here's my first try at prelude #2.

what's so funny?  the time signature is cut time.  you are counting in two instead of four.  it sounds like horses.  probably he was imagining the russians that were on horses - coming into his town in poland and reeking havoc.  everyone in disarray. 

what does the prelude remind you of?  i try to associate something.

what exactly does 'slentando' mean?

i think i like you, counterpoint.  can you play this 'big ill animal.'  i want to hear it.

thanks for helping me understand slendtando, too.  (did chopin just make that one up?  i've never seen it before).

sorry.  i have dover.  maybe there is some mistake on my part, then.  hmm.

i have paderewski for the etudes - but i found more stuff for a better price with the dover on the complete preludes.  i'm wondering if dover isn't very reliable then for precision.  also, there are a few notes i'm unsure about in some of the other preludes. 

well, what does the autograph manuscript (polish one) have to say?  paderewski wouldn't change that, would he?

i just looked to see what jstor would say about this and i found the eidlinger(sp?) preferred the french edition.  'chopin's presence in paris, which allowed him to correct proof sheets and successive impressions of the french first edition, whereas he had no control over the publication process in germany and england.  we therefore tend to priviledge the french first edition and later printings thereof.'  (this supports your view that the german - but i think also the english versions - were possibly suspect).

raoul pugno - a student of chopin's student 'george mathias' wrote an edition that had marked pedalling, etc. and tried to be truer to the autograph manuscript and way that chopin taught.

also, alfred cortot put footnotes in an edition for much of chopin's works.

how could it be a wise choice if chopin did not indicate it on the autograph?  playing it slowly does make it sound like a large sick animal.

in any case - i rest my case.  i like it lento - alla breve.

no hard feelings.  here's a little something i found from some old sheets. 

i call a truce (even if the editions themselves are the mystery of life). 

not yet.  you haven't played it for me.

definately a sick large animal.

Finally here is my version of the big, sick animal  (3:09  minutes  )   

plus the Prelude #5  (50 seconds)

Sorry, my piano is totally out of tune   

ps i figured you out counterpoint.  you're my teacher. ok.  play it the way it should be.  PLEASE.

Hehe, I didn't know, I am your teacher     

What's that "play it the way it should be.  PLEASE." ?

I play, as I think, it should be. As good as I'm able to play.

No.2 sounds nearly perfect with 3 mins to me (the tempo, not the sound of my piano  )

No. 5 should be still much faster as I played it.
Perahia plays dotted quarters around 92,  Pollini around 72.

@counterpoint: I like your no 5. This is the first time I really HEAR what's happening in this piece. Most of the pianists rush through it like mad. No 2 however is a bit extremely slow for my taste. Even if you indeed play lento you could also play in cut time. Like in no 4. Pianistimo's no 2 is definitely too fast, even for cut time. . Just my opinion

Yeah well but these imaginations don't fit to me. Btw listening to these recordings and trying these pieces out for myself I figured out that there is a sort of dies irae fragment in no 2 in the accompaniment. Hee hee. I don't know if Chopin did that on purpose or not though...? Anyway fascinating

@counterpoint: I like your no 5. This is the first time I really HEAR what's happening in this piece. Most of the pianists rush through it like mad.

Thank you so much for your support 

I think, it must be possible, to play no.5 really fast and keep it as comprehensible as in my moderate tempo. If I succeed, I will upload a better (faster) version.

No 2 however is a bit extremely slow for my taste. Even if you indeed play lento you could also play in cut time.

It's extreme slow, extreme sad and extreme hopeless.
Yes, I understand this Prelude like that. The most depressive piece of music I ever encountered.

Hi counterpoint,

I agree with pianowolfi regarding the Prelude No. 2.  It is, in fact lento, but you play it much more largo.  Also, I notice that quite often you anticipate or precede the RH by sounding the LH first rather than playing the hands together on the beat.  Just my opinion.

Hi counterpoint,

I agree with pianowolfi regarding the Prelude No. 2.  It is, in fact lento, but you play it much more largo.  Also, I notice that quite often you anticipate or precede the RH by sounding the LH first rather than playing the hands together on the beat.  Just my opinion.

It's somewhat funny for me, that people tell me, how I do play 

I know, how I am playing - the slightest change of tempo (5 percent), the extreme tempo changes (500 percent), the delay of one hand compared to the other hand, these things are not random, I am doing all this in full control and awareness. If you don't believe me - I could show you my sheet music, where I have written it in with pencil. It may sound like it's uncontrolled and random - but it is not.

As I wrote somewhere else, people often tell me "you can't play it this way!"

But I can 

Hi counterpoint,

First, I did assume correctly that you were playing the LH early rather than together with the RH, not unconsciously, but by choice.  Of that I had no doubt.

Just a bit of history.  (I'm old enough now where I remember history first hand, haha!)  The anticipation of the RH by the LH was very common practice in the 19th century, as you probably know.   The theory at the time was that by playing the LH octave or chord in isolation and in anticipation of the RH, it better established the rich harmonic underpinning in the ear of the listener, and could also be used for dramatic effect. 

Once the 20th century rolled around, there were some old school artists at the height of their careers, whose teachers harkened from the 1870s and 1880s and who instilled that same practice in their students.  So those artists carried on the tradition for awhile longer.  By the 1960s, the practice was considered somewhat archaic.  Since the 1970s, it's been classified as an undesirable mannerism in conservatories, private studios, and in recital halls alike.  I must admit, I was once guilty of it myself, but with some work, abandoned the anticipatory LH in the early 80s--and for good.  Thus, my own bias. 

You've probably read several good books on performance and pedagogy, where this mannerism is addressed.  So it's no surpise to you that this practice now enjoys a bad rap, and is quickly noticed and criticized by teachers, adjudicators, sophisticated audience members, music critics, etc.   It would almost certainly become a topic if noted in a master class as well.

On the other hand, there is also nothing wrong with being a maverick, swimming upstream, or preserving something which you believe is valuable.  So anyone here would fully agree with you that retaining the anticipatory LH is totally your call, especially if it gives you pleasure in performing music the way you like to play and hear it.   

Hi counterpoint,

Yes, I agree.  If you believe that leading with the LH enhances your performance, then you should do exactly that.