What is spontanaity in playing?

[henrah]

How can you keep a sense of spontanaity in your playing if you know what you are going to play next?

Has had me confused for a while 
Henrah

[opus10no2]

Great spontanious pianist, in practice, build up a palette of colouristic, rhythmic, and dynamic possibilities for each phrase.
Of course, many wouldn't work, but many would, and it's often hard to choose which one to go for in a performance, so they don't choose and leave it to the moment...and sometimes they will do a thing they hadn't even prepared in practice, but this is more dangerous.

The difficulty of this is to have a coherent and convincing 'whole' interpretation whilst also having loose and flexible moments to play around and have fun.
Keeping a sense of the forrest while you're working on one tree

[liszt-essence]

Not to think about what will come next, but to play yourself a way to it, and when you arrive, trust you instinct and feelings that come up. To breathe conciously into your feelings center, stay in the moment and play what comes up/arrives inside of you.

[mikey6]

What I'd like to know is how to observe from a single performance when a performer is 'making it up as he goes'?

[henrah]

I don't think it's possible to detect spontanaity in a performance unless you heard all of the practice sessions before it. Some often confuse spontanaity with the style of playing, like making a slight pause and then playing very jumpy and lively for example. Facial expressions will also contribute to a viewer's judgement on spontanaity in the playing, but neither of these can infallably prove that the peformer is being spontanious. For all they know the performer could have practiced the piece so many times that each time he plays it exactly the same way. That is definately not spontanaity in playing.


I guess - like emotive playing - it is only the performer who will know if they are playing this way, and the viewer's opinion on whether the performer is being spontanious is completely subjective and differs from person to person.

Cheers guys,
Henrah

[opus10no2]

One cannot play, or give 'creative birth' to anything that has some foundation in experience.

Composition may seem wholly original, but every melody our subconcious or concious comes up with in an amalgamy of things weve heard before - but just spliced together.

Therefore, it actually seems like 'spontineity' in playing, and creativity in composing, is simply more a matter of selection and choice than some 'divine mirace of creation'.

We are all gifted with different qualities of inspiration, too, of course, but when you think about it , it's more like we just simply have different tastes in the choices.

But yeah, raw cognitive(musical brain power) helps widen the selection and acuity of the ideas we draw upon.

[gruffalo]

always searching for something new everytime its played through. i usually find myself putting in a new idea in performance situations. its a habit, but a controlled habit. you cant just reform the piece during performance. never bang away at the piece unnecessarily, always picturing something whether it a story, colours, shapes an image. try to refresh the interpretation once in a while so as not to feel as the piece has gone passed its sell-by date. the last comment is referring to a piece that say you have learned and played and performed for a couple of months at least.

[mikey6]

But critics comment all the time that it "sounds like they're making it up as they go along".  And my teacher has commented on it - I was playing Scriabin 4, the 1st movt is practically an improvisation and has to sound as though it is not sure of where it wants to go.

[maxy]

It's all about throwing in a few wrong notes randomly.   

A bit more seriously: it's about creating the illusion of freshness.

[henrah]

And how could a pianist go about creating the illusion of freshness?

[m1469]

Great spontanious pianist, in practice, build up a palette of colouristic, rhythmic, and dynamic possibilities for each phrase.
Of course, many wouldn't work, but many would, and it's often hard to choose which one to go for in a performance, so they don't choose and leave it to the moment...and sometimes they will do a thing they hadn't even prepared in practice, but this is more dangerous.

The difficulty of this is to have a coherent and convincing 'whole' interpretation whilst also having loose and flexible moments to play around and have fun.
Keeping a sense of the forrest while you're working on one tree

I really like your thoughts on this, and I also appreciate your post following the one I have quoted.  I find I relate to this in terms of how I also think of spontaneity, though I don't think I could have worded it as well.  And, gruffalo's post makes me want to go through all of my "old" rep. that I love and "refresh" my interpretation .


m1469

[opus10no2]

It's the same thing in improvisation, m1469, it's impossible (without resorting to sheer randomness) to create something which is not in some way or form a recreation. Like a child, something unique, but rooted in the genetics of it's parents.

I have said before, ironically one of the things that improved one's improvisational skills most is working on repertoire(because all of the elements you improvise with are previously concieved elements).
Take a piece and mess with it, work from it's foundation and alter the harmnony, rhythm, melody, figuration - when you come up something good, repeat it and it will be remembered, and become part of your creative/recreative subconcious palette.

[opus10no2]

And how could a pianist go about creating the illusion of freshness?

Having, as I said, a great number of preconcieved options, and not choosing whice one to do until the very moment.

Working on instinct instead of intellect.

Intellect keeps the framework of a piece in check, but instinct is what brings a piece to life, and makes it literally LIVE.

Alot of people see music written over 100 years ago as somehow stale and 'dead'.
But I see it as the opposite, I see great old music as a living thing...a treasure chest waiting to be cracked open and sprung to passionate and sparkling life. The blood, passion, tears and secrets of long dead people speak to us like they're still alive.
Great music never dies as long as it stays alive in the heart's of it's listeners.

[henrah]

Great music never dies as long as it stays alive in the heart's of it's listeners.

Great sentence! It should be quoted more often

[houseofblackleaves]

Argercih.   A prime example of "spontanious" playing.

[henrah]

Argercih. A prime example of "spontanious" playing.

What is it about Argerich's playing that is spontanious?

[pianistimo]

perhaps it is hard to put into words for any artist.  they've played enough music to know what will pass for inspiration - vs trash.  if you play too fast - the ears can't take it.  if you play too slowly - it's boring.  if you play with only four dynamics - it's terraced leveled and everyone knows what to expect.  if you play with huge pallette of sounds and feelings -people say 'oh, artist - no doubt.'

but, then there's such a thing as an artists own acknowledged 'spontaneous inspiration' that comes from somewhere inside or outside that even surprises the artist as well.  not every concert probably goes perfectly for anyone.  but, there are those few that all the elements for everything to fall into place happens.  do you think it sometimes has to do with the 'aura' of the audience.  i certainly do sometimes.  some audiences you 'feel' they are for you.  for the performer.  and, others, really skeptical and are waiting to be convinced.  others, downright mean (perhaps competitive).  you know, planning blowing nose attacks and such.  all these elements to have concentration during a performance really matter to me.  i don't know if they matter to these top notch players.  i cannot concentrate without utmost quiet. 

my own personal most inspired spontaneous moments are usually at 1 am when noone but me hears it.

[imbetter]

This is a great question. For me it's pretty much a piece that I'm interested in learning; but if there's a piece that would be best suited for me at the moment, then I'll learn it along with a couple other pieces (I learn more than one piece at a time).

[opus10no2]

if you play too fast - the ears can't take it.  if you play too slowly - it's boring. 

Correctly on the latter, speaking for yourself on the former.

Music is only ever too fast to digest if your ears are too slow.


And about the audience noise factor - I'd react with an unleash.

[theodopolis]

I think the best example of spontanaiety in pianism is to listen to alternate takes of the likes of Hofmann, Godowsky and particularly Ignaz Friedman. Within a single studio sitting, you get two different interpretations of pieces like the 3rd Ballade and the Op.41-1 mazurka (My own particular favourites)

Also, try to get Cziffra's Live at Montreux (20/9/1962) concert with the Grieg Concerto and the Totentanz.

I pity the poor conductor, but the Totentanz has Cziffra at his unrestrained best.
Definitely spontaneous (and nearly combusts the piano at the same time!!)

Thanks
Theodopolis