much you have to spend to have an high quality reconditioned piano you can prepare your diploma on ... then the cheapest choice is the acoustic

But if the budget is very low, a digital piano is a fantastic alternative. I bought my digital for 400$ (with hammeraction). Should i have bought an old out-of-tune accoustic (and what would that look like in a tiny apartment)?

No offence meant but I doubt you can compared a 400$ digital piano to even a medium to low qualite used acoustic piano. The series digital series P of the yamaha is considered to have a good hammered action but still FAR from that of an acoustic
And cheapst in the P series costs 1200$
I can't see how a digital piano that costs 400$ can be good enough to allow serious technical studies. Also the dimension of a small upright (P101) versus a digital hammered piano in its stand (P120) is not much more

An hammered good quality digital piano in its stand takes with its width takes a room of 53 cm x 135
An upright good quality acoustic piano takes a room of 55 x 132
 

It really depend on the situation one is in. There are also many advantages with a digital one: you can take it with you

Well .. theorically; but try to bring with you the P121 in its case
Two problems: the weight and the uncomfortable room it takes (especially in a car where it's either the piano or the passengers)

you can record the sound with perfect quality (just a cable to the computer... you can't really to that with an accoustic :-)), you can play with headphones

You can do that with a silent-system (40$)
It not only allows you (by capturing the vibrations of the string in a particular phonoabsorbent fabric) to plug your headphones to plus a cable to connect the hi-fi or the computer

you can use the build-in metronome to practise... and a lot of other things.

I'm not against digital pianos ...  not at all
They have their use

If you're going to perform your diploma exam on a acoustic piano ... buy an acoustic
If you're going to become a performer in recitals and concertos ... buy an acoustic

If you want to learn the musicality of digital music and compose digital music ... buy an acoustic
If you're going to perform playing on a digital or accompanying a group ... buy a digital
If you want to deal with sound creation and new synthesized sounds ... buy a digital

[andersand]

Danny... where did that pregnant dog come in? I didn't write that? 

You have some good arguments, but it sounds like you are taking a serious players point of view who plays hours and hours each day. If you are just playing a little and only for fun i think a digital is a much better alternative. But of course if you can afford an accoustic one (and if you have the space - it IS a big fat block) that might be a better alternative. I've tried some cheap accoustics and i didn't like to play them AT ALL.

[bench warmer]

I considered the HP-107. It's pretty awesome. It even has the escapement action simulation thingamajigger. It also has this "grand space" function which makes it sound like the piano is really 9" long...quite impressive aural illusion!.  For the amount you pay for it it is amazing. I ended up getting a Roland F-100 cause it is a lot smaller and I don't think I really need all the extra bells and whistles of the HP 107.

Besides, who wants to play on a piano that sounds like it's only 9 inches long! Not much bass I suspect.

[dabbler]

I have to practice on a digital quite often, as I have an annoying neighbor. In general it's ok (although I much prefer the sound and feel of a real one), but what I dislike most is that the sustain pedal is just 0/1, unlike in a real piano. Is it different with your digitals?

[danny elfboy]

Danny... where did that pregnant dog come in? I didn't write that? 

Lol  ... it says so in your post. I was confused indeed ... I thought it was some kind of regional slang :p

You have some good arguments, but it sounds like you are taking a serious players point of view who plays hours and hours each day. If you are just playing a little and only for fun i think a digital is a much better alternative.

Yes ... as I said it all depends what you want to use the piano for
If you want to play a grand on recitals you need to practice on an acoustic, if you need to become a keybordist in a band you need to practice in a digital

But of course if you can afford an accoustic one (and if you have the space - it IS a big fat block) that might be a better alternative. I've tried some cheap accoustics and i didn't like to play them AT ALL.

but depending on what your goals are the digital may be a better alternative
What I say is buy an accoustic only if you need it for something involving mainly playing on an acoustic ... because otherwise practicing on a digital may be a problem ...
Likewise if you know you're going to become a keyboardist and play always on a digital practicing on an acoustic may be a problem ... you better practiceon a digital and get the  hang of it (musical, touch and dynamical wise)

[Derek]

I have to practice on a digital quite often, as I have an annoying neighbor. In general it's ok (although I much prefer the sound and feel of a real one), but what I dislike most is that the sustain pedal is just 0/1, unlike in a real piano. Is it different with your digitals?

   

I'm pretty sure the HP-107 simulates the varying degrees of having the damper pedals on the strings.

I think there is absolutely no argument that for pure sound quality awesomeness and feel, an acoustic piano just slays digitals.  But...I think digitals are a fine alternative anyway. Maybe not for virtuosos...but for most people they're fine.

[timothy42b]

For $1200 USD you can get a decent digital in several brands. 

Or you can get a used upright where the only maintenance has been furniture polish. 

While I agree a well maintained acoustic is more fun to play, I find an out of tune one miserable and prefer digital. 

Our church has one digital, one grand, and four uprights.  None of the acoustics meet my standards for tuning or regulation.  While of course they all "should be" maintained, the reality is most pianos are not. 

[danny elfboy]

For $1200 USD you can get a decent digital in several brands. 

Or you can get a used upright where the only maintenance has been furniture polish. 

Or you can get a reconditioned piano where each too used/ruined or broken part is substituted or fixed

[mwf]

What a load of crap people are putting on this post,

I am capable of playing any acoustic piano or digital, so are most normal people, both have their pros and cons. Digitals are great for beginners, intermediate and yes even experts. One person said that you cannot get a diploma by practicing on a digital, so why then am I playing diploma standard repetoire on my Roland digital piano? You can play anything you want on a digital.

My next piano is a CLP280, try and find a better upright for that money brand new... I bet no one can, just listen to how good this clavinova CLP280 is and how it responds to ones touch, it has natural wood keys and is sampled from a top-quality grand, so the basic tone of the instrument is richer than most uprights you will encounter, no grands I will admit.

Most top pianists cannot outplay a top-end digital piano such as the CLP280, so they are fine for practicing any advanced classical music, yes even Gaspard or Islamey, or whatever you want to through at it.

Once you press a key on a piano thats it, you cannot alter the pianos tone one bit, everything technical can be acheived on a digital, and so can alot of musicality, the people who say one cannot be musical on a digital is either a purist elitist fool, or just thick and ignorant of digital technology today, not yesterday but today. The CLP280 has string resonance sampling to add colour and effects to your performance, it has key-off sampling, stereo sustain sampling, half-pedal recognition, and responds extremely well to ones playing through touch, it even has 4 dynamic steps for every key which responds to your touch with changing timbre and tonal enhancement. It outplayed a U3 in the same showroom I played in anyway.

MWF

[menuet]

What a load of crap people are putting on this post,

Well..... let's just say you disagree.

I am capable of playing any acoustic piano or digital, so are most normal people, both have their pros and cons.

I too. BUT, this is because I now play on an accoustic piano.

I've start playing for 4 years (or so) on digital piano, and not bad ones (CLP 170 Grand Hammer 3). I definitely can tell you that I was able to perform lots of things on this digital piano, BUT I was definitely NOT able to do any correct performance on an accoustic piano.

Digital makes good keyboardists, acoustic makes pianists.

Digitals are great for beginners, intermediate and yes even experts.

I just completely disagree.

Digital are usefull to :
* Give a cheap try to see if you really wants to learn piano
* Perform at night when you cannot use you acoustic.
* Memory / Reading

The more you play acoustic, the more you can afford practicing on digital without doing anything wrong.

One person said that you cannot get a diploma by practicing on a digital, so why then am I playing diploma standard repetoire on my Roland digital piano?

You can play anything you want on a digital.

Ok, but do you really have thoose diplomas ? do you get the same level of "perfection" when you play acoustic ? Playing a Chopin's nocturne on an harpsichord don't mean you will do on a piano..... let's just say it's the same for digital piano.

My next piano is a CLP280, try and find a better upright for that money brand new

A bike is cheaper than a car, still, it's not a car.

... I bet no one can, just listen to how good this clavinova CLP280 is and how it responds to ones touch, it has natural wood keys and is sampled from a top-quality grand, so the basic tone of the instrument is richer than most uprights you will encounter, no grands I will admit.

I've never tryed the CLP280..... so I won't say anything. I'll give it a try next time I'll go the the piano store.

Still, I'm very doubtfull.

Once you press a key on a piano thats it, you cannot alter the pianos tone one bit

That's right, but don't make me believe that in 16Meg of memory they managed to get all the dynamics of every combination with or without the pedal of every single note on the piano.

This is just not possible. It's "ok", it's kind of good, but it is not a piano.

I used to play on digital, I used to be wrong, I know have an acoustic.

[menuet]

why do many old school piano teachers hate digital pianos??

oh..... I almost forgot to answer the first question :-)

So, they want you to learn on an acoustic piano just because you ask them to learn the piano.

There are a lot of differences between acoustic and digitals, just trust them even if you cannot know it by yourself right now.

I did use a digital at first, and I did believe it was just the same. I now know it is not.

Now, you may just want to be a keyboardist playing (very well) piano repertoire on digital piano. If so, that's really ok. But know that you won't be a pianist if you don't learn the piano on a real piano.

(ps: appologies, my english is not good enough for me to be able to explain the differences I've found between acoustics / digitals)

[mwf]

Digital pianos are fine for alternative practice, everything you learn on a digital is completely transferrable onto an acoustic, I am sorry MENUET but have you ever thought for a second that the problem is your playing, most people I have spoke to on these piano forums, and I have spoke to a lot btw, have very little problem adapting from one type of piano to another. I have no trouble playing Chopin etudes for example on my Roland digital piano, I agree digital pianos dont have all the interactive harmonics that make the acoustic piano so special, but I would rather have a pleasing piano tone than an old out of tune upright which has no appealing overall tone or sound.

Todays top-end digital pianos specialised for the pianist without all the bells and whistles are very good and compete easily with the common acoustic upright piano. Menuet you need to get with it, this is the 21st century, technology has come a long way, the sampling on todays digitals are very good using more than your 16 meg comment you made. Pro's do use digitals, I know you cant quite grasp that but its the case no matter what your anti-digital views are.

Where have you got this idea of digital pianos being a cheap try, the next piano I am getting is well over 2000 pounds, no cheap try my friend, plus it will outplay other similar uprights by a long shot.

You can be a pianist practicing on a digital piano and then playing acoustic pianos, because the technical and musical abilities you have are transferrable between the two.

Perhaps its you who cant call themselves a pianist because you obvioulsy cant adapt between the two instruments, THIS DOES NOT MEAN OTHERS CANT ADAPT AND LEARN FROM EITHER. One can easily, well most, learn the piano on a digital and then transfer whats learnt onto an acoustic, most uprights are compromises anyway, whats important for concerts etc.. is being able to play grand pianos, thats why pro's often have a grand and digital next door for an acceptable alternative. You can do your final touch-ups on the grand for a performance if you feel you need to. There is no huge gap between very good digtal pianos and upright pianos, they are both suitable for learning the piano.

Dont put people off digitals because they are not real pianos, they are instruments and often the top-end products far better to learn the piano on than an old used out of tune upright, its the modern day and because you can play silently but still with all the dynamics intact you can practice for longer without disturbing anyone.

Every piano is different from the next anyway, so practicing on a particular upright as apposed to a digital wont matter in the slightest, you could be up against a concert grand and all the upright practice in the world wont make you more equiped to perform best on it, as apposed to learning on a digital. Alot of people who I have spoke to who own grand pianos as well as good digital pianos would rather have the digital as an alternative than an upright to practice on.

Oh and if you get into all this tonal colouring and tone manipulation etc. with me dont bother, because that is very arguable if it exists in the first place. I believe you can colour the sound in your head, but its totally down to the piano mechanics hitting the strings that determine the sound output not you personally. Most decent digitals have these harmonics that give colour etc.. to the overall sound, and every piano will have different harmonics and colours to the next, it does not mean you can control them.

MENUET do you have any actual evidence that someone cannot be a pianist by playing digital pianos? I can play acoustic pianos extremely well and am only able to by practicing soley on digital pianos all my life, its worked for me my friend.

[Derek]

I think it just all boils down to preference. Everything I've learned from Dr. Smith over the last several years, I have found is very easy to transfer to my digital piano, and then back to my acoustic, just as mwf is saying.  I think somehow traditional piano pedagogues are somehow just snobby about acoustic pianos or something.   

Let's face it. If you have a keyboard which is weighted and produces a reasonable range of dynamics, you can do all the coloring and voice balancing you would do on an acoustic piano...I don't think it is any more complex than that.  Experience, for me, proves this.

[menuet]

Digital pianos are fine for alternative practice,

I agree, they are fine for alternative practice.

I am sorry MENUET but have you ever thought for a second that the problem is your playing

It was, because I played on a digital. I now understand what is the correct "touch" and I don't have a single problem switching piano.

I agree digital pianos dont have all the interactive harmonics that make the acoustic piano so special,

And thoose interactive harmonics belongs to the skill of playing the piano, that's all I'm saying.

Menuet you need to get with it, this is the 21st century, technology has come a long way, the sampling on todays digitals are very good using more than your 16 meg comment you made.

I'm a computer engineer, I do am in the 21st century. I've red the documentation of the CLP 280 and did look on how proud they are on the "36" MB of memory for the sound they have. I was wrong then, it's not 16MB (16mb is the P140), it's 36. It still does not fit. I exactly know what I'm talking about regarding technology and computer programming.

Pro's do use digitals, I know you cant quite grasp that but its the case no matter what your anti-digital views are.

I am using digital. I am not anti digital, they do have their use. BUT you don't learn piano on a digital. Learing piano on a digital won't make you a good pianist. I've been through this experience. Maybe they are people who can learn piano on any keyboard, but for 80% of the population, this is not the case.

Where have you got this idea of digital pianos being a cheap try, the next piano I am getting is well over 2000 pounds, no cheap try my friend, plus it will outplay other similar uprights by a long shot.

Please, at least agree that digital are often cheaper than actual piano.... I'm not talking about gadgety stuffed digitals, I'm talking about "digital piano only".
If we take the CLP280 as an example, it's a 3000 euros bill for a good digital. For 3000 euros, you have a medium quality studying piano.

You can be a pianist practicing on a digital piano and then playing acoustic pianos, because the technical and musical abilities you have are transferrable between the two.

Yes I am. There is stuff I can work on digital, there are stuff I can't.

Perhaps its you who cant call themselves a pianist because you obvioulsy cant adapt between the two instruments, THIS DOES NOT MEAN OTHERS CANT ADAPT AND LEARN FROM EITHER.

I'm calling myself a pianist because i've found the differences between digitals and acoustic, because I know that there are subttle stuff that do not work on a digital.

Dont put people off digitals because they are not real pianos,

I'm putting people who wants to play the piano of digital piano.
I advice people to buy a digital piano to be able to practice "more" (considering they already have an acoustic piano).

its the modern day and because you can play silently but still with all the dynamics intact you can practice for longer without disturbing anyone.

Yes, and that is what digital are good for.

MENUET do you have any actual evidence that someone cannot be a pianist by playing digital pianos?

The only evidence is my experience. I've started learning on a digital and was doing pretty good on it. One day I try an acoustic piano..... i'm just not good on it. I try another acoustic.... still not good.
Now I'm learnin on an acoustic, I CAN play on any acoustic piano, and, I can still play digitals because they are "easy" to play on. Maybe this is because they have reached perfection or something, but still, as a pianist, you have to be able to perform on an acoustic piano and to be used to thoose "not perfect not a computer things".

The day I've met my teacher, I've start playing a score. Two minutes later he says "ooh...... you must be playing a digital right ?"

I know 2 other people that play the piano. One did start on a digital and now agree with  me (at first he did not, but one day he got the "clic" that made him change his mind and his way of playing).
I know one other pianist that always played on a digital, she just can't do any good on my (upright) piano. Beleive me, this is very frustrating for her.

I can play acoustic pianos extremely well and am only able to by practicing soley on digital pianos all my life, its worked for me my friend.

Good for you, you're a lucky man or a genius (some people practice on a table with keys drawed on). If you're not lucky, you missed a point in the piano performance (please don't take this as an offence, my english is not fluent and I don't wan't to be rude).

Still, for the common like me, some of us have to practice on acoustic to become pianists.

[molto-marcato]

On a digital you can only practice just to hit the right key at the right time. You learn absolutely nothing about tone control/developement, nothing about technique to produce a certain sound. Never practice on a digital exclusively. If you want to practice at 12pm and not getting trouble with your neighbours it sure makes sense to have a digital, but never make this your only piano.

[timothy42b]

How good do you think the acoustic pianos were in Bach's day?  Beethoven?  Chopin?  Liszt? 

I think it is very much possible that the worst weighted digital is better than the best that was available to most pianists a few hundred years ago.  I guarantee you it is better than the average quality available. 

Yet they managed to make some pretty good music. 

Maybe they were channeling UFOs.

 

[molto-marcato]

Even on the worst acoustic piano you can produce a tone, while even with the best digital you can only play a sample.

[mwf]

The piano is a percussion instrument and there is no tone control or development I am sorry to inform you... Any piano whether it be a grand upright or digital is all about hitting the right keys at the right time, not just on a digital.

Technique to produce a certain sound? what the hell is that? there is only one way to make sound through the amount of pressure you place on the keys, thats it, there is no magic in the piano.

YOU CANNOT MANIPULATE THE SOUND OF ANY PIANO, YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE THE TIMBRE/TONE THROUGH DYNAMICS, OK. AND GUESS WHAT YOU STUPID ANTI-DIGITAL EXPERTS, A DIGITAL PIANO HAS THESE CAPABILITIES JUST THE SAME AS AN ACOUSTIC, ANY INTERACTIVE HARMONICS AND COLOURING WILL BE DIFFERENT FROM ANY ONE PIANO TO THE NEXT, SO YOU CANNOT GAIN A MAGICAL TONE CHANGING TOUCH.

MWF




MWF

[danny elfboy]

One person said that you cannot get a diploma by practicing on a digital, so why then am I playing diploma standard repetoire on my Roland digital piano? You can play anything you want on a digital.

I said you cannot get a diploma by practicing on digital ALONE
What I mean is getting a diplaima without ever having played on an acoustic just on a digital. The kind of skill the diploma examinators require including a perfect mastery of the resistance of the keyboard and of the touch. Not even someone who wants to seel you a digital piano at all costs will ever tell you that any weighted keys digital piano has reached the same kind of dyamics that whatever acoustic has. It's not a problem of sound but of structure. Not even clavinova have reached that level and there's doubt even at the Yamaha (reach their newsletter and boards) whether that will be even possible. Digital weighed keys pianos have no reached the kind of resistance, actrites, dynamic of acoustics can allows due to their mechanical components, it's an heresy no one believe in ... let alone the technicians at yamaha

My next piano is a CLP280, try and find a better upright for that money brand new... I bet no one can, just listen to how good this clavinova CLP280 is and how it responds to ones touch, it has natural wood keys and is sampled from a top-quality grand, so the basic tone of the instrument is richer than most uprights you will encounter, no grands I will admit.

Most top pianists cannot outplay a top-end digital piano such as the CLP280, so they are fine for practicing any advanced classical music, yes even Gaspard or Islamey, or whatever you want to through at it.

It outplayed a U3 in the same showroom I played in anyway.

You're considering piano playing in a very superficial manner
It's not about what sounds better in that moment in a room, but the long term technical application of your anatomical structure to either a mechanical instrument that has been evolving keeping in mind the anatomy of people or one that doesn't
The weighed keys of TODAY has not yet solved this immense problem

To make a concrete example: it's like playing an organ after having played the piano
Try it and see for yourself. Yet both instruments have a keyboard and except the pedal and the upper keyboard the "hand technique" is exactly the same
For example try a Bach Invention on an organ after you've played it on a keyboard
The weighed keys although being better than nothing are still nowhere near being similar to the weight and resistance of the keys of an acoustic

[danny elfboy]

Let's face it. If you have a keyboard which is weighted ....

Ask both an acoustic piano technician and a digital piano technician
They will both agree that it's a long road still before the weighed component of a digital piano can even be similar to that of an acoustic.
And last time I checked (whiteside, fink, lister-sink, mark ...) the resistance, actricte and weight of the keys is one of the most singular most important factor in piano technique

[menuet]

YOU CANNOT MANIPULATE THE SOUND OF ANY PIANO, YOU CAN ONLY CHANGE THE TIMBRE/TONE THROUGH DYNAMICS, OK.

Yes, and thoose dynamics are NOT the same in digitals, there is no digital right now (at my knowledge) that can mimic the feeling of a real acoustic piano.

AND GUESS WHAT YOU STUPID ANTI-DIGITAL EXPERTS,

Calling us stupid won't help having a nice talk.

A DIGITAL PIANO HAS THESE CAPABILITIES JUST THE SAME AS AN ACOUSTIC,

Digital have theese capabilities, they just don't need the same technique. Period.

You can write with a pencil, and you can write with a brush. Still, the two don't need the same technique. You can do more stuff with a brush, and if you always use a pencil, you will never know, that's all I want to say.....

Anyway, I'm stoping here 'cause this is going nowhere.

[leslieb547]

For MWF,

Hi, I see you are in UK and have a Roland and a CLP280? I am also UK, have a CLP970 from new 5 years ago. I was about to upgrade to a CLP280 when people started telling me that the Roland HP107, or an even newer model, 108?, is noticably better. More realistic grand piano sound, etc., for a similar price. Do you have an opinion on this as I have to travel 100 miles to hear the 2 instruments side by side, my local (50 miles) dealer will only sell me one unseen! Thanks in advance.

[mwf]

Hi leslieb547,

I have tried both Rolands and Yamahas best attempts at their top DP's, I was in a showroom and played on a used upright and thought it was nice, but then the dealer said why dont you have a go on this piano, the one he pointed to was a digital piano. So reluctantly I sat down knowing full well it would not compete with the real upright I had just played. A few minutes into playing I could not believe my ears and how good and responsive this digital piano was. It was infact a CLP270 in the Yamaha range, there is only one above and thats the CLP280, the only difference is the natural wood white keys the 280 has, as apposed to the still very good GH3 on the 270. I have notplayed the 280, because it was over 3000 pounds, and I could not afford it, and I w s more than impressed with the GH3 anyway.

The CLP270 was a sheer joy to play, responding amazingly well to my touch, and the sampled sounds with string resonance emitting from this DP created an astonishingly rich and vibrant overall sound. It sounded far richer than the upright I had just played, and I felt it possible to play better the pieces I wanted to.

After dragging myself away from the CLP270, I went upstairs to try the Roland HP107, that the dealer did not mention to me, but I had only heard about on the internet.  It was good, but both touch and sound was not in the same league as the CLP270, the Roland was just boring and outdone by the CLP270, and I only played the thing for a few minutes, then shot back downstairs to continue on the CLP270.

So I would strongly reccommend the Yamaha DP's over any other company, they are ahead as usual of the current competition. I would suggest however that you try the different pianos to see what suits you best though, I know it can be difficult, but spending so much money has to be a wise and thorough decision.

The CLP280 is probably my next choice because of the amount of good comments made on the natural wood keyboard, that is only available on the 280-the top model as you know. The specs are otherwise exactly the same on the CLP270/280. I would rather pay that little extra for the white-wood keys the CLP280 has, and as far as sound and response goes the CLP270/280 would outplay most similar priced uprights and easily any other digital similar priced DP.

Bottom line is go for Yamaha as far as digital pianos are concerned IMO, and I feel my opinion counts for something because I have years of experience playing both digital and acoustic pianos.

MWF

To finish, the pro-acoustic lobby are at it again, they just dont get it do they... most of the pianism comes from the player within not the instrument at hand, its perfectly acceptable to practice on digital pianos period for any diploma as long as one does touch-ups on an acoustic grand before the exams or whatever.

To end just remember every piano is different to the next, so you may well get used to ones touch and find the next not to your liking, or a poor action, most uprights are compromises like DP's are, but the top-end DP's now are better for practicing on than uprights IMO, because you get an even response on a digital no matter what, they require no tuning and you can turn down the volume etc.. I am not saying DP's should take over acoustics but for practice purposes they surely are more practical instruments to learn on overall than the common upright which has numerous maintenance costs over the years.

A DP provides a very reasonable alternative to piano practice and performance, I hate these people who are posting senseless and hugely insignificant replies to the original post, I personally think that acoustics win over digital pianos... but for practice towards the real deal such as a grand piano, a top-end digital wins over an upright and should not hinder anyone, although a few seem to be incapable of bringing out a decent performance on a DP, I strongly feel thats down to their playing abilities both technically and musically. A good pianist can play any type of piano and make it sound good, but its because of them not the instrument. Rachmaninoff used to practice on a silent piano to prepare for his concerts, and thats surely not going to be capable of all the nuances etc.. of an acoustic.

MWF

[danny elfboy]

The biggest problem on practicing on a digital instead of an acoustic is the lack of feeling a "whole with the piano" as many have put it, because of the lack of the wood structure, the hammers, the resistance

You are ignoring one of the most important aspect of piano technique (read Seymour Fink book) if you say that all you need to produce a sound is depressing a key
In fact just depressing a key is just like blowing on a clarinet ... the sound is not good, it's just the basic level of sound production but doesn't take into account the "tone production"
The relation between the gravity force and the resistance of the hammer is what, when mastered, allows a beautiful sound at the piano. If you can't understand this not only you're not going to get a diploma but do need seriously to start practicing on an acoustic

The being said I'm not anti-digital
In fact I'm so not anti-digital that I not only love playing digitals and digital piano but I also love digital sounds, sequencers, keyboards, electronic music
So I'm totally unbiased in this one because I like Scarlatti as much as I like Vangelis

I've consulted with the best piano technician to choose my instruments both acoustic and digital and I suggest to do the same because whatever technician will tell you that the upright is what is very close to the grand piano not the digital

You seem to reason under the delusion that the grand is the only true piano and that both the digital and the upright acoustic are just "preliminary steps" or "compromise" in relation to the grand and the winner is the digital
You're wrong

The acoustic is not only the closest to the grand but it's also a true piano in itself
In fact there are tons of world best performers who have never switched to a grand during their studies because they had no money or room and just did their diploma an a good quality acoustic (Petrof, Yamaha, Steinway) including many of my teachers that can play Gaspard de la Nuit at unbelievable speed but have never practiced or played it on a grand.

On the other hand I know of no diploma pianist and or world famous performer who has just practiced on a digital piano without never swtiching to an acoustic upright
In fact I'd even like to know someone who did the diploma exams after having practiced on a digital his/her whole life and never on an upright acoustic

[mwf]

You are ignoring one of the most important aspect of piano technique (read Seymour Fink book) if you say that all you need to produce a sound is depressing a key
In fact just depressing a key is just like blowing on a clarinet ... the sound is not good, it's just the basic level of sound production but doesn't take into account the "tone production"
The relation between the gravity force and the resistance of the hammer is what, when mastered, allows a beautiful sound at the piano. If you can't understand this not only you're not going to get a diploma but do need seriously to start practicing on an acoustic

I've consulted with the best piano technician to choose my instruments both acoustic and digital and I suggest to do the same because whatever technician will tell you that the upright is what is very close to the grand piano not the digital

You seem to reason under the delusion that the grand is the only true piano and that both the digital and the upright acoustic are just "preliminary steps" or "compromise" in relation to the grand and the winner is the digital
You're wrong

Hmmm... Actually it sounds as though you are ignoring one, if not the, most important aspect of playing the piano- PLAYING THE PIANO, this believe it not requires one to press keys at the right time in the way you feel you would like to, it involves how long you depress the key for, how hard you press the key etc.. All this tone production is only a myth and you dont realise it does not make one bit of difference and is certainly not one of the fundamentals of piano technique. If you bothered to study up on techniques of different instruments you will find that tone production is far more of importance to violin playing for example not piano playing, because you have to search for a tone or sound, the piano you just depress the key and hey presto a lovely sound is produced, you cant honestly tell me you have to search for a tone on a Steinway D that sounds beautiful, it will sound beautiful no matter how you press the key, because its already prepared and tuned etc.. by people, there is no way one can produce tonal changes on the acoustic piano or obviously the digital, once you have pressed a key the hammer flies off towards the strings, after which its all in your head if you believe you are making these beautiful tones from the piano.

Send in a recording, or post a recording or whatever to show everyone here on this forum that one can change the tone on a piano of his/her choosing, show us that you have somehow mastered this fundamental technique, send in something that shows good tone production and that you have not just pressed keys on a piano, because in your books the sound is not good if one just presses the key on a piano-I am sorry but you are so pedantic it makes me sick.

So you are telling me one should practice on an upright instead of a digital at all costs, even if one spends over 3000 pounds on a decent top of the range digital piano, it will not compete with a 500 pound used upright because on the upright you have the option of tone production that the digital does not possess! come on man.

I would say your ignorance towards todays current digital pianos is evident danny elfboy, a top-end digital piano would be far more like a grand piano than a similar priced upright, this is because:

1.They are sampled from grand pianos, thus the basic tone overall is richer than most similar priced uprights.
2.The keyboard on the DP is more similar to a grand piano than an upright, for example escapement is featured on top DP's. Also the eveness and overall stability will be better than on the common upright, and practicing will be made easier and one will develop good even playing techniques.
3.DP's usually have 3 pedals, one for sosentuo, which uprights do not have which grand pianos obviously do.

I have played many different types of piano, and I agree that acoustic pianos have unbeatable interactive harmonics that cannot be replicated fully, however the latest DP's have very accurately sampled these harmonics and string resonances to a large extent, and the overall sound and response you get very well replicates that of an acoustic instrument, and IMO beats similar or lower priced uprights.

To finish I think it takes more of a genius to be able to create beautiful tone than soley practicing on DP's towards aquiring a dimploma or whatever. At least there is evidence of one, whether you believe it or not.

[bench warmer]

I've suggested, on this and other forums, for advocates of the "being able to control How a tone changes in quality by how you depress the key" to try a "blind " experiment like you sugessted....... And then reverse the experiment: Have someone else hit the key in various methods of attack and have the advocate pick out the difference. No one does this...but the arguments continue.

What made Rubinstein or Horowitz or Cziffra and all the other greats sound like they do is the way they made the notes integrate in a piece of music. Timing, volume and duration (and of course, accuracy) is about all one has to work with when playing a piano.

[danny elfboy]

You're not understanding me
If we take an isolated sound clearly the merely depressing of a key produces a sound
When one talks about producing tone it is in the context of playing, the context of melody
Piano playing is a perpetual combination of gravity action, contraction and release
The merely use of gravity depends on the resistance and actrite of the hammers which is something totally lacking in a digital piano
The contraction and release too depends on the same resistance and actrite
A digital piano would equal an acoustic upright in this if the "weighed keys" would be ever comparable to that of an acoustic. But, and I don't only trust my sense but have asked this to digital pianos technician, the worse aspect of digital piano that is still miles away from equaling an acoustic is the weight of key. In other words even pianos that costs 5.000$ have still primordial systems of weigheing keys. In facy any good pianist with a good sense of touch knows that weighed keys in digital piano are pure sh*t
And even in the top-quality digital pianos the weighing key system is still the same old one which according to the even the builders of digital piano is absolutely not equaling that of acoustic piano

2.The keyboard on the DP is more similar to a grand piano than an upright, for example escapement is featured on top DP's. Also the eveness and overall stability will be better than on the common upright, and practicing will be made easier and one will develop good even playing techniques.

I still don't understand it. Lacking any sort of real resistance and actrite from the hammers a digital piano keyboard and its action is more similar to that of an acoustic piano than that of a grand. In fact ... and let me repeat this ... no pianist known has even practiced his diploma on a digital or got a Ph.D practicing on a digital; but the majaority of pianists have done on upright because grand (except for a certain class of people) have always been a luxury for few .. for those who have enough money but especially enough room. The difference between an acoustic and grand (in practicing and playing serious pieces) is not that big since you don't need to switch to a grand to practice and be able to perform virtuoso pieces or the pieces for a diploma exam
That's not the case with a digital
An upright but its very nature is way more similar to a grand piano than a digital piano is to a grand piano. Any digital piano technician would love at someone insisting otherwise

Your second point about eveness and stability doesn't make any sense, if nothing because not argumented.

It seems like you want to justify your choice of spending your money on a digital and avoiding buying an acoustic. That you're not even sure about your choice is demonstrated by your arrongant and almost psychotic reaction and rants. If you were that sure you would not react that why, but you get so angry at the very idea that maybe you need an acoustic because you know deep inside that if it were true, and it could be true, it would mean you've a problem ... economical; so you know want everyone to say that a digital is better than an acoustic so you can leave in peace with your own choice.

It isn't going to happen. Stop bothering people that don't agree with you and are entitled to their opinions and just accept that maybe you don't have adopted the perfect solution and if the awareness of this upsets you just do some conscience examination rather than vomiting your agst and mental instability

[leslieb547]

Thanks MWF for your opinion (yamahe/roland). I'm doing the 100 mile round trip on tuesday to try the roland & possibly the 280 yamaha although I think I can carry the memory of my CLP970 for comparison. I'll let you know when I have tried them both.

Regarding the rest of this thread; I play my CLP970 top of the range 5 years ago at home every day for practice and find it very good with a realistic feel, sound, etc.. I also play a fully restored bechstein concert grand in a concert hall every 2 weeks, a bluthner concert grand in a different recital location several times a year and a 140 year old erard in the same location. They ALL feel and sound different and for satisfaction, practising, and overall enjoyment the digital yamaha is not inferior, just easier to play. The only reason I am considering a change to the latest top of range digital is because I believe they must be even better after 5 years. By the way I bought the digital in the first place because I live in a second floor apartment so weight and neighbours were a consideration, an acoustic would not have been practical.

[mwf]

You are very welcome, and do let me know how it goes with your choice, I would like to hear your opinions on the CLP280 if you buy that one, which I have a feeling you will lean towards much more than the Roland, if you go for the 280 make sure you buy on the net, its roughly 700 pounds cheaper that way. My next piano will probably be the 280 very soon, but I am concerned about whether or not the wooden white keys on the CLP280 are worth the price increase over the CLP270, which as I have stated is exactly the same apart from the GH3 is has, so it would be nice to know your opinions/experience of the different models, maybe its wise for you to compare more specifically the CLP270/280 models side by side as it were, I would love to know your opinion on the difference in feel between the GH3/natural wood keyboard, because apparently the natural wood keyboard has better overall playability/response, and one can play faster with more accuracy and tonal response is even more improved over the GH3 Yamaha says, and other members of piano forums I have encountered. Cheers.

MWF

Just to finish-Danny elfboy I think your problem is you live in the stoneage as far as the piano is concerned, and I would love for you to post a recording of you adding tonal changes in the piano melody playing as you so confusingly state in your previous post.  My point about eveness is that on a DP the sound and touch is more likely to be even throughout the keyboard, this gives the performer more accuracy when adapting to a grand piano, uprights can be uneven in both touch and sound if not maintained properly, and alot I have played are. So one will always have that perfection on a DP, it would therefore be harder to cover up mistakes.

Your opinion counts very little to me Danny elfboy, as I have spoke to many different pianists on piano forums who own both a grand and a digital, who all agree one can easily adapt to either, and that a good digital can be very useful for certain situations such as late night practice/early morning practice. These pianists do not moan and rant about the imperfections of DP's, they just enjoy the instruments and comment on how good they are, you are so negative and picky on all the aspects of piano playing a DP cannot do its very annoying.

All your fanciful replies wont change the fact that you dont know most of what you are talking about in reality. One forum member has already stated that a very good digital piano he owns-the CLP280 is very close to his grand piano action, not as far away as you ignorantly make out. Thats why I think you live in the stone age period. But hey with you its always going to be upright over any digital because thats the type of person you are, thats your mentality.

How many pianists do you know then? you know a select minority probably who all swear that DP's like you are worthless entities. I and many others have been able to bring out subtle nuances and perceived colouring etc.. on a good DP.

Yor comments on virtuoso playing on an upright, not on a digital such as preparing for a diploma is rubbish. I played nothing but virtuoso playing on my Roland digital piano, concertos, etudes, transcriptions etc.. the piano managed them fine, no problem at all. You can play any advanced material on a DP, thats coming not just from me but others I have spoke to. Please dont reply to me anymore, you are very annoying and I have other members to speak to with the greatest of respect elfboy. Oh and I will let you know how my diploma goes, guess what I will be practicing on a digtial piano as my main preperation towards the final award, I expect to get a fellowship, I have only done grade 8, none before-just straight in at 8, self-taught on a digital piano also, so dont make ill-founded ignorant comments about how no one can acheive an advanced level of pianism through practing on digital pianos, I am the evidence, whereas you have none for anything you are ranting about.

[danny elfboy]

Just to finish-Danny elfboy I think your problem is you live in the stoneage as far as the piano is concerned and I would love for you to post a recording of you adding tonal changes in the piano melody playing as you so confusingly state in your previous post.

No you can't even read. I never mentioned tonal changes ... that's you masturbating your mind

Your opinion counts very little to me Danny elfboy, as I have spoke to many different pianists on piano forums who own both a grand and a digital, who all agree one can easily adapt to either, and that a good digital can be very useful for certain situations such as late night practice/early morning practice. These pianists do not moan and rant about the imperfections of DP's, they just enjoy the instruments and comment on how good they are, you are so negative and picky on all the aspects of piano playing a DP cannot do its very annoying.

Lol, just make something clear. I own a digital Yamaha piano and I love it
I love digital pianos and even love digital music and sequenced music

Those who said you they can adapt to both are telling you that as long as they have practiced on both the structural resistance of an acoustic and that of a digital they have no problems. I'm not even saying that you can't play virtuoso on a digital piano because clearly you can. I'm saying that you probably are not aware of what a diploma (I mean the exam diploma where you have to prepared a 3 hours concertos not only being able to show you can play demanding pieces but that you can organize them, choose them, perform them one after the other ... and where every single aspect of your piano knowledge is examined including the perfection of touch on an acoustic and the knowledge of how piano are made) entails. If you've always played on a digital, which has a completely different resistance and therefore the mechanism of playing (gravity/contraction/release) changes drastically compared to an acoustic ... you won't be able to show you've mastered this aspect when you'll have to show your technique on an acoustic piano. That's why no one get eventually a Ph.D. on piano performance by just practicing on a digital
This is independent from my personal appreciation of digital pianos and acknowleding not only how they can be useful in certain situation but the only right instrument to practice and play on in many specific situations

One forum member has already stated that a very good digital piano he owns-the CLP280 is very close to his grand piano action, not as far away as you ignorantly make out.

HE doesn't know what he's talking about
I've tried more expensive pianos than that and almost everyone I know who has a very good knowledge of technical aspect of piano acknolwedge that no kind of 10.000€  weighed action is yet able to mimin one of whatever acoustic piano
The weighed keys are still the biggest flaw of digital pianos that keep them far away from acoustic piano and I , as well as many digital piano technician, don't think this is going to change anytime soon as in order to have the same exact resistance and actrite of acoustic key action you need to add hammers and mechanical action

You can play any advanced material on a DP,

Yes ... but still that has nothing to do with my point about not going to convince the examinators that you're ready for real piano performance on acoustic piano in theaters if you're been practicing only on digital piano ... and no matter what they will see this lacking on your technique when you'll finally practice 3 hours straight of virtuoso and less virtuoso music on an acoustic alone

Oh and I will let you know how my diploma goes, guess what I will be practicing on a digtial piano as my main preperation towards the final award, I expect to get a fellowship, I have only done grade 8, none before-just straight in at 8, self-taught on a digital piano also, so dont make ill-founded ignorant comments about how no one can acheive an advanced level of pianism through practing on digital pianos, I am the evidence, whereas you have none for anything you are ranting about.

You're still missing the point (since I've never said you can't learn how to play virtuoso pieces on a digital piano ... but made a very specific point)
Anyway what's grade 8? Are you talking ABSRM? I didn't know grade 8 even touched virtuoso repertory. Anyway I'm sorry to say that you're still not the evidence
You'll be the evidence when at your 3 hours examination to get you a diploma on piano performance you'll be show you're no problem playing on an acoustic (meaning that probably somewhere along the path you'll use the wrong kind of force and resistance and will miss all the dynamics because you've get accostumed to the completely different weighed action of digital pianos)
If you won't then good for you!

[leslieb547]

MWF
Hello again,
today I finally got to try the roland hp107, in a showroom with nothing to compare directly to except my memory of my clp970 back home. result, it felt and sounded pretty much the same as my 970 and was nowhere near as good looking. the keys were mechanically quieter on release (I think mine have become noisier since new - the felt to cushion the return is noticably thicker on the roland). all in all therefore I can not justify paying out some £1200 to change, I will ask yamaha if the can supply me with a new felt strip (and instructions to fit) because, as I said at the beginning, overall I have been pleased with the yamaha.

[jepoy]

Hmmm... the debate here reminds me of what people thought of digital cameras vs traditional cameras. when digital cameras first came out, their photo quality was rather poor and grainy. now, the quality is so much better that it's harder to differentiate a traditional camera print from a digital camera print.

i find some of the arguments for an acoustic-only piano more for sentimental reasons than anything else, in the same way that some people will stick with tradition no matter what modernity has to offer.

while acoustic pianos and digital pianos will never be identical, i think that the advances in the technology has made digital pianos worthy of a pianist's time. if one decides to get a digital piano produced these days, it should not be a problem for the pianist.