Piano Forum

Piano Street Magazine:
Wagner’s Universe in a Pianist’s Hands

One of the most thrilling performances offered at Cremona Musica this year was the Wagner by Liszt recital given by Filippo Tenisci – Italian pianist, born 1998 and celebrated for his refined interpretations and expressive mastery of the Romantic repertoire. After his recital we got the chance talking to Tenici about his Wagner/Liszt project. Read more

Topic: Confused about some notation rules.  (Read 4266 times)

Offline choykaiwen

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 16
Confused about some notation rules.
on: February 06, 2007, 02:30:37 PM
I'm doing some transposition. In key of D major (C#, F#), I'm trying to write a Fb note. Should I write Fb directly, or Fbb, to indicate 2 semitones down from the key?

Offline debussy symbolism

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1853
Re: Confused about some notation rules.
Reply #1 on: February 06, 2007, 04:42:18 PM
Greetings.

You should write "Fflat" directly. Writing "f double flat" will indicate that its "f double flat," so will not be what you intend.

Offline ramseytheii

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2488
Re: Confused about some notation rules.
Reply #2 on: February 06, 2007, 05:11:07 PM
Just to let you know, it used to be the tradition that if you used an accidental ona note that was already affected by the key signature, you would have to put a natural in addition to your accidental.  So traditionally, your example would have appeared as a natural sign, then a flat, then the note.  But people don't do that anymore, you may still see it.

Walter Ramsey

Offline berrt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 293
Re: Confused about some notation rules.
Reply #3 on: February 06, 2007, 05:22:22 PM
What about the e? is it "sharpened" in that measure or could you use it instead?

Offline counterpoint

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2003
Re: Confused about some notation rules.
Reply #4 on: February 06, 2007, 05:52:45 PM
Yes, a Fb in D Major is really strange. What chord does it belong to?
If it doesn't work - try something different!

Offline Bob

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16374
Re: Confused about some notation rules.
Reply #5 on: February 06, 2007, 06:27:01 PM
You could write Fb as E to make it easier to read.  Or keep it Fb if you want the performer to understand the function better.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline debussy symbolism

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1853
Re: Confused about some notation rules.
Reply #6 on: February 06, 2007, 06:59:10 PM
Well this includes the rules or harmony. Yes, an f flat in D major is rather strange, as usually flats don't appear in keys with sharps, and writing an E is definately easier. However I see nothing wrong with simply writing an F flat . One way I see it is voice leading. Say you have to voices. One already is using an E, so the other voice will need to use an F flat. An F flat is not an E in theory. It is an enharmonic spelling, and is the same note, but in harmony those two notes, F flat and E aren't the same. It just makes composition easier to understand, otherwise it would be confusing to identify what voice is going where.

Offline ramseytheii

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2488
Re: Confused about some notation rules.
Reply #7 on: February 06, 2007, 10:25:29 PM
I'm curious where this F-flat is going.  It could be the Neapolitan of the Neapolitan; or maybe a modulation to A-flat minor.  From D major that would be risque!


Walter Ramsey

Offline jlh

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2352
Re: Confused about some notation rules.
Reply #8 on: March 10, 2007, 11:18:03 AM
Or if it is a part of a French augmented 6th chord... in that case I think it would simply be an E.  If you write an F-flat you would generally be prepping it for yet another downward motion -- perhaps to the root of the Neapolitan?
. ROFL : ROFL:LOL:ROFL : ROFL '
                 ___/\___
  L   ______/             \
LOL "”””””””\         [ ] \
  L              \_________)
                 ___I___I___/

Offline quantum

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6306
Re: Confused about some notation rules.
Reply #9 on: March 15, 2007, 04:15:58 PM
One trick I use when getting into complex accidentals is to transpose the passage into C major and see if it makes sense in that key. 

F-flat in D major would be equal to E double flat in C major. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach
For more information about this topic, click search below!

Piano Street Magazine:
New Piano Piece by Chopin Discovered – Free Piano Score

A previously unknown manuscript by Frédéric Chopin has been discovered at New York’s Morgan Library and Museum. The handwritten score is titled “Valse” and consists of 24 bars of music in the key of A minor and is considered a major discovery in the wold of classical piano music. Read more
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert
Customer Reviews