Boston GP-218 vs. Kawai RX-6

[Dreaden]

In the short run, I am likely to buy a new piano. After gathering a lot of information, I am still doubting. Most of all between the Boston and the Kawai.

Could anyone give me some advice?
What does it cost and perhaps you know some alternative brands of the same quality and price-category? (not Steinway...)

I would be most grateful.

[janice]

I have a Kawai KG-2.  I absolutely love it, and various piano tuners throughout the years have commented on what a good piano it is!  So I'm very grateful and very lucky!  Kawai used to have two lines of grands--the KG series, and the GS series.  I have no idea what the difference is, or was.  Again, I could be wrong here, but I think that those two lines were combined into one (now called the RX series).  I could be very, very wrong on this, maybe I dreamed it up or something !  I am totally unfamiliar with the Boston pianos.  I hope that nobody is offended here, and will start to send me hate mail or something , but I sort of think that Boston pianos are low quality pianos.  Just because they are made by Steinway means absolutely nothing.  Don't listen to what any salesman tells you.  This is true with ANY brand.
Here is an awesome site:  
    www.pianofinders.com/index.html
There is a ton of information here, and it is truthful, because they aren't going to try to take your money.  Good luck!--Janice

[Pianorak]

Janice: Slight correction: Boston pianos are DESIGNED but not made by Steinway. And unless I am very much mistaken they are actually produced by Kawai.  

[martin_s]

And funnily enough, Kawai pianos are a hundred times better then Boston. Steinway couldn't possibly have made a more stupid misstake, allowing their name to appear on such a crap piano as the Boston. Stay away from it!!

[dinosaurtales]

You guys are right about the Bostons.  They have some new Bostons in the practice rooms at Portland State University, and the actions are SO bad that any attempt at repeated notes will go silent!  Also they FEEL just awful.  These also sound bad, but it could be the crappy rooms they are in - hard to tell.  AVOID AVOID AVOID

[martin_s]

If you are in London at some point, you could have the pleasure to go to Steinway Practice Studios and pay some £7 per hour to practice on a out of tune Boston baby grand in a grey concrete basement with no sound isolation whatsoever. Just let me know if you're coming over and I'll be happy to give you the phone number!!  

[Dreaden]

How is it for god's sake possible that the Kawai is much better than the Boston, while they are made in the same factory?

Or is there an anti-Boston group?
Or is Boston really that bad and why?

[dinosaurtales]

Most companies that make pianos make several different models, each with its own "spec".  Sounds like Steinway has contracted with Kawai to make their Bostons (Do they also make grands, or just uprights?), and from what I can tell "spec'd" a lousy piano, god knows why.  It's most likely a marketing thing.  Those pianos are probably aimed at a specific market - my guess would be nice families who have no musicians in the family, but have a young one who wants to learn.  They know the Steinway name, and think they are getting something good.  All i know is the upright Bostons I've played were dreadful.  Never played a Kawai.

[STS]

I played the 7'2" Boston GP-218.  Those other responders have played consoles or other uprights Boston makes.  I think the best judge of the piano should be you and you should play the large grands.  The Boston is a typical Japanese piano sound.  But it has a lot more sustain and a richer tone than the Kawai.  The Boston grands are really nice.  As one who plays the Steinway piano on a regular basis,  I think the Boston has some attributes that the Kawai doesn't.  The Kawai is a good, solid piano.  But I think you should play both and choose what appeals to you.  I think you'll agree that the Boston has a richer sound.

Good luck.

HC

[Maestro]

For years the Steinway name brought many people into a particular store, but nine out of ten of them would not buy a Steinway because of the price.  For the past 25 years these stores would have a "bread and butter" line which was very often Yamaha or Kawai which were much more affordable to the general public.  Steinway felt they should benefit from drawing customers in and had the Boston built in the Kawai factory.

I talked to Ulrich Sauter, seventh generation owner of the Sauter company, after his visit to the Kawai factory in Japan.  He said he saw the same workers on the same line manufacturer Kawai and Boston down to the same keys.  There was very little difference.  Most seem to be in the result of the tone from different hammers and gives the appearance of a greater difference.

The Boston, like most Kawais and Yamahas utilize the "new age" methods of mass produced pianos, unlike the Steinway and most European pianos.  In particular, they use vacuum processed plates, Sitka spruce soundboards and soft woods like Luann in the rims.  In the better instruments, like the European ones and the special edition Kawais and Yamahas that cost above $50,000.00, you will find hard wood rims of beech or maple, sand casted plates and some specie of white spruce.  These components help produce a much superior tone that sustains, as well as creating better structural integrity to ensure greater durability.

I would suggest you look at a Petrof Grand.  It shares all of these crucial elements contained in very costly limited production German pianos, yet is offered at comparable prices of the mass produced Japanese pianos.  Larry Fine, in his latest edition of "The Piano Book" rates the Petrof grands with the Yamahs S series.  The Yamaha C series and the Kawais Rx series are all a whole level below in quality and performance.

[benthepianoboy]

You know... I was reading this post and I figured that no-one had posted anything for a few days, so I had to say my piece about this thread.  What is with the Boston Trashing? Let me tell you people something... ANY piano at a college practice room is going to sound TERRIBLE. They don't service them.... They are in small acoustically crappy rooms.... and they are pounded on by students. Of course the action is going to be bad- who at the college has 400$ to regulate an action? let alone 10 of them? Beleive me- I know these things.  Anyway....  There are signifigant differences between Kawai and Boston- Does ABS mean anything to you? It is True a boston does not have a Steinway action but it sure as hell does not have a Kawai ABS action. The Boston also has an extended tail and a low tension scale.  As far as tone goes they are also incomparable. The Bostons have a very warm and mellow sound that is consistant for all 88 keys. The Boston was introduced in 1992 by Steinway as an answer to the mid-level market. To be honest, at the price range at which they are in, there is alot of competiion from some decent Brands. The one thing to know is that they are all more similar than they are different and it all comes down to a matter of personal preference. At the price range that these pianos are in, it is hard to buy a piano that is not a good piano .  All this anti-boston dribble makes me think we have a couple of Yamaha and Kawai salesmen on this forum....  That will be two cents please...

[tosca1]

The Boston GP 218 vs Kawai RX6 has certainly generated a lot of robust discussion and there has also been much debate about  the  pros and cons of Asian built pianos on this forum.  Much of the comment is very well informed and illuminating and as the owner of a Boston GP 178 I have followed this with great interest.

I bought my Boston five years ago and I remember trying some of the smaller vertical Boston pianos which I found, quite frankly, disappointing. The largest vertical Boston was reasonably good but I can understand the negative reactions of some members to the Boston vertical pianos.  However, recently I tried the new top model in the Boston vertical range and I found it a lovely piano.

The Boston is the result of a team design from Steinway and Sons.
It is a fledgling piano and it has been evolving since 1992.  The piano market in the Boston price range is fiercely competitive and no doubt the company has been very sensitive to criticism and has made refinements where necessary. The grand piano range has been slightly modified for example and the newer instruments have mark ll stamped on the plate.

The latest grands which I tried in Melbourne over a year ago were beautiful.

Never-the-less because of the pricing (and remember that a similar size new Steinway will cost about four times as much) there are compromises in the quality of the wood and the construction.

I find the results of this more apparent in the treble than in the bass of my own piano and some treble notes have an unsatisfying "thin" quality to the sound.  

My trustworthy technician/tuner who is non partisan has a very high regard for  Boston pianos and says that they are of good quality construction and produce a very fine sound.  He considers them excellent value.

A final point about the Boston is that the Steinway and Sons dealer will give you back the  full original purchase price should you wish to upgrade to a new Steinway grand within ten years.  
At least I now have a small deposit on my new Steinway grand.  

What a lovely dream!

[slinglow]

Okay...This site has many different types of users...we are not all pianists or elitists. I am a successful audio engineer and record and mic pianos in live applications daily. I have seen all kinds and am primarily concerned with which pianos have a tone the stands out and separates itself from the balance of all the the other musical sources. Whether a piano is mass produced or made by hand by one elderly master over the course of thousands of hours...or what the hammers are made from...or ABS....whatever is irrelevant as to which pianos work best in an ensemble of many sound sources. "Mellow" or "Warm" does not mean better..."sustain" or the subjective moniker of "tone" or "timbre" means nothing if it does not combine yet separate well with other sources. If you are at a solo recital thats different...but honestly, if you are a professional that is rarely the case. So having said all that, the Steinways are overrated and live on there name and long standing in the market of yesteryear. Russian and German pianos, and I have been to both places, are superior but offer many challenges with consistency and durability. Remember, I see a different piano and reinforce it's sound EVERYDAY. Japanese pianos...primarily Yamaha pianos are the best combination of all things...integral construction, consistency, choice of size and pricing tiers, and most of all sound clear and separate sound when combined with many other instruments...the C7 being the best road pop Yamaha piano and the CF III being better suited for classical....whether classical or rock and roll, I have been at this for over 30 years and have been through 6 x 48 page passports in my career as an audio engineer seeing a different piano
everyday. So enough with the snobbery and just get in there and play what sounds best with your fellow musicians and if you ask the audio engineer, he's gonna be happiest with the Yamaha.

[iansinclair]

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread...

Interesting, but not unexpected, thread.

Before I begin, let me also suggest looking at an Estonia, if you can find one.

As a general comment, I have found that what really counts in a piano is how you, the pianist, feel about playing it.  Do you like the tone?  Do you like the way it responds to your touch?  Does it allow you to do what you want with a piano?  If so, it's a good piano for you.  If not, it doesn't matter what it costs or what name is on the fallboard or where it's made.  It's not the right piano for you.

That said, I would suggest that people who have a particular beef about a specific brand of piano -- and I don't care what brand it is -- be very specific indeed about what they, personally, don't like about it and what model or line it is to which they are referring.  Similarly, people who make statements in favour of specific brands or lines.  The remarks would then be somewhat more helpful, as well as reducing the number of comments which appear to be, I regret to say, ill-informed or worse.

I am frequently reminded of the Ford vs. Chevrolet debates of my youth, which were usually decided by a late-night meeting on a nice straight road somewhere just outside town.  Can't do that with a piano!

All that being said, I would advise that you play examples of the specific brands and models in which you are interested, and base your decision on that.  It's going to be your piano, not somebody else's, and your music!