On Boulez

[soliloquy]

Hi.  I was wondering what everyone's thought on Boulez was.  And since the resounding answer will probably be a more articulated (or possibly less) "blech" I just wanted to suggest that everyone here who dislikes him and has only heard his piano sonatas listen to one of his chamber works, "... explosante-fixe ..."  Just thought that any music lover would be able to spare 35 minutes to listen to this work.  It doesn't start off particularly... captivating... but I just wanted to suggest it as a good piece for anyone who has the time to listen to it.  At the very least, you'll be broadening your horizons   Basically, I wanted to see if any strong anti-Boulez proponents would listen to the ENTIRE piece, and then wanted to hear what they thought of it.  I just feel that there is a very strong bias against nothing more than his name and the first 2 minutes of his Deuxieme Sonate pour Piano.  The piece should be very easy to find through any sort of bittorrent or file-sharing program.

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So who actually took the time to listen to the piece?

[jre58591]

ive heard quite a bit of boulez. i have mixed feelings about him. i particularly enjoyed the 1st piano sonata. it was just what i could handle, i think. the second was not as well received because it was very heavy and much to take in. i need to listen to the 3rd sonata a few more times to give a response for that. the 12 notations were interesting and much easier to grasp. i enjoyed those more than the 2nd and 3rd sonatas. as far as orchestral works go, i have heard ...explosante-fixe...  and it didnt seem to progress for me. it had its moments, but it just didnt strike me. however, i did particularly enjoy sur incises. i would very much like to hear incises now that ive heard *sur* incises. i will have more comments as soon as i refamiliarize myself with some more of his pieces.

i would like to see some comments from others on this.

[ahinton]

Hi.  I was wondering what everyone's thought on Boulez was.  And since the resounding answer will probably be a more articulated (or possibly less) "blech" I just wanted to suggest that everyone here who dislikes him and has only heard his piano sonatas listen to one of his chamber works, "... explosante-fixe ..."  Just thought that any music lover would be able to spare 35 minutes to listen to this work.  It doesn't start off particularly... captivating... but I just wanted to suggest it as a good piece for anyone who has the time to listen to it.  At the very least, you'll be broadening your horizons   Basically, I wanted to see if any strong anti-Boulez proponents would listen to the ENTIRE piece, and then wanted to hear what they thought of it.  I just feel that there is a very strong bias against nothing more than his name and the first 2 minutes of his Deuxieme Sonate pour Piano.

I think that you have a very valid point here. There certainly are people who have taken against the music of Boulez based only upon experience of one or more of the piano sonatas, the last of which (assuming that there really is no fourth!), it has to be said, dates from almost half a century ago. My own initial experience of Boulez was the second and third sonatas when, in my early 'teens, I studied with someone who has been a pupil of Webern shortly before WWII and who introduced me to these works. As my general musical experience at that time was extremely limited and I accordingly had hardly any points of reference against which to assess my responses to these works, I simply accepted them as the "modern music" that my teacher said they were. As soon as I began to listen to a lot more earlier music - and also to other very different 20th century "modernist" (sorry, I loathe the term, but I think you know what I mean and why I resort to it here) music such as Varèse and Xenakis - my feelings about the Boulez sonatas became clearer, as I was developing an experiential context in which I could more viably place them - and they were very largely negative, from both a musical and a pianistic standpoint (that said, Boulez must have known enough about the kind of piano writing that worked for him, since he certainly performed the second sonata on several occasions - no mean feat, that!).

To assume that this is the summation  - or even typical - of Boulez from a 21st century standpoint is misleading to say the very least. I usually suggest to those that fall into this trap that they try Répons and both versions of Notations. It seems to me that one of the most significant changes that have come over Boulez the composer over the years is that he has come to sound more and more identifiably French, the examples of Debussy, Ravel, Roussel and Dutilleux in particular being rather more notable than was the case in the days of the piano sonatas; to what extent this has occurred because of his conducting experience (which has, of course, expanded greatly since those far-off days when composition and polemicism seemed almost enough for him!) I cannot realistically conjecture...

Best,

Alistair

[iumonito]

I would be surprised if you get a strong anti-Boulez bias.  The guy is a great musician and if you are articulate enough to formulate an answer chances are it will be a good one.  Kind of asking what you think about Beethoven.  Wells, if you like classical music chances are Beethoven is not odious to you; maybe not your favorite, but you get it.

Same thing here.  If you are into post Messien/Schoenberg/late Scriabin, chances are you get Boulez, who is, in my opinion, a remarkably straight-forward composer.

That said, I wouldn't play the second sonata as backgorund music for a date with my wife.

I like him as a writer too.  My tome, which is in Spanish and translates "Towards a musical aesthetic," shows a very insightful writer.  I particularly like his opinions on Debussy and Schoenberg.  A very good book and quite easy to read.