trills

[liszmaninopin]

Does anybody have any particular techniques they find helpful for trills?  I just finished reading through La Campanella; if it taught me one thing, it's that my trills need work.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[bop...boo]

scales

[dinosaurtales]

Yes, it's true.  My trills suck.  i discovered that working on Beethoven's Apassionata.  They are getting better though.  What my teacher says to do is to concentrate on the initial *attack* of the trill, and getting out of it, but don't work so hard on the actual trill itself.  Just loosen up you hand and let the fingers sort of flutter.  It sounds miserable at first, but I think there is a method to her madness.  I suspect that at some point I will have an official lesson on trills once I get these to a point using her directions.

Try it and see what you think.

[liszmaninopin]

When you say concentrate on the initial attack, do you mean to add a bit of accent to the first note?  Perhaps I will try what you suggested a bit later.

[dinosaurtales]

Sort of.  Not like a big accent or anything, just solidly play the initial note so it doesn't sound wimpy.  i think eventually I'll get it so it won't sound like an accent, but she's trying to keep me from wimping into the trills , especially soft ones.

[chopiabin]

I agree with the "accent" on the first note. It's just so that you get the sound under the trill before it really starts. It also keeps it from sounding mushy. I guess for work I would say just do lots of trills!

[allchopin]

Does anybody have any particular techniques they find helpful for trills?  I just finished reading through La Campanella; if it taught me one thing, it's that my trills need work.

I have several recordings of La Campanella and in every one, the long trill in the middle of the piece sounds very unevem and harsh.  Im surprised at how poorly it is played, especially but such concert pianists as Kissin and Watts.

[chopiabin]

I think you have to play other notes with the same hand that's trilling, so I guess it's pretty hard to make it come out right.

[anda]

not exactly an "accent" on the first not, but a short impulse necesarily followed by relaxing all hand. also, what helps me on "speed" is a very small and constant move on the hand - the verso of the palm (i don't know what it's called) left-right, just to add the fingers. also, remember, if you have to play on a piano with a harder mechanism, you need to move you fingers more.

as an exercise, i would suggest beginning at a very slow tempo, (say quavers at about 120), and slowly increase the speed. also, try this exercise on all combination of fingers (1-2, 1-3, 1-4, 1-5, 2-3 and so on). helps if you work with both hands with exactly same fingers.

[faulty_damper]

Did someone just call me when they said trills suck?

Find a piece that has lots of trills it it, then isolate those parts.  One example is Mussorgsky's Pictures at the Exhibition: the chirping of Chicks in their shells (or whatever the title of that scene is.)  Then practice it with different fingers.  But before practicing it with different fingers, play the scene in it's entirety.  It's an interesting sound as you can imagine the chicks chirping as you play so it isn't as boring.

The worst possible trill fingering has to be the 4-5 fingers like in Beethoven's Op.111.

[scriabinsmyman]

ok, most RH trills are 3-2 trills...i find that if you place more weight from the wrist going to your 3rd finger, you have better balance.  you could also try a 3-1 fingering, or a combination switching back and forth between 3-2 and 3-1, if it's a super long trill...also use the momentum of your fingers to let each note ring out but still use minimal force...make sure your fingers stay closer to the keys, but articulate

[anda]

Find a piece that has lots of trills it it, then isolate those parts.  One example is Mussorgsky's Pictures at the Exhibition: the chirping of Chicks in their shells (or whatever the title of that scene is.)  
The worst possible trill fingering has to be the 4-5 fingers like in Beethoven's Op.111.

actually, the trills aren't a problem in mussorgski's pictures... (it's full of problems, but other problems...) the trills in this particular picture are very short (listen to richter very carefully, the trill is never more then a triple mordent because the tempo is so fast).

not exactly trill, but something like that - in con mortuis in lingua mortua, the constant tremolo of the right hand always exhaust me - you have to retain all your arm's weight because the dynamic is p or pp or ppp, and balance it in a constant tight octave tremolo, and then attacca baba yaga! that's what i call i traumatizing experience

[anda]

also, about beethoven sonatas - waldstein 3rd part, that's a good one for trills!

[faulty_damper]

Most of Beethoven's later compositions require superb trill technique.  Nothing an amateur can successfully execute, especially because the hand that trills must also play the melody line...

Op.53 requires trill for 1-2 fingers, melody played with 5-4-3 fingers.
Op.109, same for above but a bit easier to do as your hand isn't as stretched.
Op.111 requres trill for 4-5 fingers, melody with thumb.

[Clare]

I've got that killer trill right at the start of Partita 2 by Bach to conquer at the moment. It's one thing to play it OK, but when someone really knows how to play a trill super well, it just sounds so much better.
Sometimes, I've found that simply trying not to have a hang-up about a trill makes it immediately better. To just go, "Whatever," and the trill comes out relaxed and even-sounding instead of a total freak out.
Also, I found out yesterday that oscillating your hand along with your fingers helps.

[cziffra]

Chopin said:

Use three fingers for trills, 4 when practicing.

[dinosaurtales]

Most of Beethoven's later compositions require superb trill technique.  Nothing an amateur can successfully execute, especially because the hand that trills must also play the melody line...

Op.53 requires trill for 1-2 fingers, melody played with 5-4-3 fingers.
Op.109, same for above but a bit easier to do as your hand isn't as stretched.
Op.111 requres trill for 4-5 fingers, melody with thumb.

Opus 57 1st movement also has bodacious trills - one section that requires a 4-5 trill whilest the thumb and other fingers hold down notes.  Yuk!

[min@m]

Make sure the keys dont come back up too much.  When I do trills, I hardly let the keys come up.  Im playing all 6 Paganini Etudes in a concert on sat. in New York.  Important thing is to relax, and save your energy till the very end of the Campanella.  If you notice its all piano till the last two pages.  A good trill requires almost no movement.  

[jlh]

A good slower piece to practice trills on is the Haydn Variations in F minor.  One of the variations is mostly just trills.  

Also, a good way to get an even, quick, long trill using fingers like 1-3 is to use the whole hand -- rock it back and forth as if you're performing with a tambourine.  That's not to say use excessive movement, just enough to get a nice flutter effect on the trill.

If you'd like to work on the mechanics of using certain fingers in a trill-like fashion, try learning the "Black Keys" Etude in G-flat major by Chopin.

[chopiabin]

Why in the hell would you ever use three or four fingers to play a trill? That's so unnecessary. The only trill I can't do to my satisfaction is a  4/5 trill - it's really hard.

[Maui]

Hello Liszmaninopin

The point to do good trills is to do good and relaxed chords with the fingers you want to trill.
Its because the more perfect your chords are the faster you can play the keys separately with control. It applies to everything... if you want to make a faster passage you need to be able to make perfect chords with the keys of this passage (its more detailed and well-writed in Chang's Book).
Let me example:
If you want to trill 3 and 4 finger:
Work on playing faster chords only with 3 and 4 finger
Try playing G and A with 3 and 4, if you can get a perfect chord pp, try to hit the keys faster, but still as a chord.
Soon (some days or weeks, depending on your work with those fingers) your chord speed will increase, and the trill speed too.

Hope i've helped
I think you need some Changs advices :]

[bachmaninov]

Try warming up before playing a piece with trills or something like that... I've said this before, I always warm up by playing Hungarian Rhapsody No. 6... let my hands rest for about 5 minutes so there isnt TOO much adreneline  . Then my hands feel very quick and nimble... and i can easily play a Bach Prelude and Fugue (or trills) with great articulation and dexterity...

I also sometimes warm up with Scriabin Etude No. 12... That piece is a GREAT streching excercise!