Trying Too Hard???

[kelly_kelly]

Often (at least off late), when I play a piece for my teacher with many random mistakes (random as in erratic- they change every time, so it's not a consistent technical difficulty that I haven't worked out), he tells me that I'm trying too hard. But... I thought that effort was necessary to make good music. Or must it be effortless? Or should a balance be struck? How does one find this balance?

Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I'm actually hoping that someone will understand it better than I do 

[danny elfboy]

Often (at least off late), when I play a piece for my teacher with many random mistakes (random as in erratic- they change every time, so it's not a consistent technical difficulty that I haven't worked out), he tells me that I'm trying too hard. But... I thought that effort was necessary to make good music. Or must it be effortless? Or should a balance be struck? How does one find this balance?

Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I'm actually hoping that someone will understand it better than I do 

Well ease and calm are also necessary to focus on the tecnical aspects of what you play
It's the reason why the more worried you're of making the mistake, the more mistakes you'll make. And probably your erratic mistakes are the product of your fear and tension
You should try to have sections of the piece small enough so well mastered that you after playing that section for 20 times without mistake you cannot even conceive you making a mistake. That's the real threshold of mastery: you can't make a mistake even if you want to or attempt to

[rc]

You're teacher's probably right...  Because they're not technical errors, their cause must be in your thinking as you play.  My guess is you're focusing too much on the details of your playing such as note-by-note or mechanical aspects (you shouldn't need to think of what you're fingers are doing if the technique is good, it should be subconscious).  Microscopic detail is good in practicing, but it's too much to think of in performance.

But the mind has to think of something.

What I would do is try for a broader focus.  Instead of thinking about the notes, think about the phrases, sections, overall structure.  Instead of thinking about what the fingers are doing, think of the keys, or even better the sound.

So I would agree that it's a balancing act.  I don't have a concrete answer, I'm exploring it myself, but I find that as I learn a piece my mind focuses more and more on the big picture, and to trust my subconscious to handle the details.  Thinking of the details causes overload, and weird mistakes.  

Some of the pieces that I know really well, it's like all I have to do is decide I want to play it, shake my arms and music comes out with the greatest of ease.

[Bob]

Trying too hard?  

Maybe the teacher means mentally having to focus too much, or physically straining too much.

But you should have a piece that's pushing you.

The teacher might mean it as a compliment -- You're working very hard.  A positive thing.  (although working hard, but not smart, is not a good thing of course)

Maybe the teacher means you are pushing yourself too much and make too many mistakes that way.  Too much, too soon.  In that case, just ease back -- Work on less material (or less refinement) but perfect what you do more.  That would be like walking in and playing the piece at a slower tempo, as opposed to playing it up to speed with lots of mistakes.

[ramseytheii]

Another great post from rc.  I think we don't have enough information to diagnosis your problem, but so much is in the attitude.  But the premise of your attitude has to be functional, by which I mean if indeed you are concentrating on a piece note by note that is just unreasonable, and you won't succeed.  Nobody plays like this, and nobody can.

In one of Schnabel's books someone asked him how it feels to play fast.  He said, I don't know, because I always think of the biggest possible beat - which is always slow.  I think music has to be explored on every level of the rhythm before you can achieve and settle on the biggest beat.  Having this control over the rhythm will stop useless mistakes from happening, because you can also look into the future, and think of those passages while you arep laying the present one.

Making music is not a Buddhist Zen state of mind, by which I mean passive.  Your mind has to be active, and that takes effort.  It takes effort to decide on a reasonable goal and the means to achieve it.  "Too much effort" only means, effort directed in the wrong places.  But it is still good advice nonetheless.

(Happy Birthday A.R.  )

Walter Ramsey

You're teacher's probably right...  Because they're not technical errors, their cause must be in your thinking as you play.  My guess is you're focusing too much on the details of your playing such as note-by-note or mechanical aspects (you shouldn't need to think of what you're fingers are doing if the technique is good, it should be subconscious).  Microscopic detail is good in practicing, but it's too much to think of in performance.

But the mind has to think of something.

What I would do is try for a broader focus.  Instead of thinking about the notes, think about the phrases, sections, overall structure.  Instead of thinking about what the fingers are doing, think of the keys, or even better the sound.

So I would agree that it's a balancing act.  I don't have a concrete answer, I'm exploring it myself, but I find that as I learn a piece my mind focuses more and more on the big picture, and to trust my subconscious to handle the details.  Thinking of the details causes overload, and weird mistakes. 

Some of the pieces that I know really well, it's like all I have to do is decide I want to play it, shake my arms and music comes out with the greatest of ease.

[danny elfboy]

Another great post from rc.  I think we don't have enough information to diagnosis your problem, but so much is in the attitude.  But the premise of your attitude has to be functional, by which I mean if indeed you are concentrating on a piece note by note that is just unreasonable, and you won't succeed.  Nobody plays like this, and nobody can.

In one of Schnabel's books someone asked him how it feels to play fast.  He said, I don't know, because I always think of the biggest possible beat - which is always slow.  I think music has to be explored on every level of the rhythm before you can achieve and settle on the biggest beat.  Having this control over the rhythm will stop useless mistakes from happening, because you can also look into the future, and think of those passages while you arep laying the present one.

Making music is not a Buddhist Zen state of mind, by which I mean passive.  Your mind has to be active, and that takes effort.  It takes effort to decide on a reasonable goal and the means to achieve it.  "Too much effort" only means, effort directed in the wrong places.  But it is still good advice nonetheless.

(Happy Birthday A.R.  )

Walter Ramsey

That reminds me of Abbi Whitedise
She said to focus on hitting the , main beats at tempo first
In this way you can always think ahead of what you're playing and your hand know where to move to play the next passage
The intermediate notes should be added only when the main beats have been mastered at tempo. She called this: the onion method. It's also known as "impulses practicing"

if the big muscles of the arm are trained to arrive in
different locations on the keyboard very precisely on beats (and it is
crucial to this method that it be performed with the metronome, and the the
correct fingers be written in and used), then they will carry the fingers
to those places pretty much effortlessly as the subdivisions are filled in.
The subdivisions also need to be added in sequence (Quarters only, quarters
and eighths only, quarters eighths and sixteenths, etc.) The beauty of this
method is that habits of tension in difficult passages never are allowed to
develop.

[amelialw]

haha, that randomly happens to me sometimes, actually it just happened on Monday when I was really trying too hard...I guess to play the 3rd movement of my Haydn sonata really well, and i just kept on making a really funny mistake whenever i played an ornamentation and my teacher burst out laughing cauz it was so funny.

[counterpoint]

I thought that effort was necessary to make good music. Or must it be effortless? Or should a balance be struck? How does one find this balance?

The effort should be made while practising. Effort to work out the best fingering, the articulation, pedal etc etc

When playing before an audience (or a teacher) - your playing should look easy (in general)

[thalberg]

LOL!  You make mistakes and he tells you you're trying to hard.  That's funny.  I think when I made mistakes like that my teacher thought I wasn't trying hard enough.

Next time this happens, just tell him "I'm trying as hard as I can not to try so hard."

Is he at least nice about it when he tells you this?  You could be missing notes because of a lack of comfort level with him.

[b0mbtrack]

are you practicing for too long maybe?  before i found out about this forum i would practice the same thing over and over again for way too long.  i would learn it, get it down, then keep playing and playing till i got worse at the part.  it wasn't till i found this site that i learned you are only supposed to do practice parts of songs for a very short time and then stop for some time.  that helped me get better.