Phrasing and melodic analysis vs motive analysis: how do they relate ?

[m1469]

This question is arising because I am currently studying the subject of counterpoint more in-depth, and I am in the process of reading "Counterpoint," 4th edition by Kent Kennan.

He is talking about qualities that make for a good melodic line, and the most common being that where the line ascends to the highest point and then descends (though there are other examples in the book that are considered less common).

I got the idea to go through all of the Bach's two-part inventions and see with my own eyes what the most common trend is in melodic line (didn't get very far until my question has come up  ), and just in looking at invention number 1, I became confused.

In analyzing this invention, one looks typically for the motive and it's counterparts.  But, what makes up a phrase ?  And, does the phrase make up the "melodic line" ?

I think I will stop there for now.


Thanks in advance,
m1469

[m1469]

Okay, I guess I will start to answer my own question .  I know that a motive can be part of a "melodic line" (whose definition is suddenly not so clear to me), and then both can be part of a "phrase".  But, as I look at official definitions from "Harvard Concise Dictionary of Music" (it's all I have right now) for the following :

Melody :  "(...) With reference to Western tonal music, the concept typically implies an orderly sucession that establishes some key and leads to a clearly recognizable conclusion in that key."

Phrase : "(...)They are typically defined by arrival at a point of at least momentary stability such as is created by a cadence."

I run into questions ... So, what, exactly, would be the melodic component of the invention no 1, for example ?  When considering the definitions above, I don't know (I always took the term melody for granted, I guess).   Aside from considering the very first two motive announcements (if you count the "motive" as starting on the "c" and then ending on the "c" -- first 7 notes), unless considering the overall structure and affect, the key that is established and then concluded in is not actually fully realized until the very end when we arrive back at C Major.  And, I know that is not all one phrase... hee hee.

And in terms of phrasing for the soprano voice, the only thing that makes sense to me as an initial phrase is the first 6 bars (which is an uncommon phrase length, though not unheard of).  It's the only official cadence so far, and that establishes us now into the key of G Major, where we began heading to nearly right away.



For now,
m1469

[counterpoint]

I would say, the concept of melodic lines, as I understand it, is something, that doesn't fit very well to polyphonic structures. In the inventions of Bach, as in his fugues, there are very small motivic unities, which are stacked one upon another to get some sort of greater "phrases", but I would not tell this a "melodic line". It's a network of motives. If you want to find something like a longer phrase, you could surely find some of them, but that's not the essence of counterpoint. The structure is much more important in polyphonic works as the "melodies".